Can someone explain the Trinity please...

[cataway]

[ Qt hisiO TE="moorea944, post: 4141104, member: 16938"]John 14v2 "In my Father’s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also."

Yes, I know that Jesus went to heaven. But John also tells us that the only one that has ever gone to heaven is Jesus. Jesus also tells us in John that were I"m going, no one will ever go there.

So, what does John 14 mean. Well, it's very simple.

In my father's house.. is what? It is not in heaven where God dwells. Most people think that. In scripture it can be one of two things. The temple in Jerusalem or people. People as in saints or followers of Christ and God. David was even told that. The "house of God', again can mean the saints or the ecclesias (church). And it's not mansions.

I go and prepare a place for you. Heaven... is not an unprepared place. So we know it is not that.

"And I will come again..." Meaning he has to come back to earth. " And receive you unto myself, where I am". On earth... "there you may be also". We will be taken to him. Not going "up" or snatched up". We are taken away to him. Very easy language.

Christ is coming back, we will be taken to him where he is, which will be on earth. The bible tells us that he is coming back. There is no reason for us to go to heaven. Everything is on earth.

Zech 14v9. "And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one."

Dan 2 "the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever"

2 Sam 7 talks about Jesus sitting and ruling from David's throne that will be rebuilt.

If Christ's disciples went to heaven at death, then Christ's assurance, "I will come again, and receive you unto myself" would be a separation and not a reunion

Peter was promised a place on the earth, not in heaven. "Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore? And Jesus said unto them . . . when the son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel." (Matt. 19:27, 28). Jesus will sit in his throne at Jerusalem (Lk. 1:32,33) when he returns. (See also Matt. 25:31,32).[/QUOTE]
You made some errors .this one " If Christ's disciples went to heaven at death, then Christ's assurance, "I will come again, and receive you unto myself" would be a separation and not a reunion" that jumped out at me as the apostles Did not go to heaven at there death. they had to wait in death

 

[moorea944]

[ Qt hisiO TE="moorea944, post: 4141104, member: 16938"]John 14v2 "In my Father’s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also."

Yes, I know that Jesus went to heaven. But John also tells us that the only one that has ever gone to heaven is Jesus. Jesus also tells us in John that were I"m going, no one will ever go there.

So, what does John 14 mean. Well, it's very simple.

In my father's house.. is what? It is not in heaven where God dwells. Most people think that. In scripture it can be one of two things. The temple in Jerusalem or people. People as in saints or followers of Christ and God. David was even told that. The "house of God', again can mean the saints or the ecclesias (church). And it's not mansions.

I go and prepare a place for you. Heaven... is not an unprepared place. So we know it is not that.

"And I will come again..." Meaning he has to come back to earth. " And receive you unto myself, where I am". On earth... "there you may be also". We will be taken to him. Not going "up" or snatched up". We are taken away to him. Very easy language.

Christ is coming back, we will be taken to him where he is, which will be on earth. The bible tells us that he is coming back. There is no reason for us to go to heaven. Everything is on earth.

Zech 14v9. "And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one."

Dan 2 "the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever"

2 Sam 7 talks about Jesus sitting and ruling from David's throne that will be rebuilt.

If Christ's disciples went to heaven at death, then Christ's assurance, "I will come again, and receive you unto myself" would be a separation and not a reunion

Peter was promised a place on the earth, not in heaven. "Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore? And Jesus said unto them . . . when the son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel." (Matt. 19:27, 28). Jesus will sit in his throne at Jerusalem (Lk. 1:32,33) when he returns. (See also Matt. 25:31,32).

You made some errors .this one " If Christ's disciples went to heaven at death, then Christ's assurance, "I will come again, and receive you unto myself" would be a separation and not a reunion" that jumped out at me as the apostles Did not go to heaven at there death. they had to wait in death[/QUOTE]
I didnt say the apostles went to heaven at their death. No one goes to heaven at their death. Only Jesus went to heaven.

 

[moorea944]

How about answering my posts to you? Post # 663 and #667.

