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Can someone explain the Trinity please...

moorea944

Well-Known Member
I have studied Daniel 2 in depth. I have also studied your view of a future kingdom, and I cannot reconcile it with the rest of the Bible.

Lieral? Keys to a building? Explain. What are the keys to the kingdom?

Why did Jesus say, "There will be some standing here who will not taste death until they see the kingdom come with power? Mark 9:1
[I have studied Daniel 2 in depth. I have also studied your view of a future kingdom, and I cannot reconcile it with the rest of the Bible.]
Really... All through the bible, esp. OT, is a coming kingdom, that has to be "set up" by Christ. Christ is not here yet. The Lord's prayer. "Thy kingdom come, they will be done, on earth..."

The coming kingdom is the old imperfect Kingdom of Israel that will be restored. It will be made into a perfect kingdom. And we are all invited to it. (Look at the parables). Even the Apostles knew it too. Acts 1 "When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?"

David knew this too in 2 Sam 7. Prophet books in the OT. All knew that Israel would be restored again someday into a perfect kingdom. The last chapters of Ezk tells us of temples that will be built at that time in the kingdom age. Very beautiful thing!
 

katiemygirl

CHRISTIAN
No, not at all. Kingdom is not here yet. It is not spiriitual as in you can see it. It is spiritual as in it will be a Kingdom from God on earth. Look at Dan 2. So many OT books tell us that it will be set up and it will be a real kingdom at Christ's coming.

In Daniel 2, there is an image of a statue which was seen by the King of Babylon. Daniel interpreted the vision with God's help. He told him that there would be a series of four kingdoms that would rise and fall. Daniel identified the head of gold on the statue as being the Babylonian kingdom (606-539 BC) The chest of silver was the Medo-Persia kingdom (539-331 BC) The thighs of bronze represented the kingdom of Greece (331-30BC). The fourth and final kingdom of Rome was represented by the legs and feet of iron and clay (30BC-397AD).

Then Daniel made the prophecy about God's kingdom, Dan 2:44, "And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which will never be destroyed, and that kingdom will not be left for another people; it will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, but it will itself endure forever." This is a crystal clear time prophecy that God's kingdom would be established sometime during the Roman empire! Is it just random chance that Pentecost in Acts 2 was during the Roman empire? (Luke 2:1) No way! God is able to bring his will to pass! God established the kingdom on the day of Pentecost! If the kingdom is not yet established, then the prophecy fails and God is a liar, for Rome has been gone for over 1500 years!
 

moorea944

Well-Known Member
In Daniel 2, there is an image of a statue which was seen by the King of Babylon. Daniel interpreted the vision with God's help. He told him that there would be a series of four kingdoms that would rise and fall. Daniel identified the head of gold on the statue as being the Babylonian kingdom (606-539 BC) The chest of silver was the Medo-Persia kingdom (539-331 BC) The thighs of bronze represented the kingdom of Greece (331-30BC). The fourth and final kingdom of Rome was represented by the legs and feet of iron and clay (30BC-397AD).

Then Daniel made the prophecy about God's kingdom, Dan 2:44, "And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which will never be destroyed, and that kingdom will not be left for another people; it will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, but it will itself endure forever." This is a crystal clear time prophecy that God's kingdom would be established sometime during the Roman empire! Is it just random chance that Pentecost in Acts 2 was during the Roman empire? (Luke 2:1) No way! God is able to bring his will to pass! God established the kingdom on the day of Pentecost! If the kingdom is not yet established, then the prophecy fails and God is a liar, for Rome has been gone for over 1500 years!
This has nothing to do with Roman Empire. Plus, Christ has to be here to set it up. That is clear. I really dont know where you get your ideas from. The Kingdom did not start with Pentecost.

[If the kingdom is not yet established, then the prophecy fails and God is a liar,]
Again, I dont know where you get your ideas from... But I can tell that you realy dont study the OT alot. The kingdom is a literal kingdom, it is not the "church". Christ will be the king from Jerusalem, which will be the capital. The word of God will go out from Jerusalem at that time. The first thing he will do is to raise the dead and judge. Then the kingdom will begin to be set up. Rember in Daniel, the kingdom will be "set up?"
 

