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Can Political Correctness and Free Speech Co-exist?

Laika

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I want to ask whether you think it is possible that Political Correctness and Free Speech can co-exist in a society. The reason I ask is, not simply because it is a current issue, but because it will determine the shape of society to come.

Many on the Far-Right would characterise political correctness as a form of "cultural marxism" coming out of the Frankfurt School and the New Left in the 60's and 70's. I actually agree with them because it represents an attempt- much more limited than Mao's effort- at a cultural revolution to challange dominant values in the West which encourage discrimination against minorities, based on race, gender, sexual orientation, etc.

Whilst those who defend free speech do have noble intentions, I would argue that the unintended outcome of doing so, is that they defend the free speech of the dominant socio-economic groups to shape society in it's image. It is all very well saying that the "marketplace" will give people the freedom and oppurtunity to assert their own individual values, but this isn't true. people inherit property, and so they also inherit privallage or disadvantage that has its roots generations ago. The marketplace is competitive, and whilst it does not legally mandate it, inorder to differienate and put a price on people and their works, it discriminates. One example is how disabled people are held responsible as individuals for their disabilities, and are therefore have one of the highest rates of unemployment. A similar argument can be made that because women "chose" to get pregnant, they are not entitled to equal pay as men. another is that because of the long-term socio-economic inequalities, ethnic minorities are disadvantaged compared to whites in terms of education and that justifies them having lower earnings in lower skilled jobs. Whilst the government doesn't legally segregate them, that does lead to socio-economic segregation because we simply privatise the injustices onto individuals from the groups they were thought as before.

people would say that "sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me", that isn't true either. We spend about 3 to 4 hours a day in front of a television screen. thats 21 to 28 hours a week, or about one full day out of seven. So our sense of what is and isn't real, what is right and wrong and what goes on outside of our immediate world is therefore shaped by what we see on TV, the News, or read in the paper or see on the internet. What we see on TV matters in that it not only entertains us, but informs us as well. Advertisers know that the screen has the power to affect not only the way we think but also the way we behave. Sterotypes can re-inforce existing prejudices. Some would argue that "hollywood" has played a role in promoting the gay "lifestyle" and making it acceptable by using the power of the screen to push the "gay adgenda". The power of media goes further than this of course, as it not only affects how we percieve others, but also percieve ourselves. Being colour-blind doesn't mean treating people regardless of the colour of their skin as it can also mean that you ignore the collective disadantages or advantages a group has had when we you judge an individual member of that group.

Here's a clip from the Film Malcolm X.


Now, I'm not going to advocate Book burning. Dictionaries are good for looking up rude words. But my point is, is that when there are all these meanings hidden in our language and our collective consciousness as a legacy of when discrimination was legally enforced system of inequalities, it continues to have an affect on who we are and how we behave. I can't say I'd reccommend the methods of public humilination or harrasment that seem to go on social media but admitting that our reason is not pure and we are products of these inequalities means if we want to change them we have to be willing to change ourselves. it would certianly be better if free speech and politicaly correctness can co-exist, and that people would voluntarily change the way we see others and ourselves. But that is sort of nieve to think people wouldn't give up these ideas without a fight because they are about how we value and see ourselves and are part of our identity. So I'm not sure about the long term.

Any thoughts?
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
I want to ask whether you think it is possible that Political Correctness and Free Speech can co-exist in a society.
Sure.
But it's an uneasy coexistence.
Some will be offended, & try to censor.
Others will offend, & fight censorship.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
In my opinion, political correctness is incompatible with free speech to the extent that political correctness demands that speech offend no one. Or, conflates offending someone with harming them.
 

dust1n

Zindīq
I say go all the way or go home. First we can get rid of these pointless copyright laws. Their existence cannot be justified considering the public costs.
 

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
Can Political Correctness and Free Speech Co-exist?

I would say 'Yes' they can co-exist as it is happening now. I hope no one is suggesting limiting freedom of speech to what some groups consider 'politically correct'. And who god forbid would have the right to determine what is politically correct? Sounds like the mass brainwashing of China's Cultural Revolution. I'll hear all sides and think for myself. Some call the media 'right-wing' and at the same time others call it 'leftist'; so maybe the end result is that it is getting it right.
 

Mycroft

Ministry of Serendipity
There is a distinction between having the legal right to say something & having the moral right not to be held accountable for what you say. Being asked to apologise for saying something unconscionable is not the same as being stripped of the legal right to say it. It’s really not very ****ing complicated. Cry Free Speech in such contexts, you are demanding the right to speak any bilge you wish without apology or fear of comeback. You are demanding not legal rights but an end to debate about & criticism of what you say
 

dust1n

Zindīq
There is a distinction between having the legal right to say something & having the moral right not to be held accountable for what you say. Being asked to apologise for saying something unconscionable is not the same as being stripped of the legal right to say it. It’s really not very ****ing complicated. Cry Free Speech in such contexts, you are demanding the right to speak any bilge you wish without apology or fear of comeback. You are demanding not legal rights but an end to debate about & criticism of what you say

Mmmm, too reasonable. Try posting again louder.
 

icehorse

......unaffiliated...... anti-dogmatist
Premium Member
There is a distinction between having the legal right to say something & having the moral right not to be held accountable for what you say. Being asked to apologise for saying something unconscionable is not the same as being stripped of the legal right to say it. It’s really not very ****ing complicated. Cry Free Speech in such contexts, you are demanding the right to speak any bilge you wish without apology or fear of comeback. You are demanding not legal rights but an end to debate about & criticism of what you say

I don't know of free speech defenders who do not want to be held accountable for what they say.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
I want to ask whether you think it is possible that Political Correctness and Free Speech can co-exist in a society. The reason I ask is, not simply because it is a current issue, but because it will determine the shape of society to come.

