Can someone explain the Trinity please...

[Desert Snake]

You are mistaken.When Jesus says he and the father are one this means that Jesus does as the father does.Jesus is God's representative on earth.This does not mean that God became flesh and walked the earth then died.What this means is that God sent Jesus, and Jesus taught, then died, according to God's word.It is a spiritual union.This same union is spoken of in John 17:21 "that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me."

So to think there is any sort of literal union is absolutely incorrect.If you believe this then that means the people spoken of in John 17:21 are literally part of Jesus and God too.This is wrong.It is a spiritual union between God,Jesus and true christians.

Ps.Notice it never mentions the holy spirit as a member of this union.

Jesus clearly states that He is in the father, and we know the father through Him. That is obviously a 'union'. There is literally nothing in His words that indicate a 'separation', necessary to come to the conclusion of a literal 'separation'. As for the Spirit, if I called myself a 'trinitarian', hypothetically, that would be descriptive of the three personifications that are used By 'God'; actually that is partly why I don't call myself such, because it can be confusing. Also, the trinity doctrine does separate the personalities in the Godhead as distinct, so in that sense you would be more in line with the official doctrine, belief wise, than I am.
I believe there is more ''metaphor'', when referring to the father, than to the union of the Godhead. Jesus is describing how He is God, how He is the father, not how He is separate from the father. That's why He says we can't know the father except through Him. Yet, *He wasn't saying others did not know the father. This meant that they knew Jesus, previous to His physical manifestation unto Mary.
*the prophets and such.

 

[Nada]

Jesus clearly states that He is in the father, and we know the father through Him. That is obviously a 'union'. There is literally nothing in His words that indicate a 'separation', necessary to come to the conclusion of a literal 'separation'. As for the Spirit, if I called myself a 'trinitarian', hypothetically, that would be descriptive of the three personifications that are used By 'God'; actually that is partly why I don't call myself such, because it can be confusing. Also, the trinity doctrine does separate the personalities in the Godhead as distinct, so in that sense you would be more in line with the official doctrine, belief wise, than I am.
I believe there is more ''metaphor'', when referring to the father, than to the union of the Godhead. Jesus is describing how He is God, how He is the father, not how He is separate from the father. That's why He says we can't know the father except through Him. Yet, *He wasn't saying others did not know the father. This meant that they knew Jesus, previous to His physical manifestation unto Mary.
*the prophets and such.

You are still incorrect.It is not literal.It is spiritual.The holy scriptures are clear but you can not see the light.We have had this discussion many times before.I still hold my position.You have changed faiths about 4 times since I have met you.It seems you are not understanding the truth.

 

[Wharton]

You are still incorrect.Even 62 year olds can be wrong.104 questions? Lol..

Jesus was baptized.Just by you stating he was not renders your entire message null and void.You claim it is I who needs to read yet it is you who does not fully comprehend my brother.
Jesus was not baptized in order to cleanse sin.He was perfect.Perfect people have no sin.Jesus was baptized in order to show his dedication publically to his Father God the Almighty and to the world as a witness.

Matthew 3:13-17. 13 Then Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to be baptized by John.
14 But John tried to deter him, saying, “I need to be baptized by you, and do you come to me?”

15 Jesus replied, “Let it be so now; it is proper for us to do this to fulfill all righteousness.” Then John consented.

So according to the word of God,Jesus was baptized.You are incorrect.

It seems your hatred for others and your lack of understanding of the holy scriptures has you making false claims and pointing fingers in the wrong direction brother.If you want truth all you have to do is pray and ask God for enlightenment.

You don't need baptism, if you are perfect and sinless. There was no need for Jesus to be baptized. Read scripture a little further and see if you can comprehend what is going on. Read John's words. John doesn't need to be baptized to show his public dedication to God. He was already there. He is a teacher with authority. He has his own disciples/talmidim. John is stating that he needs to be approved of/baptized by Jesus as a teacher with authority as Jesus is THE teacher with authority sent by the father. To fulfill all righteousness means Jesus must be confirmed by another Jewish teacher with authority in order for people to listen to him preach. You can see that from the scriptures that follow.

As I stated before when you strip the Jewishness of Jesus out of your teachings, you're off on a tangent full of errors.

So tell us, do you or do you not have a pre-qualification test to be eligible for baptism, which is not in scripture? I'll wait for the twist.LOL

BTW, I just found out that you need a certificate from the elders indicating that a person is a candidate for baptism. How is that biblical?

 

[Nada]

You don't need baptism, if you are perfect and sinless. There was no need for Jesus to be baptized. Read scripture a little further and see if you can comprehend what is going on. Read John's words. John doesn't need to be baptized to show his public dedication to God. He was already there. He is a teacher with authority. He has his own disciples/talmidim. John is stating that he needs to be approved of/baptized by Jesus as a teacher with authority. To fulfill all righteousness means Jesus must be confirmed by another Jewish teacher with authority in order for people to listen to him preach. You can see that from the scriptures that follow.

As I stated before when you strip the Jewishness of Jesus out of your teachings, you're off on a tangent full of errors.