Wharton

Active Member
1.Yes I read my post.Proof read it.

2.Peter was no successor of any sort.There are no successors in Christianity.Just followers.This is not a royal position being passed down.Peter and the rest of the other disciples had a mission to spread the Word concerning the Kingdom of God.God is our creator and Jesus is our Shepherd.Jesus came to teach and pass on the Word.He died as a ransom sacrifice after he was done.Those who heard and saw Jesus became witnesses of the power and glory of God the Almighty.True Christianity is what Jesus preached to his followers in the 1st century.Anything other than that is not true christianity.Christendom is counterfeit christianity.


3.Jesus dressed like all the rest of the poor.Although poor,they still had weddings,festivals and dressed up.There were no suits in Jesus day.Today,suits are the norm for going out or attending important functions.There were those though who dressed like royalty and considered themselves above the rest.

Luke 20:46 "Beware of the teachers of the law. They like to walk around in flowing robes and love to be greeted with respect in the marketplaces and have the most important seats in the synagogues and the places of honor at banquets.


Luke 11:43 "Woe to you Pharisees, because you love the most important seats in the synagogues and respectful greetings in the marketplaces.


It is the same today.

READ THIS.

The sto·le′, as referred to in the Christian Greek Scriptures, was a stately robe reaching down to the feet. Jesus criticized the scribes for loving to wear this type of robe in public places to attract attention and to impress people with their importance. (Lu 20:46) The angel at Jesus’ tomb was wearing this form of clothing. (Mr 16:5) It was this robe, “the best,” that was put on the prodigal son at his return. (Lu 15:22) And the martyred servants of God in John’s vision are clothed with the sto·le′ (Re 6:11), as are also the members of the “great crowd.”—Re 7:9, 13, 14.

Dress — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

Popes,bishops,cardinals etc... these walk around with long robes and expect respect.Living in lavish mansions while the poor are helpless.It is all part of the big show.You here of these things all the time.One recently,a bishop was busted buying a 44 million dollar mansion.Another was caught smuggling in millions and arrested into Vatican city.He was involved with the Vatican bank.These people have their own agenda as did the Pharisees in the days of Jesus.They are proud and rich.They walk around with rich garments and expect respect from everyone.Jesus would not approve of this behavior.He did not then, and he will not today.

4.Just to add to what I already stated before.No,these men are not humble.Jesus and his followers were humble.Being humble and like a child when it comes to learning and preaching the word of God is being christ like.Using the golden rule and applying it daily.Loving others more than yourself.Helping those in need and feeding the poor.It says in the holy scriptures that the meek shall inherit the earth.

Matthew 5:5 Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth.

Meek:
quiet, gentle, and easily imposed on; submissive:

Humble
:having or showing a modest or low estimate of one's own importance:

These are not the traits of those who run the Vatican.

Jesus would never be part of what you see today in the Vatican.He is against everything they stand for.Idol worship,greed,murder,homosexuality etc.. These are things of the devil,not of God.

I am not misinformed.It is quite the opposite,I am awake and can see the lies.Those who can not see this are blinded and spiritually sick.

2 Corinthians 4:4 The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
READ THIS

Then tell me who dresses more like Jesus? AND, BTW, priests don't wear their vestments in the marketplace or outside of church. The vestments are worn so that there is no eye candy to distract the worshippers in the congregation. Like Jesus, at the Last Supper, only the face and hands are visible.

And as far as things of the devil, do I need to post of JW 'evils' from the Silent Lambs website?

The Clothing of Jews in the Time of Jesus


Tunic, Sash, Mantle
There is general agreement that every Jew wore three basic items of clothing. The wool or linen undergarment was the first layer. It was a voluminous sleeved tunic held in place around the waist by a rope, leather belt or cloth sash. Over that was draped a mantle or cloak, a square of cloth that served as a topcoat, blanket, bedroll or even as collateral in a loan repayable by sunset. It was draped over one shoulder or both, depending on how much freedom of movement the wearer desired. Biblical researcher Michael Marlowe adds that Jews attached blue tassels to all four corners to comply with Mosaic law. Finally, no matter how poor a person was, all Jews wore sandals. These were made either of wood or camel hide.