[You asked that I cite some verses which show the kingdom is present at this time. Here ya go!]

Here are my answers to your questions. I know that you will already have a problem with them because of what you believe in. But we'll give it a shot.



1. Paul and the Colossian Christians were in the kingdom. That could not be unless the kingdom was in existence.]
Col 1v13 12 "Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:"

We are in those future promises (which no one has gotten yet). Christ has to "come back" first. The kingdom is not here yet. David's throne has to be rebuilt, so many things have to still be done. In the kingdom there will be peace on earth. So many things will happen in the kingdom age, that we are not seeing now.



2. [John and the Christians he wrote to were companions in the kingdom of Jesus Christ. They could not be companions in the kingdom is the kingdom did not exist.]

Rev 1v9 "I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ."

Yes, John was in the Spirit. He was seeing a vision of the future and all through the ages. He was also shown visions of the kingdom, so in a way, he was there for a moment.



3. [Jesus made US to be a kingdom and priests to serve His God and Father.]

Yes, that is a future prophecy. We are priests now in a way that we should be preaching God's Word and Gospel of the kingdom and Christ. But, when the kingdom is actually here and we are immortal, then we will be a kingdom of priests.



4 [Hebrews 12v28-29 People in the first century were receiving a kingdom). Therefore, it must have existed then]

Again, no. We will be recieving a kingdom. It is a future event. When Christ comes back.



5. The kingdom must exist now because Jesus is now reigning. He will not begin to reign when He returns, but He will reign till then. Then He will give the kingdom over to the Father. 1 Cor 15v24-27

Read 23 first, then comes the end. His last enemy has to be putting death away, that will happen at the end of the thousands years. Christ will rule when he comes back. He will be our King. We can say he's our king now if we want, but he will be the earth's King when he comes back. He hands over the kingdom to his Father at the end of the thousand years.



6. [Some standing before Jesus would not die till they saw the kingdom come. If that kingdom still has not come, some 2000 years later, there are some very old people around!] Mark 9v1

The transfiguration was a major event in the life of the disciples. It provided them with a vision of the risen Christ in all his glory. It provided them with a contrast to when Jesus told the 12 that he would die.

We are told that those who were about the witness the transfiguration of Jesus would not taste of death, until they had seen the kingdom of God come with power. We each are able to read of this experience, so to that extent we have shared it. We too have insight, provided by God through His word and His willingness to allow us to find His truth, to this very vision that these three chosen special disciples witnessed. Let us never belittle the power of the word to bring us to understanding and remove the 'dark glass' of childhood that prevented a face to face meeting with our Lord.

The kingdom of God come with power refers to the transfiguration and that the "some" would then refer to Peter, James, and John.

The kingdom of God which Jesus and the apostles preached, is a future coming advent. It is not here yet. We should be praying for this to happen soon. And hopefully by God's mercy and grace will be be accepted into the kingdom age.

 

[Wharton]

No deflection brother.I just see where you are headed and it is not spiritually sound.You have yourself a nice night now.Goodbye brother.

So it's OK for you to post derogatory info about priests but when the shoe's on the other foot, you run away.

 

[katiemygirl]

[You asked that I cite some verses which show the kingdom is present at this time. Here ya go!]

Here are my answers to your questions. I know that you will already have a problem with them because of what you believe in. But we'll give it a shot.



1. Paul and the Colossian Christians were in the kingdom. That could not be unless the kingdom was in existence.]
Col 1v13 12 "Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:"

We are in those future promises (which no one has gotten yet). Christ has to "come back" first. The kingdom is not here yet. David's throne has to be rebuilt, so many things have to still be done. In the kingdom there will be peace on earth. So many things will happen in the kingdom age, that we are not seeing now.



2. [John and the Christians he wrote to were companions in the kingdom of Jesus Christ. They could not be companions in the kingdom is the kingdom did not exist.]

Rev 1v9 "I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ."

Yes, John was in the Spirit. He was seeing a vision of the future and all through the ages. He was also shown visions of the kingdom, so in a way, he was there for a moment.