So tell us, do you or do you not have a pre-qualification test to be eligible for baptism, which is not in scripture? I'll wait for the twist.LOL

It seems you do not want to be incorrect.Like I said before,Jesus was perfect.Hence,sinless and in no need of baptism to rid himself of sin.This was not the case for Jesus.His baptism was to show everyone who he represents.It is a statement to the world.Jesus does not need confirmation from anyone except God.You are incorrect and will continue to be incorrect because you do not have the truth brother.You have nothing but pure speculation and this is bringing you down further into the rabbit hole.

 

[Nada]

You don't need baptism, if you are perfect and sinless. There was no need for Jesus to be baptized. Read scripture a little further and see if you can comprehend what is going on. Read John's words. John doesn't need to be baptized to show his public dedication to God. He was already there. He is a teacher with authority. He has his own disciples/talmidim. John is stating that he needs to be approved of/baptized by Jesus as a teacher with authority as Jesus is THE teacher with authority sent by the father. To fulfill all righteousness means Jesus must be confirmed by another Jewish teacher with authority in order for people to listen to him preach. You can see that from the scriptures that follow.

As I stated before when you strip the Jewishness of Jesus out of your teachings, you're off on a tangent full of errors.

So tell us, do you or do you not have a pre-qualification test to be eligible for baptism, which is not in scripture? I'll wait for the twist.LOL

BTW, I just found out that you need a certificate from the elders indicating that a person is a candidate for baptism. How is that biblical?

Yes.Some questions are asked.These questions are asked in public so the person getting baptized and the public can hear.This is a dedication process and the person getting baptized has to be sure and know what is actually happening.If a person does not understand the truth then how can they get baptized?

 

[Wharton]

Yes.Some questions are asked.These questions are asked in public so the person getting baptized and the public can hear.This is a dedication process and the person getting baptized has to be sure and know what is actually happening.If a person does not understand the truth then how can they get baptized?

Stop tap dancing. Do you or do you not have a pre-qualification test prior to being issued a certificate allowing baptism?

 

[Wharton]

It seems you do not want to be incorrect.Like I said before,Jesus was perfect.Hence,sinless and in no need of baptism to rid himself of sin.This was not the case for Jesus.His baptism was to show everyone who he represents.It is a statement to the world.Jesus does not need confirmation from anyone except God.You are incorrect and will continue to be incorrect because you do not have the truth brother.You have nothing but pure speculation and this is bringing you down further into the rabbit hole.

John's baptism was a baptism of repentence. Read scripture. So what repentence does a perfect sinless man need to make?

 

[Wharton]

Jesus does not need confirmation from anyone except God.

Then why did he wait until he was 30? Why does the gospel writer mention that age?

Why didn't Jesus blast onto the preaching scene when he was 12 and a recognized scripture genius?

 

[Nada]

Stop tap dancing. Do you or do you not have a pre-qualification test prior to being issued a certificate allowing baptism?

Well I am not a Jehovahs Witness first of all.I am not baptized.What you think of as a test is really questions that are presented to the baptism candidate to make sure they fully comprehend the situation at hand.One must pray read and accept the word of God as truth and know what God requires of you.Once all of this is fully understood,then the person can willfully become baptized.If the person has no clue, and does not understand the word of God correctly,then they must study more to fully understand.

 

[Nada]

John's baptism was a baptism of repentence. Read scripture. So what repentence does a perfect sinless man need to make?

I don't know how you do not understand it.Jesus could not have been baptized to remove sin because JESUS WAS SINLESS.Jesus' baptism was a symbol of dedication for all to witness.That is why John freaked out when Jesus wanted to get baptized.John knew that the Son of God was a perfect vessel.That is why John stated it is he whom should be be getting baptized by Jesus.Jesus quickly told John do it because it needs to be fulfilled.

 

[Wharton]

Well I am not a Jehovahs Witness first of all.I am not baptized.What you think of as a test is really questions that are presented to the baptism candidate to make sure they fully comprehend the situation at hand.One must pray read and accept the word of God as truth and know what God requires of you.Once all of this is fully understood,then the person can willfully become baptized.If the person has no clue, and does not understand the word of God correctly,then they must study more to fully understand.

Nope. Not scriptural.

 

[Nada]

Then why did he wait until he was 30? Why does the gospel writer mention that age?

Why didn't Jesus blast onto the preaching scene when he was 12 and a recognized scripture genius?

In Matt. 3:15, Jesus tells us that His baptism was "to fulfill all righteousness".Baptism is about identification, so Jesus identified with righteousness in obedience to the Mosaic Law. He was identifying himself with the sinners. John.1:31 "for this reason I come baptizing that he would be revealed to Israel."

 

[Wharton]

I don't know how you do not understand it.Jesus could not have been baptized to remove sin because JESUS WAS SINLESS.Jesus' baptism was a symbol of dedication for all to witness.That is why John freaked out when Jesus wanted to get baptized.John knew that the Son of God was a perfect vessel.That is why John stated it is he whom should be be getting baptized by Jesus.Jesus quickly told John do it because it needs to be fulfilled.