BTW, your founder CT Russell was no saint, so using your reasoning.......best you look up his history.
 

katiemygirl

CHRISTIAN
[I have studied Daniel 2 in depth. I have also studied your view of a future kingdom, and I cannot reconcile it with the rest of the Bible.]
Really... All through the bible, esp. OT, is a coming kingdom, that has to be "set up" by Christ. Christ is not here yet. The Lord's prayer. "Thy kingdom come, they will be done, on earth..."

The coming kingdom is the old imperfect Kingdom of Israel that will be restored. It will be made into a perfect kingdom. And we are all invited to it. (Look at the parables). Even the Apostles knew it too. Acts 1 "When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?"

David knew this too in 2 Sam 7. Prophet books in the OT. All knew that Israel would be restored again someday into a perfect kingdom. The last chapters of Ezk tells us of temples that will be built at that time in the kingdom age. Very beautiful thing!
Could you please use quotes?

You are assuming that all kingdom prophecies are in your future. They are not.

Yes, Jesus, in His model prayer, prayed for the kingdom to come, and it did. It came with the power of the Holy Spirit just as He said it would.

Christ did come! When He comes again, it will be to judge the living and the dead, not to set up an earthly kingdom.

Not in Acts, or Paul's letters, nor any other books of the NT ever talk about a future kingdom. The only mention of a thousand year reign is in Revelation, and only one time.

When Jesus came, the Jews were looking for an earthly King and a physical kingdom. Even the apostles did not understand that the kingdom would be spiritual and not physical. They didn't get it until Pentecost when the Holy Spirit came upon them.

Your entire view is built on OT prophesy, yet you totally ignore the many verses which talk about the kingdom in the present throughout the NT.

Tell me. Why would we need temples? Speaking of Jesus, the Hebrew writer said,

"Butwhen this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God,"

There is no need for sacrifices, and no need for a physical temple. Jesus was the sacrifice once for all time.

Jesus is King. We, christians are a kingdom of priests serving Him NOW.
 

Kolibri

Well-Known Member
In Daniel 2, there is an image of a statue which was seen by the King of Babylon. Daniel interpreted the vision with God's help. He told him that there would be a series of four kingdoms that would rise and fall. Daniel identified the head of gold on the statue as being the Babylonian kingdom (606-539 BC) The chest of silver was the Medo-Persia kingdom (539-331 BC) The thighs of bronze represented the kingdom of Greece (331-30BC). The fourth and final kingdom of Rome was represented by the legs and feet of iron and clay (30BC-397AD).

Then Daniel made the prophecy about God's kingdom, Dan 2:44, "And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which will never be destroyed, and that kingdom will not be left for another people; it will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, but it will itself endure forever." This is a crystal clear time prophecy that God's kingdom would be established sometime during the Roman empire! Is it just random chance that Pentecost in Acts 2 was during the Roman empire? (Luke 2:1) No way! God is able to bring his will to pass! God established the kingdom on the day of Pentecost! If the kingdom is not yet established, then the prophecy fails and God is a liar, for Rome has been gone for over 1500 years!

I followed you all the way to the legs. Your understanding is that the feet are the same as the legs but they are not. They are mixed with clay. Some world power after Rome would have significant impact on God's people. It would be hard like Rome but non-cohesive in other ways. This is more in line with the Anglo-American world power we see today. Britain grew out of the remnants of Rome and the United States left Britain and later became it's partner. Both are leaders of the so-called free world.
 
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moorea944

Well-Known Member
Could you please use quotes?

You are assuming that all kingdom prophecies are in your future. They are not.

Yes, Jesus, in His model prayer, prayed for the kingdom to come, and it did. It came with the power of the Holy Spirit just as He said it would.

Christ did come! When He comes again, it will be to judge the living and the dead, not to set up an earthly kingdom.

Not in Acts, or Paul's letters, nor any other books of the NT ever talk about a future kingdom. The only mention of a thousand year reign is in Revelation, and only one time.

