Can Pork Products be Banned in an American City?

[George-ananda]

A city near me (Hamtramck, Michigan) became the first city in America with a Muslim majority on its city council. They passed an ordinance saying alcohol can not be sold within a certain distance of a mosque. The non-Muslim mayor of the city does not like what is going on.

I want to speculate on the hypotheticals. Could they ban the sale of alcohol altogether in the city? I think they can because I think there are dry cities/counties in America now. I want to kick it up a notch. Theoretically, can the city council ban the sale of pork products in the city? Then what?

 

[lewisnotmiller]

I would hope so.
That would be the democratic thing to do.

Whilst I broadly agree, is it the role of the city council to make these decisions? I honestly don't know how that works in the USA.
I am aware of dry zones here in Melbourne based on council rules, although that relates to the sale of alchohol, rather than consumption.

 

[George-ananda]

I would hope so.
That would be the democratic thing to do.

Can we in effect be placed under Islamic laws through the democratic process? I suppose anything not unconstitutional can be made law.

 

[George-ananda]

Whilst I broadly agree, is it the role of the city council to make these decisions? I honestly don't know how that works in the USA.
I am aware of dry zones here in Melbourne based on council rules, although that relates to the sale of alchohol, rather than consumption.

Well do you think a Muslim Majority city government in Australia could ban the sale of pork products in their city?

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Well do you think a Muslim Majority city government in Australia could ban the sale of pork products in their city?

I have no idea. Our councils generally have pretty limited power, so I suspect they could not.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

We were referring to consumption.
I don't see why a city council shouldn't be able to prohibit sales of specific products if deemed unacceptable.

My question was more a legal one, I think. I suspect the sort of rules you are talking about here (in terms of the pork example, less so alchohol, where there are specific provisions) would fall under State Government, not local councils.
So you'd need a Muslim Majority state, I think. Same concept, different scope.

For what it's worth, I don't want laws being created for religious reasons. Regardless of the balance of power.

 

[Sunstone]

You might be able to sue the city council on the grounds that they can show no over-riding or compelling government interest in banning pork sales and consumption, and are therefore unnecessarily infringing on your own rights to eat the stuff.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I also don't enjoy laws being created for religious reasons. However, I also think the people should decide what should/shouldn't be allowed based on their own ethical beliefs.

Except that's not how American law works. We're not a pure democracy. That's why all those state laws banning gay marriage that were approved by the voters were thrown out by the courts, including the Supreme Court.

 

[Sunstone]

I don't see how sales would infringe your right to eat stuff, you could still do so, you would just have to go to the next smalltown/city to get some.

I'm not a lawyer, and I have no expertise in this area of the law. But it seems to me I've heard of governments being successfully sued on the grounds that they could not show an over-riding or compelling interest in restricting people's freedoms via some law or regulation. But that's just my memory. My memory has been known to be wrong.

Need a lawyer to explain this. Where's @gsa ?

 

[columbus]

I'm sure my town already has such a zoning ordinance about alcohol sales. I think it refers to schools and houses of worship. That would certainly include a mosque.
The pork ban would be fun. I'm already thinking about various forms of "civil disobedience as performance art".

Tom

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

You might be able to sue the city council on the grounds that they can show no over-riding or compelling government interest in banning pork sales and consumption, and are therefore unnecessarily infringing on your own rights to eat the stuff.

By the same token, I don't think the city can ban sales of pork without an overriding/compelling public interest. Alcohol is subject to such regulation, although I'm not sure that the town's ban on selling alcohol near a mosque would stand a court challenge.

 

[Sunstone]

By the same token, I don't think the city can ban sales of pork without an overriding/compelling public interest. Alcohol is subject to such regulation, although I'm not sure that the town's ban on selling alcohol near a mosque would stand a court challenge.

Public interest! That was the phrase I wanted. But my mind had a brain freeze and all I could come up with was "government interest". Glad you knew the right phrase!

 

[Nietzsche]

I wasn't referring to American democracy, I was referring to an ideal direct-democracy.

No such thing.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

I'm not a lawyer, and I have no expertise in this area of the law. But it seems to me I've heard of governments being successfully sued on the grounds that they could not show an over-riding or compelling interest in restricting people's freedoms via some law or regulation. But that's just my memory. My memory has been known to be wrong.

Need a lawyer to explain this. Where's @gsa ?

You are on track there. I'm not a lawyer, but I teach about public policy, and many local policies and even state laws (as well as federal and state regulations) have been overturned because of a lack of a clear and compelling reason to protect public health or safety.

edit: or other public interest.

 

[Sunstone]

@Alceste used to say she wouldn't eat pork because she couldn't stand the thought of eating something that was at least as smart as half the human population of North America. I kind of agree with her on that one.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

Alceste used to say she wouldn't eat pork because she couldn't stand the thought of eating something that was at least as smart as half the population of North America. I kind of agree with her on that one.

lol. In high school biology, I had no trouble dissecting the fetal pig, but doing so with a rat was not possible; I think it's because I feel more kinship with the one than the other...

which is strange on further reflection, because I had no trouble at all skinning, etc., rabbits and squirrels and so on...

 

[Nietzsche]

@Alceste used to say she wouldn't eat pork because she couldn't stand the thought of eating something that was at least as smart as half the human population of North America. I kind of agree with her on that one.

I find her assessment to be woefully optimistic.

 

[allfoak]

Swine and Dine: Federal prisons reverse pork menu ban after outcry

The Federal Bureau of Prisons may have bitten off more than it could chew by banning pork from prison menus earlier this month -- and apparently has reversed course on the decision.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...isons-reverse-pork-menu-ban-after-outcry.html

 

[Revoltingest]

A city near me (Hamtramck, Michigan) became the first city in America with a Muslim majority on its city council. They passed an ordinance saying alcohol can not be sold within a certain distance of a mosque. The non-Muslim mayor of the city does not like what is going on.

This has precedence around churches too.
I don't like it, but Muslims don't differ from Xians in this respect.

I want to speculate on the hypotheticals. Could they ban the sale of alcohol altogether in the city? I think they can because I think there are dry cities/counties in America now. I want to kick it up a notch. Theoretically, can the city council ban the sale of pork products in the city? Then what?

I'd expect the state to ban such acts.
They stepped in when Ann Arbor flirted with rent control.
To prevent that disaster, the state made rent control illegal.

 

[George-ananda]

This has precedence around churches too.
I don't like it, but Muslims don't differ from Xians in this respect.

I'd expect the state to ban such acts.
They stepped in when Ann Arbor flirted with rent control.
To prevent that disaster, the state made rent control illegal.

Here, I thought you would go all Bacon-hadist on 'em.......no messing with courts and lawmakers