Can someone be a Muslim Jew?

[Clara Tea]

CAN SOMEONE BE A MUSLIM JEW?

I ran into this assertion while reading an article: "I think of myself as a Muslim Jew" The author examines the story of Moses in both the Quran and Torah seeking to show lack of contradiction: The context of my question is this OpEd from a Reform Rabbi:

Quran And Torah: The Story Of Moses – OpEd

There are some interesting points in that article:

Islam teaches clearly that God does not have just one people or one true religion. Rather, God chose not to create human beings as one nation or with only one religion so that each religion could compete with all the others in order to see which religion produces the highest percentage of moral and loving people; and which people best embody in their personal and communal lives the moral teachings of their prophet.

As it is written in the Quran [5.48] “For every one of you did We appoint a law and a way. If Allah had pleased He would have made you one people, but (He didn’t) that He might test you in what He gave you. Therefore compete with one another to hasten to virtuous deeds; for all return to Allah, so He will let you know that in which you differed.”

His asserts:

We see again that the differences between the Quran and the Torah are the result of different lessons being derived from the same events. These different lessons are not in opposition to one another; they complement and enrich each other.

Would you accept the answer "yes and no."

 

[Clara Tea]

Just as a side note, the instance of Jews being anti-Semitic is so present that there is a specific term for it

Self-hating Jew - Wikipedia

Some Jewish kids were in Hitler's youth...they learned to be good Nazis, and, in some cases, turned in their parents, and that often caused the death of their parents.

 

[firedragon]

What about the treatment of Lot in the Torah? It's a major difference in the Quran isn't it?

Of course. There are major differences in the Qur'an.

 

[rosends]

Some Jewish kids were in Hitler's youth...they learned to be good Nazis, and, in some cases, turned in their parents, and that often caused the death of their parents.

Most times, the term self-hating jew is applied to someone who is angry with his own identity and develops a hatred, not someone who is taught hate for Jews in the abstract so his own membership is part fo the equation.

 

[firedragon]

I ran into this assertion while reading an article: "I think of myself as a Muslim Jew" The author examines the story of Moses in both the Quran and Torah seeking to show lack of contradiction: The context of my question is this OpEd from a Reform Rabbi:

Quran And Torah: The Story Of Moses – OpEd

There are some interesting points in that article:

Islam teaches clearly that God does not have just one people or one true religion. Rather, God chose not to create human beings as one nation or with only one religion so that each religion could compete with all the others in order to see which religion produces the highest percentage of moral and loving people; and which people best embody in their personal and communal lives the moral teachings of their prophet.

As it is written in the Quran [5.48] “For every one of you did We appoint a law and a way. If Allah had pleased He would have made you one people, but (He didn’t) that He might test you in what He gave you. Therefore compete with one another to hasten to virtuous deeds; for all return to Allah, so He will let you know that in which you differed.”

His asserts:

We see again that the differences between the Quran and the Torah are the result of different lessons being derived from the same events. These different lessons are not in opposition to one another; they complement and enrich each other.

Yes. Of course.

 

[Clara Tea]

An Israelite need not be a Jew?

"Israelite, descendant of the Hebrew patriarch Jacob, whose name was changed to Israel after an all-night fight at Penuel near the stream of Jabbok (Genesis 32:28). In early history, Israelites were simply members of the Twelve Tribes of Israel. After 930 BCE and the establishment of two independent Hebrew kingdoms in Palestine, the 10 northern tribes constituting the kingdom of Israel were known as Israelites to distinguish them from the southern kingdom of Judah. The northern kingdom was conquered by the Assyrians in 722/721 BCE, and its population was eventually absorbed by other peoples."
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Israelite
Understand?

Regards

After Britain liberated (or conquered) the land that is now Israel from the Ottoman Empire in 1917, it eventually became the homeland for Jews, after WW II (when it was clear that Jews probably should not continue to live in Germany). Jews were originally from that region (modern Israel), but they were not in charge of it. Yet, many of the structures bear the mark (shofar...rams horn) of the Jewish people, indicating that they were built by Jews. Palestineans have been sanding off the shofar marks in an attempt to hide signs of Jewish occupation of Israel and Judah. Palestineans have also tried to destroy archaeological artifacts to hide signs of Jewish occupation of Israel and Judah.

But, the UN set up Israel to be more than the homeland of Jews, and under the control of Jews, they also set it up for Moslems, Christians, and Palestineans (even if, by chance, they were not Moslem). So, to be an Israeli, any of the above could be. More modern decisions of the UN have said that Jews don't have a claim on Israel. Jews are heavily outnumbered in votes at the UN, since the many non-Jewish naitons of the Middle East vote against them. Only Israeli's staunch alliance with the United States have allowed them to remain.

Definition of ISRAELITE

However, the term "Israelite" is different than the term "Israeli" (as you pointed out). An Israelite is a descendent of Jacob (so Jewish) according to Webster's Dictionary (link above).