When Jesus came, the Jews were looking for an earthly King and a physical kingdom. Even the apostles did not understand that the kingdom would be spiritual and not physical. They didn't get it until Pentecost when the Holy Spirit came upon them.

Your entire view is built on OT prophesy, yet you totally ignore the many verses which talk about the kingdom in the present throughout the NT.

Tell me. Why would we need temples? Speaking of Jesus, the Hebrew writer said,

"Butwhen this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God,"

There is no need for sacrifices, and no need for a physical temple. Jesus was the sacrifice once for all time.

Jesus is King. We, christians are a kingdom of priests serving Him NOW.

[You are assuming that all kingdom prophecies are in your future. They are not.]


They are in the future.

[Christ did come! When He comes again, it will be to judge the living and the dead, not to set up an earthly kingdom.]

One of the reasons he is coming back is to set up the kingdom. So, in your mind, what does he do after judgement?

[Not in Acts, or Paul's letters, nor any other books of the NT ever talk about a future kingdom. The only mention of a thousand year reign is in Revelation, and only one time.]

Wrong, it actuall does. I"ll post them later. In acts, they ask Jesus about restoring the kingdom.. Remember? And us reigning with Christ IS in the kingdom. We are with him in his kingdom.

[Even the apostles did not understand that the kingdom would be spiritual and not physical.]

Apostles knew that it would be phyiscal. Even David knew that. He was told that his kingdom would be re-established and he would live to see it happen. That means he would have to be raised from the dead, which he also believed in.

[Your entire view is built on OT prophesy]

Nope, it's base on OT and NT. Yours is based intirely on NT. So that means you miss out on alot of things. I think you dont like reading the OT as much as NT. It is one book. Most new religions dont even read the OT.

[yet you totally ignore the many verses which talk about the kingdom in the present throughout the NT.]

Show me verses on that one....

[Tell me. Why would we need temples?]

They are for prayer and worship

[Jesus is King. We, christians are a kingdom of priests serving Him NOW. ]

Jesus will our king when he comes back. We WILL BE a kingdom of priests. Its also talking about immortality. We are priests now, but it's not talking about the future priests that we will be "with Christ".

[There is no need for sacrifices, and no need for a physical temple.]

In your eyes, yes. Again, you just focus on the NT.
 

katiemygirl

CHRISTIAN
"moorea944, post: 4139693, member: 16938"]This has nothing to do with Roman Empire. Plus, Christ has to be here to set it up. That is clear. I really dont know where you get your ideas from. The Kingdom did not start with Pentecost.
It has everything to do with the Roman Empire. That's the time frame when Jesus lived and died, and when the kingdom/ekklesia was established. Acts 2:47. "And the Lord was adding to their number day by day those who were being saved." The saved are in the kingdom. The NT repeatedly tells us this.

Again, I dont know where you get your ideas from... But I can tell that you realy dont study the OT alot. The kingdom is a literal kingdom, it is not the "church". Christ will be the king from Jerusalem, which will be the capital.
Please do not insult me. It is uncalled for, and unchristian. Stick to the facts, and keep personal attacks out of the conversation.

Jesus is reigning right now from heaven. Heb.1:8-9.
The word of God will go out from Jerusalem at that time. The first thing he will do is to raise the dead and judge. Then the kingdom will begin to be set up. Rember in Daniel, the kingdom will be "set up?"
The word DID go out from Jerusalem on Pentecost. Peter preached the first gospel sermon that day. 3000 believed and were baptized. They were added to the kingdom by the Lord. And from that point, the gospel was preached throughout the world.

When Jesus comes again, it will be to judge, not set up an earthly kingdom. The dead in Christ will rise first to meet Him in the air. Then those christians who remain will be changed in the twinkling of an eye. Jesus will then take His kingdom/the saved back to heaven with Him. He will hand the kingdom over to His Father.

1 Cor. 15:24.
Then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power.
 

moorea944

Well-Known Member
It has everything to do with the Roman Empire. That's the time frame when Jesus lived and died, and when the kingdom/ekklesia was established. Acts 2:47. "And the Lord was adding to their number day by day those who were being saved." The saved are in the kingdom. The NT repeatedly tells us this.


