Can someone explain the Trinity please...

[lostwanderingsoul]

Matt 3:16 talks about the Spirit of God. God Himself IS a spirit and He is holy. this does not mean that there is a separate part of God called the Holy Spirit it means that God's own spirit is holy. men also have spirits but they are not holy. no one would say that a man's spirit is a separate "being" or "person". a man's spirit is what gives him life and existence. God's spirit what gives Him power and not a separate part of God. the false trinity idea forever limits God to three "persons" but God says those who are worthy will be adopted as His children so the God family may someday contain many "persons". the trinity idea goes back to pagan times and is intended to hide God's true character and prevent people from seeing that they can become part of God's family just like Jesus

 

[outhouse]

. God Himself IS a spirit

Could you define what a spirit is?

and He is holy

Can you define holy?

men also have spirits

Do they now?

How about men have consciousness/thought, and ancient people had no clue of this concept and attributed a spirit concept to ones thoughts in a mythological definition.

but they are not holy

Many normal men are considered holy, I think your trying to create your own definition here.

a man's spirit is what gives him life and existence

No, that is unsubstantiated rhetoric and has no basis outside mythology.

God's spirit what gives Him power and not a separate part of God

And what power are you even talking about. All power can factually be measured.

the false trinity idea

False to you, not to most christians

the trinity idea goes back to pagan times

When Christianity started the were considered pagan, Judaism started from pagan traditions.

The trinity was a product of trying to solve the monotheistic problem that evolved by adding and defining a son of god to the godhead equation.

This has nothing to do with pagan religious practices or traditions.

and is intended to hide God's true character and prevent people from seeing that they can become part of God's family just like Jesus

No one was hiding anything here. They had to redefine god again, after they finally defined Jesus relationship to the god concept and the conclusion was the trinity concept

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

well, there are two possibilities. either God is forever limited to three person by the trinity idea. or God will add adopted children to His family and will consist of maybe millions of members. since the Bible says He will add children to His family I prefer to believe that but of course most people do not believe the Bible so they believe what they want

 

[outhouse]

well, there are two possibilities.

Are there now?

I think your doing what most people have done for thousands of years, and that is to define the concept as you feel.

either God is forever limited to three person by the trinity idea

God for most Christians is limited to the godhead

or God will add adopted children to His family and will consist of maybe millions of members.

Which does not negate the first choice above.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

this just goes to show that religion is influenced by Satan because people ignore the true teachings of the Bible and believe false ideas spread by the pagan influenced church

 

[outhouse]

this just goes to show that religion is influenced by Satan

No it does not.


I don't think you could define the concept and I'm not sure you have a clue how it evolved over a thousands years, and by whom.

because people ignore the true teachings of the Bible

And ONLY you know what is the true teaching

believe false ideas spread by the pagan influenced church

According to you? what credentials in theology do you carry?

 

[marcosmasliaev]

I believe that is like saying you know the moon is made of green cheese. The evidence does not support your view.

People believes in what they want, following their level of understanding. Evidence? Which one?

 

[Mountain_Climber]

Matt 3:16 talks about the Spirit of God. God Himself IS a spirit and He is holy. this does not mean that there is a separate part of God called the Holy Spirit it means that God's own spirit is holy. men also have spirits but they are not holy. no one would say that a man's spirit is a separate "being" or "person". a man's spirit is what gives him life and existence. God's spirit what gives Him power and not a separate part of God. the false trinity idea forever limits God to three "persons" but God says those who are worthy will be adopted as His children so the God family may someday contain many "persons". the trinity idea goes back to pagan times and is intended to hide God's true character and prevent people from seeing that they can become part of God's family just like Jesus

You have it right.

Who listens to talking outhouses, anyway.

 

[Yoshua]

Matt 3:16 talks about the Spirit of God. God Himself IS a spirit and He is holy. this does not mean that there is a separate part of God called the Holy Spirit it means that God's own spirit is holy. men also have spirits but they are not holy. no one would say that a man's spirit is a separate "being" or "person". a man's spirit is what gives him life and existence. God's spirit what gives Him power and not a separate part of God. the false trinity idea forever limits God to three "persons" but God says those who are worthy will be adopted as His children so the God family may someday contain many "persons". the trinity idea goes back to pagan times and is intended to hide God's true character and prevent people from seeing that they can become part of God's family just like Jesus

Hi lost,
Trinitarian doctrine is one God exists in three persons, they appeared to us as the Father, the Son Jesus and the Holy Spirit. The Scripture said this, and it was not me.
There is Jesus, He is not the Holy Spirit because He said I will give you another Helper. We see Father and Son in distinction. How could you explain this if there is really non-existence of the three?