3. [Jesus made US to be a kingdom and priests to serve His God and Father.]

Yes, that is a future prophecy. We are priests now in a way that we should be preaching God's Word and Gospel of the kingdom and Christ. But, when the kingdom is actually here and we are immortal, then we will be a kingdom of priests.



4 [Hebrews 12v28-29 People in the first century were receiving a kingdom). Therefore, it must have existed then]

Again, no. We will be recieving a kingdom. It is a future event. When Christ comes back.



5. The kingdom must exist now because Jesus is now reigning. He will not begin to reign when He returns, but He will reign till then. Then He will give the kingdom over to the Father. 1 Cor 15v24-27

Read 23 first, then comes the end. His last enemy has to be putting death away, that will happen at the end of the thousands years. Christ will rule when he comes back. He will be our King. We can say he's our king now if we want, but he will be the earth's King when he comes back. He hands over the kingdom to his Father at the end of the thousand years.



6. [Some standing before Jesus would not die till they saw the kingdom come. If that kingdom still has not come, some 2000 years later, there are some very old people around!] Mark 9v1

The transfiguration was a major event in the life of the disciples. It provided them with a vision of the risen Christ in all his glory. It provided them with a contrast to when Jesus told the 12 that he would die.

We are told that those who were about the witness the transfiguration of Jesus would not taste of death, until they had seen the kingdom of God come with power. We each are able to read of this experience, so to that extent we have shared it. We too have insight, provided by God through His word and His willingness to allow us to find His truth, to this very vision that these three chosen special disciples witnessed. Let us never belittle the power of the word to bring us to understanding and remove the 'dark glass' of childhood that prevented a face to face meeting with our Lord.

The kingdom of God come with power refers to the transfiguration and that the "some" would then refer to Peter, James, and John.

The kingdom of God which Jesus and the apostles preached, is a future coming advent. It is not here yet. We should be praying for this to happen soon. And hopefully by God's mercy and grace will be be accepted into the kingdom age.

Than you moorea for taking the time to address each Scripture that I posted. I appreciate your effort. As you suspected, I disagree with your conclusions. No surprises there, right? We will simply have to agree to disagree on this point, and no doubt many more.

In the end, it doesn't matter what either of us think. We are going to be judged according to our deeds, not how we interpret the Scriptures. All any of us can do is pray and study. If we submit to His will, and take up our cross and follow Him each day, we will be given our crowns of life. Whether we spend eternity in heaven or on a restored earth makes no difference, as long as we are with our Lord. I think this is something we can agree on.

I pray for God to bless you in every way. Keep studying each day. I will do the same. Someday, we will both have all the answers down perfectly.

 

[moorea944]

Than you moorea for taking the time to address each Scripture that I posted. I appreciate your effort. As you suspected, I disagree with your conclusions. No surprises there, right? We will simply have to agree to disagree on this point, and no doubt many more.

In the end, it doesn't matter what either of us think. We are going to be judged according to our deeds, not how we interpret the Scriptures. All any of us can do is pray and study. If we submit to His will, and take up our cross and follow Him each day, we will be given our crowns of life. Whether we spend eternity in heaven or on a restored earth makes no difference, as long as we are with our Lord. I think this is something we can agree on.

I pray for God to bless you in every way. Keep studying each day. I will do the same. Someday, we will both have all the answers down perfectly.

Thank you, same here.

 

[Nada]

So it's OK for you to post derogatory info about priests but when the shoe's on the other foot, you run away.

No that is not it at all brother.I was merely pointing out the corruption of not only the money and political issues, but the distorted teachings as well.Humans are imperfect.Yes there are those who will make mistakes.Even some of those who walked with Christ made mistakes.Look at Peter.Judas was known to take money from the donation purse.People make mistakes in life and sin,but the teachings are still the same.Later, after Jesus and his disciples departed,many rose up and corrupted the true teachings of Christ and his disciples.People began to make their own rules and distort the truth.Now we have Christendom.This is not true Christianity that was taught by Jesus.This is man made beliefs that have no real biblical backing.The truth is there,you just have to see it without the goggles on.