Please do not insult me. It is uncalled for, and unchristian. Stick to the facts, and keep personal attacks out of the conversation.

Jesus is reigning right now from heaven. Heb.1:8-9.

The word DID go out from Jerusalem on Pentecost. Peter preached the first gospel sermon that day. 3000 believed and were baptized. They were added to the kingdom by the Lord. And from that point, the gospel was preached throughout the world.

When Jesus comes again, it will be to judge, not set up an earthly kingdom. The dead in Christ will rise first to meet Him in the air. Then those christians who remain will be changed in the twinkling of an eye. Jesus will then take His kingdom/the saved back to heaven with Him. He will hand the kingdom over to His Father.

1 Cor. 15:24.
Then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power.

No one is insulting anyone. But your missing out on so much in the prophet books.
[Jesus will then take His kingdom/the saved back to heaven with Him. He will hand the kingdom over to His Father.]
The bible knows nothing about heaven going. That is false doctrine. Everything is on earth. "And the Lord will be King over all the earth forever and ever."
At the end of the thousand years on earth, Jesus hands over the kingdom on earth to his Father and God will be King again. God was king along time ago with Israel. God will be king onces again. Jesus will "still be" subject to his Father. Not co-equal or as God. But subject.
The bible is about God. Though Jesus is a big part of the bible, yes. But it is about Yahweh. We are in His creation.
Jesus will be king on earth when he comes back to set up his father's kingdom. Everything is on earth, not heaven. The bible know nothing about heaven going. At all....
 
New
The bible says "God was matifested in the flesh", Jesus said "if you seen me you seen the father", Isaiah 9:6 says "unto a child is born a son is given and his name shall be called .........., The mighty God, The everlasting Father. What is the greatest commandment " Hear O Israel The Lord our God is one Lord" not a Tri god but one God. Jehovah said " I am alpha omega first and last", Jesus says same thing in Revelation. To top it off Jehovah said He would not share glory and Jesus said "All power is given unto me in Heaven and Earth" where does that leave the Father. I find trinity no where in the bible. There is no trinity
 

moorea944

Well-Known Member
New
The bible says "God was matifested in the flesh", Jesus said "if you seen me you seen the father", Isaiah 9:6 says "unto a child is born a son is given and his name shall be called .........., The mighty God, The everlasting Father. What is the greatest commandment " Hear O Israel The Lord our God is one Lord" not a Tri god but one God. Jehovah said " I am alpha omega first and last", Jesus says same thing in Revelation. To top it off Jehovah said He would not share glory and Jesus said "All power is given unto me in Heaven and Earth" where does that leave the Father. I find trinity no where in the bible. There is no trinity
Great post, thank you!! I think people bring the trinity into the bible because that is what they are taught in their church. Sad.
 

Kolibri

Well-Known Member
@moorea944

How does 1 Corinthians 15:50 reconcile with the idea of God's Kingdom having it's seat of government here on this planet? As a reminder, there we are told that "flesh and blood cannot inherit God's Kingdom." I understand these ones are granted immortality as was the Christ as per verses 51-53. But where does it say these ones will put on flesh and blood again? Doesn't verses 46-49 say these ones now bear the image of the man that is no longer made of dust?
 

moorea944

Well-Known Member
@moorea944

How does 1 Corinthians 15:50 reconcile with the idea of God's Kingdom having it's seat of government here on this planet? As a reminder, there we are told that "flesh and blood cannot inherit God's Kingdom." I understand these ones are granted immortality as was the Christ as per verses 51-53. But where does it say these ones will put on flesh and blood again? Doesn't verses 46-49 say these ones now bear the image of the man that is no longer made of dust?
Great question , thanks. Flesh and blood do not enter into the kingdom. We have to have our bodies changed into immortal bodies. There will still be mortals in the kingdom, people who are not called to judgement. We, the saints of the Most High, being now immortal, we will go out and teach to the mortal population. Some will do other things, like in charge or overseeing the temples being built, or being with Christ at Armagedon.