I just wanted to fill in a bit more of the details. But, I agree with you.

 

[Clara Tea]

After Britain liberated (or conquered) the land that is now Israel from the Ottoman Empire in 1917, it eventually became the homeland for Jews, after WW II (when it was clear that Jews probably should not continue to live in Germany). Jews were originally from that region (modern Israel), but they were not in charge of it. Yet, many of the structures bear the mark (shofar...rams horn) of the Jewish people, indicating that they were built by Jews. Palestineans have been sanding off the shofar marks in an attempt to hide signs of Jewish occupation of Israel and Judah. Palestineans have also tried to destroy archaeological artifacts to hide signs of Jewish occupation of Israel and Judah.

But, the UN set up Israel to be more than the homeland of Jews, and under the control of Jews, they also set it up for Moslems, Christians, and Palestineans (even if, by chance, they were not Moslem). So, to be an Israeli, any of the above could be. More modern decisions of the UN have said that Jews don't have a claim on Israel. Jews are heavily outnumbered in votes at the UN, since the many non-Jewish naitons of the Middle East vote against them. Only Israeli's staunch alliance with the United States have allowed them to remain. This might have been one of the factors that motivated the 911 attack.

Definition of ISRAELITE

However, the term "Israelite" is different than the term "Israeli" (as you pointed out). An Israelite is a descendent of Jacob (so Jewish) according to Webster's Dictionary (link above).

I just wanted to fill in a bit more of the details. But, I agree with you.

 

[Clara Tea]

Most times, the term self-hating jew is applied to someone who is angry with his own identity and develops a hatred, not someone who is taught hate for Jews in the abstract so his own membership is part fo the equation.

Thank you for being in this forum. As a Jew, you can understand the religion (Jewish) from which both the Christian and Muslim faiths originated. You "might" be able to speak modern Hebrew (which is quite different from ancient Hebrew, but at least you have a chance to understand it). You understand the subtleties of the religion, and how it has been changed by the spin-off religions.

I have always maintained that Christians and Muslims should attend a Jewish temple to understand the foundation and formation of their religions.

 

[rosends]

Thank you for being in this forum. As a Jew, you can understand the religion (Jewish) from which both the Christian and Muslim faiths originated. You "might" be able to speak modern Hebrew (which is quite different from ancient Hebrew, but at least you have a chance to understand it). You understand the subtleties of the religion, and how it has been changed by the spin-off religions.

I have always maintained that Christians and Muslims should attend a Jewish temple to understand the foundation and formation of their religions.

I try not to speak modern Hebrew simply because I'm bad at it -- my grammar is stilted and the vocabulary is not up to date. My daughters are much better at it (as is my sister and her family, my nieces and nephews etc). I do understand it when I listen, though, so the Israeli Hebrew teachers here in school can speak to me in Hebrew. I just answer in English. Everybody wins.

Biblical Hebrew, Mishnaic Hebrew and other flavors are all things I'm familiar with and are sueful when praying, learning and studying the religion and its texts.

 

[danieldemol]

Yeah. But it's wrong. Just because some one invented a propaganda term, no one needs to worship it like God's word.

Do you worship God's alleged word? Shirk! (just joking, so long as it doesn't harm humans in a demonstrable way there is nothing wrong with shirk that i know of).

In my opinion.

 

[firedragon]

Do you worship God's alleged word? Shirk! (just joking, so long as it doesn't harm humans in a demonstrable way there is nothing wrong with shirk that i know of).

In my opinion.

Do some research reading the posts. Absolutely irrelevant.

Thanks.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Same tribe (Hominini, Abrahamic), different genera (Homo, Pan; Jews, Muslims).

 

[Flankerl]

Some Jewish kids were in Hitler's youth...they learned to be good Nazis, and, in some cases, turned in their parents, and that often caused the death of their parents.

[citation_needed]

Thank you for being in this forum. As a Jew, you can understand the religion (Jewish) from which both the Christian and Muslim faiths originated. You "might" be able to speak modern Hebrew (which is quite different from ancient Hebrew, but at least you have a chance to understand it). You understand the subtleties of the religion, and how it has been changed by the spin-off religions.

Where does this idea come from that Jews don't speak Hebrew, specifically "Ancient Hebrew"?

I have always maintained that Christians and Muslims should attend a Jewish temple to understand the foundation and formation of their religions.

How about no.

 

[sun rise]

There are actually rules and authorities in language. Yes doesn't mean no. Recognize doesn't mean reject and it won't just because I start using it that way. Coopting a term does sometimes happen (though this is more a case of undermining it from its origin) but coopting happens when people give up on using terms the way they were intending. As I am not giving up on that, I see no reason to acknowledge that it is a fair accompli.

Ai don't think that a native of Brazil has to worry about "Anti-American" sentiment even though "America" includes both North and South America.