Pope does not appear in the holy scriptures.Not once.Neither does christmas,easter,eucharist or transubstantiation.Peter is never mentioned as being a pope or being in Rome in the holy scriptures.Paul is mentioned being in Rome,but not Peter.Paul is mentioned in Rome in Acts 28.

Yes,one can plainly see who is really spreading the truth by the fruits they bear.One must see through all the traditions of men.For instance,baptizing at birth.One does not baptize a baby into a religion before they have had a chance to hear the truth and accept it.All throughout the holy scriptures Jesus and his disciples spoke about the Kingdom of God to those who would listen.Those who heard and accepted the word of God became baptized to show their dedication in public.They became Christians after hearing the word.Babies can not do this for they are not able to comprehend it.This is not true christianity.

 

[katiemygirl]

No that is not it at all brother.I was merely pointing out the corruption of not only the money and political issues, but the distorted teachings as well.Humans are imperfect.Yes there are those who will make mistakes.Even some of those who walked with Christ made mistakes.Look at Peter.Judas was known to take money from the donation purse.People make mistakes in life and sin,but the teachings are still the same.Later, after Jesus and his disciples departed,many rose up and corrupted the true teachings of Christ and his disciples.People began to make their own rules and distort the truth.Now we have Christendom.This is not true Christianity that was taught by Jesus.This is man made beliefs that have no real biblical backing.The truth is there,you just have to see it without the goggles on.

Pope does not appear in the holy scriptures.Not once.Neither does christmas,easter,eucharist or transubstantiation.Peter is never mentioned as being a pope or being in Rome in the holy scriptures.Paul is mentioned being in Rome,but not Peter.Paul is mentioned in Rome in Acts 28.

Yes,one can plainly see who is really spreading the truth by the fruits they bear.One must see through all the traditions of men.For instance,baptizing at birth.One does not baptize a baby into a religion before they have had a chance to hear the truth and accept it.All throughout the holy scriptures Jesus and his disciples spoke about the Kingdom of God to those who would listen.Those who heard and accepted the word of God became baptized to show their dedication in public.They became Christians after hearing the word.Babies can not do this for they are not able to comprehend it.This is not true christianity.

Good post!

There is nothing in the Bible about a Governing Body either, or confirmation, written creeds, choirs, baby dedications, or the elevation of Mary to queen of heaven status . These are all man made additions. They seem innocent enough when first introduced, but they are not part of God's plan. They end up snow balling. Each is a slippery slope and ends up leading people further and further from the truth. It starts out as something simple and harmless and turns out to be a full blown false religion.

How sad that everyone can't get back to the Bible and away from traditions of men.

 

[Nada]

Good post!

There is nothing in the Bible about a Governing Body either, or confirmation, written creeds, choirs, baby dedications, or the elevation of Mary to queen of heaven status . These are all man made additions. They seem innocent enough when first introduced, but they are not part of God's plan. They end up snow balling. Each is a slippery slope and ends up leading people further and further from the truth. It starts out as something simple and harmless and turns out to be a full blown false religion.

How sad that everyone can't get back to the Bible and away from traditions of men.

Thank you.Since you brought up "governing body" I would like to show you something.

Acts 16:4,5. 4As they traveled on through the cities, they would deliver to them for observance the decrees that had been decided on by the apostles and the elders who were in Jerusalem. 5Then, indeed, the congregations continued to be made firm in the faith and to increase in number day by day.

So there were those who were,I don't want to say in charge,but they were making decisions for the rest of the congregations, based on what Jesus taught, and God's word.They would come together pray and speak about issues.One such event is documented in the holy scriptures.It is when Paul and Barnabas were chosen to travel to do preaching work.

If you read Acts 15:12-22 it is James the brother of Jesus,Peter and the rest of the apostles,also elders,making an important decision.Here is the end of the entire passage.