AT the end of the thousand years, a second resurrection and judgement will take place. After that, everyone will be immortal, then Jesus hands over the kingdom to his Father. God will then be in all and in all.
 

Kolibri

Well-Known Member
Great question , thanks. Flesh and blood do not enter into the kingdom. We have to have our bodies changed into immortal bodies. There will still be mortals in the kingdom, people who are not called to judgement. We, the saints of the Most High, being now immortal, we will go out and teach to the mortal population. Some will do other things, like in charge or overseeing the temples being built, or being with Christ at Armagedon.

AT the end of the thousand years, a second resurrection and judgement will take place. After that, everyone will be immortal, then Jesus hands over the kingdom to his Father. God will then be in all and in all.
and I expect to be part of that 'mortal population' but that brings me to 1 Timothy 6:13-16. At the time Jesus was still the only one resurrected to immortal life. And it said that he now dwelt "in unapproachable light." Was not Paul blinded when visited by Jesus? (Acts 9:3) Is not his countenance now likened to "the sun when it shines at its brightest"? (Re 1:16) Would not then the administration need to be from heaven itself, perhaps with angels acting as messengers to "princes"? (Isa 32:1)
 
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cataway

Well-Known Member
AT the end of the thousand years, a second resurrection and judgement will take place. After that, everyone will be immortal, then Jesus hands over the kingdom to his Father. God will then be in all and in all.
you wont believe this but your understanding is wrong
 

moorea944

Well-Known Member
and I expect to be part of that 'mortal population' but that brings me to 1 Timothy 6:13-16. At the time Jesus was still the only one resurrected to immortal life. And it said that he now dwelt "in unapproachable light." Was not Paul blinded when visited by Jesus? (Acts 9:3) Is not his countenance now likened to "the sun when it shines at its brightest"? (Re 1:16) Would not then the administration need to be from heaven itself, perhaps with angels acting as messengers to "princes"? (Isa 32:1)
[and I expect to be part of that 'mortal population']
Why mortal population? You should hope for immortality at his coming. He will judge us and if we are accepted, by God's Grace and Mercy, we will be made immortal right there. The people who are rejected will be sent back into the world, mortal, and when they die, then they are dead forever. A final death, with no hope of anything any more. That is also referenced to the lake of fire. A "final death".

Not quit sure what you mean by the other verses. 1 Tim 6 is talking about God and Jesus. Verse 16 is God who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see.

In Acts 9v3 the shining around Paul, we dont know if that was actually Jesus. It just says a light was going around Paul. The voice was Jesus, yes. Was Jesus actually there, we dont know. His voice was. He could have been there. Bible doesnt say. We know that God talks through angels. When your "spirit" or "immortal", you can do anything, just like the angels.
 

moorea944

Well-Known Member
you wont believe this but your understanding is wrong
Actually it's not. Bible says that at the end of the thousand years, there will be a second resurrection and judgement for the mortal population that lived during that time. Then everyone will be immortal, like God, with a divine nature. Then, God will be in all and all.
 

Kolibri

Well-Known Member
Actually it's not. Bible says that at the end of the thousand years, there will be a second resurrection and judgement for the mortal population that lived during that time. Then everyone will be immortal, like God, with a divine nature. Then, God will be in all and all.

It only says they will come to life. It does not say they will be immortal.

"(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the 1,000 years had ended.)" - Re 20:5a

At the end of the 1,000 years all mankind then living will have finally reclaimed the same life that Adam had before sinning. They become fully alive from God's standpoint. One can "live forever" w/o having "deathlessness." (Re 21:3,4) The difference is that mortal beings can be killed if need be. (Isa 65:20; Re 20:10) Immortal can not.
 

cataway

Well-Known Member
they
Actually it's not. Bible says that at the end of the thousand years, there will be a second resurrection and judgement for the mortal population that lived during that time. Then everyone will be immortal, like God, with a divine nature. Then, God will be in all and all.
nope ,those people ,at that time ,are all ready living and have been for a long time.
they are referred to as the dead because they were dead,
 
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