So since John's baptism was a baptism of repentence as clearly stated in scripture, Jesus was then implying that he was a sinner in being baptized by John? Or is there a Jewish 'twist' to this that the log in your eye is preventing you from seeing? John could be 'baptized' by anyone to repent of his sins. He didn't need Jesus to do that.

 

[Wharton]

In Matt. 3:15, Jesus tells us that His baptism was "to fulfill all righteousness".Baptism is about identification, so Jesus identified with righteousness in obedience to the Mosaic Law. He was identifying himself with the sinners. John.1:31 "for this reason I come baptizing that he would be revealed to Israel."

There's no requirement for baptism in Mosaic Law. Identifying himself with sinners? A perfect man? Where are you going with this? The hole gets bigger and bigger.

 

[Nada]

Nope. Not scriptural.

You can not understand the truth brother.Your mind is somewhere else.Your mission is not a spiritual one.You are on a seek and destroy mission.This is not christian like.If you want to understand the holy scriptures you must pray and ask God for spiritual help.If you truly want to know truth,this is how you do it.It is between you and God.It is obvious you really do not comprehend the holy scriptures.You have been fed the same lies as the rest of the world.There are many false doctrines about, and one must be careful not to walk down the wrong path.Remember,narrow is the path.

Matthew 7:13 "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.

A religion with billions of members is not the true way brother...........

 

[Wharton]

Well I am not a Jehovahs Witness first of all.I am not baptized.What you think of as a test is really questions that are presented to the baptism candidate to make sure they fully comprehend the situation at hand.One must pray read and accept the word of God as truth and know what God requires of you.Once all of this is fully understood,then the person can willfully become baptized.If the person has no clue, and does not understand the word of God correctly,then they must study more to fully understand.

Best that you run away from an organization that practices unscriptural baptism as fast as you can. I can just imagine what other unscriptural teachings they plan for you to believe and act upon in the future. However, if you plan to proceed, do let us know how you do on the test. Do you have to score 100% or is 70% passing?

Let us know.

 

[Wharton]

You can not understand the truth brother.Your mind is somewhere else.Your mission is not a spiritual one.You are on a seek and destroy mission.This is not christian like.If you want to understand the holy scriptures you must pray and ask God for spiritual help.If you truly want to know truth,this is how you do it.It is between you and God.It is obvious you really do not comprehend the holy scriptures.You have been fed the same lies as the rest of the world.There are many false doctrines about, and one must be careful not to walk down the wrong path.Remember,narrow is the path.

Matthew 7:13 "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.

A religion with billions of members is not the true way brother...........

What is so unscriptural about what the billions believe?

Let me help you. And it's no where near the unscriptural things you do, such as denying the all of the congregation the 'emblems.' Jesus didn't pass anyone by at the Last Supper.

Jews/Jesus=be presented as a member of the community. The billions=be baptized into the body of Christ.

Jews/Jesus=go to synagogue once a week and hear the word of God read and commented on. The billions=go to church once a week and hear the word of God read and commented on.

Jews/Jesus=Day of Atonement once a year. The billions=go to confession once a year.

Jews/Jesus=eat the Passover lamb once a year. The billions=go to communion once a year.

There you have it. Simple, huh?

 

[Wharton]

You can not understand the truth brother.Your mind is somewhere else.Your mission is not a spiritual one.You are on a seek and destroy mission.This is not christian like.

I'm here to present the truth. You're here 'chest banging' how scriptural your future organization is and I've posted info that it's not scriptural. I'm sorry that you don't like the truth but I can't help that.

Why don't you tell us why you are not baptized into the body of Christ but into an organization?

 

[Nada]

Best that you run away from an organization that practices unscriptural baptism as fast as you can. I can just imagine what other unscriptural teachings they plan for you to believe and act upon in the future. However, if you plan to proceed, do let us know how you do on the test. Do you have to score 100% or is 70% passing?

Let us know.

There are no test scores.Just yes or no verbally when asked if you understand what it is you are doing.If I were to ask you if you know God's name and you say no,do you think you are ready to be baptized to serve Him? That is exactly what these type of questions are.If you do not know truth, then it must be taught to you in order for you to serve the Most High.Once you have come to understand the message in the holy scriptures, and who God is,then you are ready to dedicate your life to Him.

 

[Kolibri]

Funny. Jesus was presented to be a member of the Jewish community just as a Christian child is presented to be a member of the Christian community. As far as needing to read the bible, that would be you. Is there any pre qualification test in order to be baptized? Yet, you require the answers to 104 questions before elders in order to be baptized. How is that biblical? It's not. I don't see anyone being asked questions to be pre-qualified for baptism. Is there anything in the bible that states that infants can't be baptized?

Being presented for circumcision and the purification requirements of the law is not baptism. Baptism is was a event in a disciple's life. An infant can not be a disciple yet. They can not even speak, let alone know enough to be a 'taught one.' Some felt that they needed to be baptized to keep the babies that died young out of some sort of incomplete afterlife. 1) there is no afterlife w/o a resurrection first. 2) the children are deemed righteous if they have one righteous parent till they can be held accountable for their own actions. (1 Cor 7:14)