22Then the apostles and the elders, together with the whole congregation, decided to send chosen men from among them to Antioch, along with Paul and Bar′na·bas; they sent Judas who was called Bar′sab·bas and Silas,who were leading men among the brothers. 23They wrote this and sent it through them:

This was the governing body of that time.They made decisions in Jerusalem and sent out disciples throughout the lands.This is how they began new congregations and spread christianity.It is all one body,but important decisions are made by the elders.Spiritual guidance also comes from this governing body.Every time something occurred in a different congregation ,in a different land.Paul,being anointed by holy spirit,would write them and tell them how good or bad they were doing.He would then visit and handle things in person according to what the holy scriptures instructs.

No one is above anyone else,but there are elders and a governing body, that will handle important issues, and help the rest in time of need.



1 Cor. 12:19-26. This explains............

 

[Wharton]

No that is not it at all brother.I was merely pointing out the corruption of not only the money and political issues, but the distorted teachings as well.Humans are imperfect.Yes there are those who will make mistakes.Even some of those who walked with Christ made mistakes.Look at Peter.Judas was known to take money from the donation purse.People make mistakes in life and sin,but the teachings are still the same.Later, after Jesus and his disciples departed,many rose up and corrupted the true teachings of Christ and his disciples.People began to make their own rules and distort the truth.Now we have Christendom.This is not true Christianity that was taught by Jesus.This is man made beliefs that have no real biblical backing.The truth is there,you just have to see it without the goggles on.

Pope does not appear in the holy scriptures.Not once.Neither does christmas,easter,eucharist or transubstantiation.Peter is never mentioned as being a pope or being in Rome in the holy scriptures.Paul is mentioned being in Rome,but not Peter.Paul is mentioned in Rome in Acts 28.

Yes,one can plainly see who is really spreading the truth by the fruits they bear.One must see through all the traditions of men.For instance,baptizing at birth.One does not baptize a baby into a religion before they have had a chance to hear the truth and accept it.All throughout the holy scriptures Jesus and his disciples spoke about the Kingdom of God to those who would listen.Those who heard and accepted the word of God became baptized to show their dedication in public.They became Christians after hearing the word.Babies can not do this for they are not able to comprehend it.This is not true christianity.

Unfortunately for you, JW's strip away all of the Jewishness of Jesus. Of course infants weren't initially baptized because the apostles had to convert the adults first. So we can shoot down that theory of yours. Second, think of Christian infant baptism as the presentation/initiation of the child into the Christian community. You do remember the PRESENTATION/initiation of Jesus into the Jewish community as an infant in the bible? Same concept.

Once again, pope means father. Father is mentioned in the bible many times. So it's a translation of the word father. Shot down again. BTW, governing body, branch office, publisher, district overseer, group overseer, literature servant, magazine servant, etc aren't in the bible, but you have a problem with pope which means father? LOL.

The only people that made their own rules are JW's. Heck, you even wrote your own bible to support those rules.

Now as far as eucharist and transubstantiation, they're in the bible. Jews don't eat symbolic sacrifices. They eat the real sacrifice. There is no symbolic Passover lamb eaten at the Passover seder today. Not gonna happen. And BTW, if the emblems you pass around at your annual memorial service are mere symbols/emblems, what is your problem with allowing everyone to receive them? After all, they're just symbols/emblems and have no sacred value.

 

[Wharton]

Thank you.Since you brought up "governing body" I would like to show you something.

Acts 16:4,5. 4As they traveled on through the cities, they would deliver to them for observance the decrees that had been decided on by the apostles and the elders who were in Jerusalem. 5Then, indeed, the congregations continued to be made firm in the faith and to increase in number day by day.

So there were those who were,I don't want to say in charge,but they were making decisions for the rest of the congregations, based on what Jesus taught, and God's word.They would come together pray and speak about issues.One such event is documented in the holy scriptures.It is when Paul and Barnabas were chosen to travel to do preaching work.

If you read Acts 15:12-22 it is James the brother of Jesus,Peter and the rest of the apostles,also elders,making an important decision.Here is the end of the entire passage.


