Can someone explain the Trinity please...

[Desert Snake]

In peter it says baptism also now saves us if that is not a command I don't know what is, if you want to be saved I mean

No, the baptism ceremony itself doesn't do anything. Again, there is no specific church or person designated as authoritative in baptism; waiting for the caveat, my friend.

 

[katiemygirl]

Right, but that is a very broad statement. Just because someone is baptized, for example, doesn't mean they are saved. That's my point. It isn't as simple as saying someone is a ''Christian'' in some general sense.
Anyways, this is sort of off topic. No one is saying everyone is the body of Christ. Did I misunderstand you? Not sure what your point is..

You're right. Anyone can get wet. But Jesus said you must be born of water AND THE SPIRIT. The water by itself doesn't get anyone into the kingdom, though Jesus did command that we be immersed. It's the Holy Spirit who circumcises the heart.

 

[katiemygirl]

It sounds like y'all are trying to make the kingdom of God a tangible earthly kingdom sorry to tell but Jesus said my kingdom is not of this world. Flesh and blood cannot inherit Kingdom of God that is why we have to be born of spirit

Amen! The kingdom is here now, and it is spiritual. There has never been nor will there ever be an earthly kingdom. "My kingdom is not of this world" is ignored totally. So is "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God."

 

[Desert Snake]

You're right. Anyone can get wet. But Jesus said you must be born of water AND THE SPIRIT. The water by itself doesn't get anyone into the kingdom, though Jesus did command that we be immersed. It's the Holy Spirit who circumcises the heart.

John baptizes with water, Jesus with the Spirit.

 

[Desert Snake]

Amen! The kingdom is here now, and it is spiritual. There has never been nor will there ever be an earthly kingdom. "My kingdom is not of this world" is ignored totally. So is "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God."

There is a kingdom of this world. Jesus rules it. The body of Christ, ie Xians, are the subjects. It's both earth and Heaven that Jesus rules, that's why Satan doesn't have power over Xians.

 

[moorea944]

Amen! The kingdom is here now, and it is spiritual. There has never been nor will there ever be an earthly kingdom. "My kingdom is not of this world" is ignored totally. So is "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God."

"My kingdom is not of this world" The kingdom is not from man, it is God's kingdom. That is why Jesus says it like that. It will be an actual kingdom.
"Thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth...."

 

[Nada]

READ THIS

Then tell me who dresses more like Jesus? AND, BTW, priests don't wear their vestments in the marketplace or outside of church. The vestments are worn so that there is no eye candy to distract the worshippers in the congregation. Like Jesus, at the Last Supper, only the face and hands are visible.

And as far as things of the devil, do I need to post of JW 'evils' from the Silent Lambs website?

The Clothing of Jews in the Time of Jesus


Tunic, Sash, Mantle
There is general agreement that every Jew wore three basic items of clothing. The wool or linen undergarment was the first layer. It was a voluminous sleeved tunic held in place around the waist by a rope, leather belt or cloth sash. Over that was draped a mantle or cloak, a square of cloth that served as a topcoat, blanket, bedroll or even as collateral in a loan repayable by sunset. It was draped over one shoulder or both, depending on how much freedom of movement the wearer desired. Biblical researcher Michael Marlowe adds that Jews attached blue tassels to all four corners to comply with Mosaic law. Finally, no matter how poor a person was, all Jews wore sandals. These were made either of wood or camel hide.

BTW, your founder CT Russell was no saint, so using your reasoning.......best you look up his history.

Oh wow! You just went way south.Well I'm sorry you feel so much anger.I will leave you now.I do not want you upset brother.

 

[katiemygirl]

"My kingdom is not of this world" The kingdom is not from man, it is God's kingdom. That is why Jesus says it like that. It will be an actual kingdom.
"Thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth...."

How about answering my posts to you? Post # 663 and #667.

 

[moorea944]

This kingdom is not here yet. It is coming and it is real.

"Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom," We see here that Jesus has to reign from David's throne that will be rebuilt.

2 Sam 7 "And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom.
13 He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever."



Luke 1 32 "He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end."

What did Jesus preach? He preach the gospel of the Kingdom of God.

The kingdom is not the "church".

Revelation 21v23-27

Isaiah 2, Isaiah 11

Psalms 2, 72

Micah 4

Zech 8-14

These are just many books that talk about a coming kingdom.

 

[Kolibri]

There is a confusion here. There is a mix-up between the "kingdom of his beloved Son," (Col 1:13,18; Eph 5:23) and God's Kingdom.