Many on the Far-Right would characterise political correctness as a form of "cultural marxism" coming out of the Frankfurt School and the New Left in the 60's and 70's. I actually agree with them because it represents an attempt- much more limited than Mao's effort- at a cultural revolution to challange dominant values in the West which encourage discrimination against minorities, based on race, gender, sexual orientation, etc.

Whilst those who defend free speech do have noble intentions, I would argue that the unintended outcome of doing so, is that they defend the free speech of the dominant socio-economic groups to shape society in it's image. It is all very well saying that the "marketplace" will give people the freedom and oppurtunity to assert their own individual values, but this isn't true. people inherit property, and so they also inherit privallage or disadvantage that has its roots generations ago. The marketplace is competitive, and whilst it does not legally mandate it, inorder to differienate and put a price on people and their works, it discriminates. One example is how disabled people are held responsible as individuals for their disabilities, and are therefore have one of the highest rates of unemployment. A similar argument can be made that because women "chose" to get pregnant, they are not entitled to equal pay as men. another is that because of the long-term socio-economic inequalities, ethnic minorities are disadvantaged compared to whites in terms of education and that justifies them having lower earnings in lower skilled jobs. Whilst the government doesn't legally segregate them, that does lead to socio-economic segregation because we simply privatise the injustices onto individuals from the groups they were thought as before.

people would say that "sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me", that isn't true either. We spend about 3 to 4 hours a day in front of a television screen. thats 21 to 28 hours a week, or about one full day out of seven. So our sense of what is and isn't real, what is right and wrong and what goes on outside of our immediate world is therefore shaped by what we see on TV, the News, or read in the paper or see on the internet. What we see on TV matters in that it not only entertains us, but informs us as well. Advertisers know that the screen has the power to affect not only the way we think but also the way we behave. Sterotypes can re-inforce existing prejudices. Some would argue that "hollywood" has played a role in promoting the gay "lifestyle" and making it acceptable by using the power of the screen to push the "gay adgenda". The power of media goes further than this of course, as it not only affects how we percieve others, but also percieve ourselves. Being colour-blind doesn't mean treating people regardless of the colour of their skin as it can also mean that you ignore the collective disadantages or advantages a group has had when we you judge an individual member of that group.

Here's a clip from the Film Malcolm X.


Now, I'm not going to advocate Book burning. Dictionaries are good for looking up rude words. But my point is, is that when there are all these meanings hidden in our language and our collective consciousness as a legacy of when discrimination was legally enforced system of inequalities, it continues to have an affect on who we are and how we behave. I can't say I'd reccommend the methods of public humilination or harrasment that seem to go on social media but admitting that our reason is not pure and we are products of these inequalities means if we want to change them we have to be willing to change ourselves. it would certianly be better if free speech and politicaly correctness can co-exist, and that people would voluntarily change the way we see others and ourselves. But that is sort of nieve to think people wouldn't give up these ideas without a fight because they are about how we value and see ourselves and are part of our identity. So I'm not sure about the long term.

Any thoughts?
That all depends on who's making the laws and who's willing to hurt and kill over political correctness coupled with free speech.
 

ADigitalArtist

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
If I'm fired because I was dropping F bombs throughout work, should I expect to win a suit on the basis of free speech? Of course not.
Free speech seems to be entirely misunderstood in this country. If RF said you could no longer type the word 'God' but a hyphenated censor like 'G-d' was acceptable, and that you would be banned from the site should you fail to comply, you could not make a good case that RF was infringing on your free speech.

Now if congress said you could no longer type the word 'God,' then you'd have a free speech case. Because the law is specifically about government censorship of citizens. Not citizens developing social decorum you may or may not agree with. And really, most of the maligned 'politically correct' is really 'don't be a dick and continually call me something I don't want to be called.' Which you are free to continue doing, legally, but you might be ostracized for it because it's a dickish thing to do.
 

Underhill

Well-Known Member
In my opinion, political correctness is incompatible with free speech to the extent that political correctness demands that speech offend no one. Or, conflates offending someone with harming them.

I see politically corectness a bit differently. I think it is essentially another way of saying we need to be polite.

I can offend while being polite.

For example, "would you please pull that broom handle out of your bum and stop besmirching the reputations of innocent red headed step children?" could be construed as offensive, but it is polite and politically correct.

It's a talent too many people never learn.
 
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