22Then the apostles and the elders, together with the whole congregation, decided to send chosen men from among them to Antioch, along with Paul and Bar′na·bas; they sent Judas who was called Bar′sab·bas and Silas,who were leading men among the brothers. 23They wrote this and sent it through them:

This was the governing body of that time.They made decisions in Jerusalem and sent out disciples throughout the lands.This is how they began new congregations and spread christianity.It is all one body,but important decisions are made by the elders.Spiritual guidance also comes from this governing body.Every time something occurred in a different congregation ,in a different land.Paul,being anointed by holy spirit,would write them and tell them how good or bad they were doing.He would then visit and handle things in person according to what the holy scriptures instructs.

No one is above anyone else,but there are elders and a governing body, that will handle important issues, and help the rest in time of need.



1 Cor. 12:19-26. This explains............

Where is your authorization from the Apostles and elders? You have none.

23 With them they sent the following letter:


The apostles and elders, your brothers,

To the Gentile believers in Antioch,AH)' data-cr="#cen-NIV-27466AH"> SyriaAI)' data-cr="#cen-NIV-27466AI"> and Cilicia:AJ)' data-cr="#cen-NIV-27466AJ">

Greetings.AK)' data-cr="#cen-NIV-27466AK">

24 We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said. 25 So we all agreed to choose some men and send them to you with our dear friends Barnabas and Paul— 26 men who have risked their lives27 for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 Therefore we are sending Judas and Silas to confirm by word of mouth what we are writing. 28 It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: 29 You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things.

Farewell.

 

[Nada]

Unfortunately for you, JW's strip away all of the Jewishness of Jesus. Of course infants weren't initially baptized because the apostles had to convert the adults first. So we can shoot down that theory of yours. Second, think of Christian infant baptism as the presentation/initiation of the child into the Christian community. You do remember the PRESENTATION/initiation of Jesus into the Jewish community as an infant in the bible? Same concept.

Once again, pope means father. Father is mentioned in the bible many times. So it's a translation of the word father. Shot down again. BTW, governing body, branch office, publisher, district overseer, group overseer, literature servant, magazine servant, etc aren't in the bible, but you have a problem with pope which means father? LOL.

The only people that made their own rules are JW's. Heck, you even wrote your own bible to support those rules.

Now as far as eucharist and transubstantiation, they're in the bible. Jews don't eat symbolic sacrifices. They eat the real sacrifice. There is no symbolic Passover lamb eaten at the Passover seder today. Not gonna happen. And BTW, if the emblems you pass around at your annual memorial service are mere symbols/emblems, what is your problem with allowing everyone to receive them? After all, they're just symbols/emblems and have no sacred value.

You are incorrect.JW's do not strip away Jesus' Jewishness.JW's stress this to the fullest.JW's have their observance of the passover/last supper on the same day the Jews did.Nisan 14th during the full moon.This is actually on the Jewish calendar.JW's follow the ways of Jehovah who is the God of Israel.The Jews are His chosen people.There is no stripping away.

You are incorrect brother about infant baptism.To do this at birth goes against everything taught by Jesus.One must first hear and understand the word of God before making a lifetime commitment to God.Once the word has been understood and accepted,then they can baptize themselves publicly to show the world.By the way,Jesus was not baptized in Jerusalem as a baby.He was circumcised 8 days after his birth at the temple in Jerusalem.He was not baptized until the age of 30 in 29C.E.Jesus was baptized as an adult by his cousin John the baptizer.

Your whole understanding of the holy scriptures has been tainted by outside influences.There are not supposed to be popes or priest on earth.The royal priesthood spoken of in the NT is referring to those who will serve with Jesus Christ.These are the anointed.

As far as Jewish customs go,there is no more eating of a literal passover lamb by true christians.That was replaced with the lords evening meal.The old passover was a covenant between Jehovah God and the Jews who fled Egypt during the Exodus.They did this in remembrance and ate it with bitter greens to always remember the bitter times they had.When Jesus came later on and established the new covenant with his disciples,he instituted the lords evening meal.Jesus became the sacrificial lamb literally and these emblems represent his body.The bread his body and the wine his blood.These are symbolic emblems.Catholicism teaches that Jesus body and blood literally appear when the eucharist/transubstantiation happens.This is absurd.When Jesus did this with his disciples,Jesus was still alive.