When Jesus ascended to heaven, he did not immediately take up the scepter of rulership over the peoples of the world. (Psalm 110:1)
However, he did receive a “kingdom” with subjects that obeyed him. The apostle Paul identified that kingdom when he wrote: “[God] rescued us [spirit-anointed Christians] from the authority of the darkness and transferred us into the kingdom of his beloved Son.” (Colossians 1:13)

 

[moorea944]

The Bible says:
20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming. 24 Then comes
the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy that will be destroyed is death.27 For “He has put all things under His feet.” But when He says “all things are put under Him,” it is evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted. 28 Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all. (1 Cor. 15)

Where in this passage is a thousand years mentioned?

Verse 24 says that in the end, He (Jesus) delivers the kingdom to God the Father. Where is the Father?

Can you answer these two questions please?

[Where in this passage is a thousand years mentioned?]

Revelation 20 "Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years." Kingdom is not here yet.....



[Verse 24 says that in the end, He (Jesus) delivers the kingdom to God the Father. Where is the Father?]

The Father is in heaven, yes. Jesus hands over the kingdom to his Father. Scripture tells us that the kingdom will be on earth, forever. Very simple language, not a mystery, nothing is confusing here. God will be King again, like He was with Israel before the time of the kings. He will still rule from heaven, the kingdom will be on earth, forever.

 

[Kolibri]

The Father is in heaven, yes. Jesus hands over the kingdom to his Father. Scripture tells us that the kingdom will be on earth, forever. Very simple language, not a mystery, nothing is confusing here. God will be King again, like He was with Israel before the time of the kings. He will still rule from heaven, the kingdom will be on earth, forever.

So are you saying the seat of government will be in heaven and that the subjects will be here on the earth? If you stopped there you and I would be in agreement. But from what I read of your posts earlier, you seemed to believe that Jesus and the anointed Christians would be returning to the earth to rule from here? If the later, could you please provide scriptural reference?

 

[moorea944]

So are you saying the seat of government will be in heaven and that the subjects will be here on the earth? If you stopped there you and I would be in agreement. But from what I read of your posts earlier, you seemed to believe that Jesus and the anointed Christians would be returning to the earth to rule from here? If the later, could you please provide scriptural reference?

What i'm saying is this. I see no one actually going to heaven. In John, Jesus tells us three times that no one goes to heaven. The seat of government will be from Jerusalem. The kingdom is worldwide.

[But from what I read of your posts earlier, you seemed to believe that Jesus and the anointed Christians would be returning to the earth to rule from here?]
Only Jesus is returning. People will always be here. I dont believe in heaven going, only because it is the opposite of God's plan with us and the earth. There is no verse that actually tells us that we go to heaven. But, ..... there are verses that tell us that when we are dead, we are dead, until we are raised. And we will meet the Lord where he will be, on earth.

 

[katiemygirl]

="moorea944, post: 4140746, member: 16938"][Where in this passage is a thousand years mentioned?]

Revelation 20 "Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years." Kingdom is not here yet.....

The question was "Where in the passage (I Cor. 15), which I gave you does it say there will be a thousand year reign on earth? It does not!

[Verse 24 says that in the end, He (Jesus) delivers the kingdom to God the Father. Where is the Father?]

The Father is in heaven, yes. Jesus hands over the kingdom to his Father. Scripture tells us that the kingdom will be on earth, forever. Very simple language, not a mystery, nothing is confusing here. God will be King again, like He was with Israel before the time of the kings. He will still rule from heaven, the kingdom will be on earth, forever.

You assume the kingdom is an earthly one. It is not. It is a spiritual one.

Jesus said my kingdom is not of this world, meaning His kingdom did not come from earth. It came from heaven. It is spiritual. It's not something you can see or touch.

When Jesus comes again, we're told the dead in Christ will rise. Any christian alive at that time will be changed to a spiritual being and will meet Jesus in the air and will be with Him forever. Then the earth will be burned up. There is no more earth. How can there be an earthly kingdom? And who will be Peter tells us the earth and everything in it will be burned up. Then comes the separation of the sheep and goats. Why have an earthly kingdom at this point? All the christians have been taken to heaven. Jesus presents the kingdom to His Father. No one is left.

Luke 17
20 Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, “The kingdom of God does not come with observation; nor will they say, 6‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’ For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you.”

Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God. Neither does the perishaple. So how can there be a physical, earthly kingdom? You, the earth and everything in it are perishing. How can you say the kingdom is earthly?

1 Corinthians 15:42-44
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead.The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption. 43 It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power. 44 It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

1 Cor. 15:50
I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.

 

[katiemygirl]

This kingdom is not here yet. It is coming and it is real.

"Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom," We see here that Jesus has to reign from David's throne that will be rebuilt.

2 Sam 7 "And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom.
13 He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever."
Luke 1 32 "He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end."

What did Jesus preach? He preach the gospel of the Kingdom of God.

The kingdom is not the "church".

Revelation 21v23-27

Isaiah 2, Isaiah 11

Psalms 2, 72

Micah 4

Zech 8-14

These are just many books that talk about a coming kingdom.

Yes, the OT books speak of the coming kingdom. No dispute there.

The argument is WHEN. I say it is here. I gave you Scriptures in post #667, which you have not addressed yet.

You say it is future, yet you have not given Scriptural evidence. Your interpretation of OT prophesy is not proof anymore than mine is. The NT is where we have to look for proof. According to its writers, the kingdom is here.

 

[moorea944]

Yes, the OT books speak of the coming kingdom. No dispute there.

The argument is WHEN. I say it is here. I gave you Scriptures in post #667, which you have not addressed yet.

You say it is future, yet you have not given Scriptural evidence. Your interpretation of OT prophesy is not proof anymore than mine is. The NT is where we have to look for proof. According to its writers, the kingdom is here.

Well, I really think we should be looking at both. And I am going to answer your questions on #667. Getting my notes together. I will answer them.

 

[cataway]

What i'm saying is this. I see no one actually going to heaven.

yes there is . Jesus went there and he said

14 “Do not let YOUR hearts be troubled. Exercise faith in God, exercise faith also in me. 2 In the house of my Father there are many abodes. Otherwise, I would have told YOU, because I am going my way to prepare a place for YOU. 3 Also, if I go my way and prepare a place for YOU, I am coming again and will receive YOU home to myself, that where I am YOU also may be.

 

[moorea944]

yes there is . Jesus went there and he said

14 “Do not let YOUR hearts be troubled. Exercise faith in God, exercise faith also in me. 2 In the house of my Father there are many abodes. Otherwise, I would have told YOU, because I am going my way to prepare a place for YOU. 3 Also, if I go my way and prepare a place for YOU, I am coming again and will receive YOU home to myself, that where I am YOU also may be.

John 14v2 "In my Father’s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also."

Yes, I know that Jesus went to heaven. But John also tells us that the only one that has ever gone to heaven is Jesus. Jesus also tells us in John that were I"m going, no one will ever go there.

So, what does John 14 mean. Well, it's very simple.

In my father's house.. is what? It is not in heaven where God dwells. Most people think that. In scripture it can be one of two things. The temple in Jerusalem or people. People as in saints or followers of Christ and God. David was even told that. The "house of God', again can mean the saints or the ecclesias (church). And it's not mansions.

I go and prepare a place for you. Heaven... is not an unprepared place. So we know it is not that.

"And I will come again..." Meaning he has to come back to earth. " And receive you unto myself, where I am". On earth... "there you may be also". We will be taken to him. Not going "up" or snatched up". We are taken away to him. Very easy language.

Christ is coming back, we will be taken to him where he is, which will be on earth. The bible tells us that he is coming back. There is no reason for us to go to heaven. Everything is on earth.

Zech 14v9. "And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one."

Dan 2 "the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever"

2 Sam 7 talks about Jesus sitting and ruling from David's throne that will be rebuilt.

If Christ's disciples went to heaven at death, then Christ's assurance, "I will come again, and receive you unto myself" would be a separation and not a reunion

Peter was promised a place on the earth, not in heaven. "Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore? And Jesus said unto them . . . when the son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel." (Matt. 19:27, 28). Jesus will sit in his throne at Jerusalem (Lk. 1:32,33) when he returns. (See also Matt. 25:31,32).

 

[Wharton]

Oh wow! You just went way south.Well I'm sorry you feel so much anger.I will leave you now.I do not want you upset brother.

Yah, I figured the mention of Silent Lambs and CT Russell's history would provoke such a deflecting response from you.

 

[Nada]

Yah, I figured the mention of Silent Lambs and CT Russell's history would provoke such a deflecting response from you.

No deflection brother.I just see where you are headed and it is not spiritually sound.You have yourself a nice night now.Goodbye brother.