Tagging onto that, there were many who fought against the word "hacker" being synonymous with criminal back in the day. They lost but someone captured the start of the transition: The Original Hacker's Dictionary

HACKER [originally, someone who makes furniture with an axe] n. 1. A person who enjoys learning the details of programming systems and how to stretch their capabilities, as opposed to most users who prefer to learn only the minimum necessary. 2. One who programs enthusiastically, or who enjoys programming rather than just theorizing about programming. 3. A person capable of appreciating hack value (q.v.). 4. A person who is good at programming quickly. Not everything a hacker produces is a hack. 5. An expert at a particular program, or one who frequently does work using it or on it; example: "A SAIL hacker". (Definitions 1 to 5 are correlated, and people who fit them congregate.) 6. A malicious or inquisitive meddler who tries to discover information by poking around. Hence "password hacker", "network hacker".

 

[Fallen Prophet]

I ran into this assertion while reading an article: "I think of myself as a Muslim Jew" The author examines the story of Moses in both the Quran and Torah seeking to show lack of contradiction: The context of my question is this OpEd from a Reform Rabbi:

Quran And Torah: The Story Of Moses – OpEd

There are some interesting points in that article:

Islam teaches clearly that God does not have just one people or one true religion. Rather, God chose not to create human beings as one nation or with only one religion so that each religion could compete with all the others in order to see which religion produces the highest percentage of moral and loving people; and which people best embody in their personal and communal lives the moral teachings of their prophet.

As it is written in the Quran [5.48] “For every one of you did We appoint a law and a way. If Allah had pleased He would have made you one people, but (He didn’t) that He might test you in what He gave you. Therefore compete with one another to hasten to virtuous deeds; for all return to Allah, so He will let you know that in which you differed.”

His asserts:

We see again that the differences between the Quran and the Torah are the result of different lessons being derived from the same events. These different lessons are not in opposition to one another; they complement and enrich each other.

Only if you reject the words of Muhammad - because he hated Jews.

 

[sun rise]

Only if you reject the words of Muhammad - because he hated Jews.

The voice of ignorance.

 

[Fallen Prophet]

The voice of ignorance.

You're right - I should believe you over my lying eyes.

 

[paarsurrey]

After Britain liberated (or conquered) the land that is now Israel from the Ottoman Empire in 1917, it eventually became the homeland for Jews, after WW II (when it was clear that Jews probably should not continue to live in Germany). Jews were originally from that region (modern Israel), but they were not in charge of it. Yet, many of the structures bear the mark (shofar...rams horn) of the Jewish people, indicating that they were built by Jews. Palestineans have been sanding off the shofar marks in an attempt to hide signs of Jewish occupation of Israel and Judah. Palestineans have also tried to destroy archaeological artifacts to hide signs of Jewish occupation of Israel and Judah.

But, the UN set up Israel to be more than the homeland of Jews, and under the control of Jews, they also set it up for Moslems, Christians, and Palestineans (even if, by chance, they were not Moslem). So, to be an Israeli, any of the above could be. More modern decisions of the UN have said that Jews don't have a claim on Israel. Jews are heavily outnumbered in votes at the UN, since the many non-Jewish naitons of the Middle East vote against them. Only Israeli's staunch alliance with the United States have allowed them to remain.

Definition of ISRAELITE

However, the term "Israelite" is different than the term "Israeli" (as you pointed out). An Israelite is a descendent of Jacob (so Jewish) according to Webster's Dictionary (link above).

I just wanted to fill in a bit more of the details. But, I agree with you.

"However, the term "Israelite" is different than the term "Israeli" (as you pointed out). An Israelite is a descendent of Jacob (so Jewish) according to Webster's Dictionary (link above).

I just wanted to fill in a bit more of the details. But, I agree with you."

Thanks for agreeing with me.
An Israelite need not be a Jew. Right?

Regards

 

[IndigoChild5559]

"However, the term "Israelite" is different than the term "Israeli" (as you pointed out). An Israelite is a descendent of Jacob (so Jewish) according to Webster's Dictionary (link above).

I just wanted to fill in a bit more of the details. But, I agree with you."

Thanks for agreeing with me.
An Israelite need not be a Jew. Right?

Regards

Israelite, Hebrew, and Jew are used interchangably. So an Israelite IS a Jew, and also a hebrew.

It is possible to be Israeli and not be a Jew. There are quite a few arab-Israelis

 

[paarsurrey]

Israelite, Hebrew, and Jew are used interchangably. So an Israelite IS a Jew, and also a hebrew.

It is possible to be Israeli and not be a Jew. There are quite a few arab-Israelis

There are many many more as in Jesus time only two tribes of Israelites lived in Judea and the rest 10 tribes were in exile and lived as diaspora in other eastward countries. In Kerala, India also lived some of them. They got converted to Syriac Christianity by Thomas the Didymus but they were Israelites in origin. Right?

Regards