You need to really read and study the holy scriptures brother.There is so much you still do not understand.

 

[Nada]

Where is your authorization from the Apostles and elders? You have none.

23 With them they sent the following letter:


The apostles and elders, your brothers,

To the Gentile believers in Antioch,AH)' data-cr="#cen-NIV-27466AH"> SyriaAI)' data-cr="#cen-NIV-27466AI"> and Cilicia:AJ)' data-cr="#cen-NIV-27466AJ">

Greetings.AK)' data-cr="#cen-NIV-27466AK">

24 We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said. 25 So we all agreed to choose some men and send them to you with our dear friends Barnabas and Paul— 26 men who have risked their lives27 for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 Therefore we are sending Judas and Silas to confirm by word of mouth what we are writing. 28 It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: 29 You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things.

Farewell.

Keep reading.......

 

[Desert Snake]

The Bible doesn't make sense without a plurality of expression in the Godhead. That's why Jesus said, He was in the father, and the father in Him. does that sound like two completely 'separate individuals? No, of course not. And many things Jesus said were like that; so, Jesus is either, lying, talking in riddles, or He is in the Godhead.

 

[Nada]

The Bible doesn't make sense without a plurality of expression in the Godhead. That's why Jesus said, He was in the father, and the father in Him. does that sound like two completely 'separate individuals? No, of course not. And many things Jesus said were like that; so, Jesus is either, lying, talking in riddles, or He is in the Godhead.

Thanks, I'll be here all week.

Yes,it does sound like two separate entities.Jesus speaks of a spiritual union,not a literal one.Jesus says he is in the father and the father is in him.This is a spiritual union between two not three.It never mentions a union between three entities.Only two.Jesus is not lying,it's not a riddle.There is truth and then theres the rest.The truth is Jesus is not God.

 

[Desert Snake]

Yes,it does sound like two separate entities.Jesus speaks of a spiritual union,not a literal one.Jesus says he is in the father and the father is in him.This is a spiritual union between two not three.It never mentions a union between three entities.Only two.Jesus is not lying,it's not a riddle.There is truth and then theres the rest.The truth is Jesus is not God.

The obvious question here is, how are you deriving, spiritual union, but not ''literal''. A spiritual union with the father is literal. Everyone knows that Jesus the man, even as the image of God, is partially separated from the father. That's why he refers to the father in the first place. The 'question', here, is how one interprets the import of that union. The only way you can have a 'literal' separation, is if portions of the Bible aren't believed, or made out to be extremely metaphoric. I'm not a fan of puzzling metaphor in my religious beliefs.
//the union is necessarily ''literal'', for Jesus to be in the Father in the first place.

 

[Wharton]

You are incorrect brother about infant baptism.To do this at birth goes against everything taught by Jesus.One must first hear and understand the word of God before making a lifetime commitment to God.Once the word has been understood and accepted,then they can baptize themselves publicly to show the world.By the way,Jesus was not baptized in Jerusalem as a baby.He was circumcised 8 days after his birth at the temple in Jerusalem.He was not baptized until the age of 30 in 29C.E.Jesus was baptized as an adult by his cousin John the baptizer.

Funny. Jesus was presented to be a member of the Jewish community just as a Christian child is presented to be a member of the Christian community. As far as needing to read the bible, that would be you. Is there any pre qualification test in order to be baptized? Yet, you require the answers to 104 questions before elders in order to be baptized. How is that biblical? It's not. I don't see anyone being asked questions to be pre-qualified for baptism. Is there anything in the bible that states that infants can't be baptized?

BTW, Jesus wasn't baptized. He had no sin and no need to repent. 30 is the age required for a Jew to be confirmed as a teacher with authority. John, the Father and Holy Spirit confirmed Jesus as such in the Jordan. Read a little further in scripture after his baptism and you will read who is this one that teaches with authority and not as the scribes. Jesus went through the proper channels to receive his Semikhah. Your governing body did not. It has no Semikhah. No authorization to teach.