Matthew 3:16
16. And Jesus (Son), when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God (Holy Spirit) descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
17. And lo a voice from heaven (Father), saying, This is my beloved Son (Jesus), in whom I (Father) am well pleased.

John 14:16-19
16. "And I (Jesus) will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper (Holy Spirit), that He may abide with you forever,
17. "even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you.
18. "I (Jesus) will not leave you orphans; I (Jesus) will come to you.
19. "A little while longer and the world will see Me no more, but you will see Me. Because I (Jesus) live, you will live also.

Thanks

 

[outhouse]

Who listens to talking outhouses, anyway.

People pay for the class I lecture in.


What education do you have on any historical biblical topic?

 

[outhouse]

The Scripture said this, and it was not me.

No the scripture does no say that.

People took passages like you are, and it helped them develop the trinity doctrine that is not taught anywhere in the NT.

Christianity had a problem, they had to retain monotheism after adding another deity to the mix [jesus]

They also took the god concept and developed the spirit of god as a separate entity. Judaism never separated the two he way Christians defined it.

If you follow the trinity concept there is a clear path of how it evolved in doctrine, starting with Pauls vague statements and continuing on and advancing greatly under Tertullian and others. There was no real conclusion in doctrine until after the council of Nicea redefined Jesus relationship with the father. Which amounted to a court hearing where Constantine demanded unity of all, and those who were not in unity were going to pay a severe price.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

Very interesting that the idea of the trinity did not really become clear until the council of Nicea. by this time many pagan ideas that the apostles never heard of had sneaked into the false church influenced by Satan that took over the name Christian but was nothing like the religion of the 1st century apostles
Yoshua mentions Matt 3:16 where Jesus saw the spirit of God descending like a dove. this does not prove the spirit was a separate being but just an example of God's power. in many places the Spirit is described as a wind or loud sound. if God blew out His power in a big breath don't you think you would hear a sound a see a wind? Then John 14:17 talks about the Spirit of truth. Is that a different spirit? Can't God's spirit be one of power and truth and honesty, etc. these are not separate beings and nothing in the Bible or early 1st century church makes them separate. it is when false ideas arise after a couple hundred years that the trinity idea becomes official. and with the power of the Roman Empire enforcing it people had to accept it or face death

 

[outhouse]

Very interesting that the idea of the trinity did not really become clear until the council of Nicea. by this time many pagan ideas that the apostles never heard of had sneaked into the false church influenced by Satan that took over the name Christian but was nothing like the religion of the 1st century apostles

Claiming satan did anything is not a historical statement that is credible. It amounts to desperation in the light you cannot bring any credible sources to support your position.

Yoshua mentions Matt 3:16 where Jesus saw the spirit of God descending like a dove

No. Yeshua did not mention anything. ONLY the unknown author/s of Matthew wrote such a thing.

I bet you don't even know Jesus real name as used in Galilee.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

the RF poster using the name Yoshua posted the quote about the spirit descending like a dove. just because something may have looked like a dove does not make it a separate part of God.
i don't think any of us were there at Galilee so we all have to guess at the exact pronunciation of anyone's name from that time

 

[outhouse]

i don't think any of us were there at Galilee so we all have to guess at the exact pronunciation of anyone's name from that time

Your in error in the fact we have an educated guess.

But my point was, you don't even know the educated guess.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

how many people go to Las Vegas with an educated guess about gambling and go home broke. an educated guess about something that happened 2000 years ago ??? besides maybe it is not the exact names that are important but the ideas taught by those people that are important. there is no record of first century Christians believing in a trinity, or going to Heaven, or an immortal soul. these are all ideas, along with many more, that were added later after the influence of the early apostles had faded

 

[outhouse]

n educated guess about something that happened 2000 years ago ???

Were not blind here. Do you understand what cultural and social anthropology is?

besides maybe it is not the exact names that are important but the ideas taught by those people that are important.

No one said the names were important, its just an example of how little you actually know about a man you place central importance of your own life in.

along with many more, that were added later after the influence of the early apostles had faded

Sorry but the first followers of Jesus from Galilee never write a single word about him.


Every bit of the NT was written by people far removed from his life. John, Mark and Matthew and Luke are not the authors of the books.

The only author we know about with any certainty is Paul, and only 7 ish of his epistles are thought to have originated from his community. Even then these were community effort's not just from Pauls hands. And Paul never knew or heard or witnessed Jesus while alive.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

thanks, outhouse, I appreciate your comments and wish there was some place to study some of the things you know. I believe you are an honest and sincere person

 

[Awoon]

Persons are visible, touchable, physical, colorable. No trinity God fits those.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

well since God is a spirit, He is not physical. the word person is referring to a being, not necessarily physical