 

[Wharton]

As far as Jewish customs go,there is no more eating of a literal passover lamb by true christians.That was replaced with the lords evening meal.The old passover was a covenant between Jehovah God and the Jews who fled Egypt during the Exodus.They did this in remembrance and ate it with bitter greens to always remember the bitter times they had.When Jesus came later on and established the new covenant with his disciples,he instituted the lords evening meal.Jesus became the sacrificial lamb literally and these emblems represent his body.The bread his body and the wine his blood.These are symbolic emblems.Catholicism teaches that Jesus body and blood literally appear when the eucharist/transubstantiation happens.This is absurd.When Jesus did this with his disciples,Jesus was still alive.

Not absurd at all. We take the words of Jesus as they are written. We don't interpret them away as you do and hold an idolatrous memorial service in honor of a man.

Jesus knew what he was doing according to Jewish tradition. For atonement, you need a sacrifice inside the walls of Jerusalem as well as one outside the walls of Jerusalem. Jesus did both.

 

[Nada]

The obvious question here is, how are you deriving, spiritual union, but not ''literal''. A spiritual union with the father is literal. Everyone knows that Jesus the man, even as the image of God, is partially separated from the father. That's why he refers to the father in the first place. The 'question', here, is how one interprets the import of that union. The only way you can have a 'literal' separation, is if portions of the Bible aren't believed, or made out to be extremely metaphoric. I'm not a fan of puzzling metaphor in my religious beliefs.

You are mistaken.When Jesus says he and the father are one this means that Jesus does as the father does.Jesus is God's representative on earth.This does not mean that God became flesh and walked the earth then died.What this means is that God sent Jesus, and Jesus taught, then died, according to God's word.It is a spiritual union.This same union is spoken of in John 17:21 "that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me."

So to think there is any sort of literal union is absolutely incorrect.If you believe this then that means the people spoken of in John 17:21 are literally part of Jesus and God too.This is wrong.It is a spiritual union between God,Jesus and true christians.

Ps.Notice it never mentions the holy spirit as a member of this union.

 

[Nada]

Funny. Jesus was presented to be a member of the Jewish community just as a Christian child is presented to be a member of the Christian community. As far as needing to read the bible, that would be you. Is there any pre qualification test in order to be baptized? Yet, you require the answers to 104 questions before elders in order to be baptized. How is that biblical? It's not. I don't see anyone being asked questions to be pre-qualified for baptism. Is there anything in the bible that states that infants can't be baptized?

BTW, Jesus wasn't baptized. He had no sin and no need to repent. 30 is the age required for a Jew to be confirmed as a teacher with authority. John, the Father and Holy Spirit confirmed Jesus as such in the Jordan. Read a little further in scripture after his baptism and you will read who is this one that teaches with authority and not as the scribes. Jesus went through the proper channels to receive his Semikhah. Your governing body did not. It has no Semikhah. No authorization to teach.

You are still incorrect.Even 62 year olds can be wrong.104 questions? Lol..

Jesus was baptized.Just by you stating he was not renders your entire message null and void.You claim it is I who needs to read yet it is you who does not fully comprehend my brother.
Jesus was not baptized in order to cleanse sin.He was perfect.Perfect people have no sin.Jesus was baptized in order to show his dedication publically to his Father God the Almighty and to the world as a witness.

Matthew 3:13-17. 13 Then Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to be baptized by John.
14 But John tried to deter him, saying, “I need to be baptized by you, and do you come to me?”

15 Jesus replied, “Let it be so now; it is proper for us to do this to fulfill all righteousness.” Then John consented.

So according to the word of God,Jesus was baptized.You are incorrect.

It seems your hatred for others and your lack of understanding of the holy scriptures has you making false claims and pointing fingers in the wrong direction brother.If you want truth all you have to do is pray and ask God for enlightenment.