Can someone explain the Trinity please...

[Katzpur]

As christians, we are to contend for the faith ONCE FOR ALL DELIVERED to the saints. We are to discern false doctrine. I am ready to stand before the Lord and be judged for passing judgement on what I know is false and for what I know contradicts the Bible. I stand by every word I wrote.

As christians, we are to contend for the faith ONCE FOR ALL DELIVERED to the saints. We are to discern false doctrine. I am ready to stand before the Lord and be judged for passing judgement on what I know is false and for what I know contradicts the Bible. I stand by every word I wrote.

Your problem is that you don't even know what it is you're standing against! You are completely uninformed about what it is you are calling a "tool of Satan." You are simply being hateful and judgmental, and neither of those qualities is the mark of someone who claims to be a follower of Jesus Christ. You are doing Him a disservice.

 

[Unification]

From the same bible that people worship, and use to oppress others with lies and arguing, and the skirt of bad fruit revealed and lifted up:

James 3:13-18King James Version (KJV)
13 Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom.

14 But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth.

15 This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.

16 For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work.

17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.

18 And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.

 

[Unification]

God speaks to us through His word.

Are you a member of the Unification church (aka Moonies)?

No, I've never heard of them before. My membership is of nothing made with hands.

 

[cataway]

You seem to put a lot of faith in the words of men, more than the actual words spoken and recorded by the Holy Spirit.

Its word for word translation, I thought you would of picked up on that

 

[JayJayDee]

You're getting close. Angels are spirit also, but of a different kind/essence. Let's put it in a simpler form. The father begets the son. They are spirits of the same 'DNA.' Angels are spirits but not of the same 'DNA.' The only difference between the father and the son is procession. The essence/nature is the same.

Still waiting for the Biblical evidence for this statement. Where will I find "essence" in the Scriptures?

Now if you understood what first century Christians did about the eternal NOW where there is no time then there is no time that God the Son (Jesus) did not exist.

Colossians 1:15-17....."He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him. He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together."

Do you understand about agency? It was "through" the agency of the "firstborn of all creation" that everything else came to be.

Revelation 3:14.....“To the angel of the church in Laodicea write:The Amen, the faithful and true Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God, says this:..."

Clearly stated....the pre-human Jesus was "the beginning of the creation of God".

BTW, if you take the 'time' to beget a son why would you want him to be inferior to you?

You seem to be hung up on the inferiority thing. All creation is inferior to the Creator. The son of God is just that...a son...he is a unique individual because he is the first and only direct creation of the Father.....all other created things were fashioned by "the master craftsman" working alongside his Father. (Prov 8:30,31) The son learned everything he knows from his Father.

Like I stated before, you need to have the NWT changed to 'only-created Son' to reflect the difference in essence/nature between the father and the son that you keep stating.

As noted in the above posts, the oldest manuscripts call Jesus "the only begotten god" because he is a "mighty one" which is what the word "theos" means. If you are going to change "theos" (god) to "huios" (son) in verse 18 then you must also do so in verse 1, which shoots the trinity down at its most vulnerable point.

There is no "essence/nature spoken about in the Bible. The "weeds" made that up. There is one Father who is God alone. All worship goes to him. (Deut 6:4; Luke 4:8)

The Father and the son are spoken of as two distinct and separate beings. One is clearly inferior to the other. One is worshipped by the other. Sent by the other. Can have a different will to the other. The Father can know things the son does not.

Even after his return to heaven, Jesus calls his Father "my God". He also called his Father "the only true God" without including himself.

"The Father is greater than I"...."I cannot do a thing of my own initiative"...."One God, the Father and one Lord Jesus Christ"..."the head of the Christ is God" ......how many more clear statements would you like? Yet there are no clear statements for the trinity....not one.

There are so many more scriptures that disprove the trinity than support it. So because the Bible does not contradict itself, all the ambiguous verses which force the trinity to fit them, must be false interpretation.

You can hang onto your trinity all you want...centuries of false teaching will never make it true.

I rest my case your honor......

 

[Wharton]

Still waiting for the Biblical evidence for this statement. Where will I find "essence" in the Scriptures?



Colossians 1:15-17....."He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him. He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together."

Do you understand about agency? It was "through" the agency of the "firstborn of all creation" that everything else came to be.

Revelation 3:14.....“To the angel of the church in Laodicea write:The Amen, the faithful and true Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God, says this:..."

Clearly stated....the pre-human Jesus was "the beginning of the creation of God".



You seem to be hung up on the inferiority thing. All creation is inferior to the Creator. The son of God is just that...a son...he is a unique individual because he is the first and only direct creation of the Father.....all other created things were fashioned by "the master craftsman" working alongside his Father. (Prov 8:30,31) The son learned everything he knows from his Father.



As noted in the above posts, the oldest manuscripts call Jesus "the only begotten god" because he is a "mighty one" which is what the word "theos" means. If you are going to change "theos" (god) to "huios" (son) in verse 18 then you must also do so in verse 1, which shoots the trinity down at its most vulnerable point.

There is no "essence/nature spoken about in the Bible. The "weeds" made that up. There is one Father who is God alone. All worship goes to him. (Deut 6:4; Luke 4:8)

The Father and the son are spoken of as two distinct and separate beings. One is clearly inferior to the other. One is worshipped by the other. Sent by the other. Can have a different will to the other. The Father can know things the son does not.

Even after his return to heaven, Jesus calls his Father "my God". He also called his Father "the only true God" without including himself.

"The Father is greater than I"...."I cannot do a thing of my own initiative"...."One God, the Father and one Lord Jesus Christ"..."the head of the Christ is God" ......how many more clear statements would you like? Yet there are no clear statements for the trinity....not one.

There are so many more scriptures that disprove the trinity than support it. So because the Bible does not contradict itself, all the ambiguous verses which force the trinity to fit them, must be false interpretation.

You can hang onto your trinity all you want...centuries of false teaching will never make it true.

I rest my case your honor......

The false teaching is yours, not mine. Once again, your NWT needs to be changed to reflect your theology/doctrine. I mentioned the need for change to 'only-created son' before. Now you need to change 'first-born' to 'first-created.' First-BORN is the result of being begotten, not created. You beget the same nature/essence, not an inferior essence/nature. That's not hard to understand. It's simple.

There is a Greek word for "first created," and it was in use at the time of Paul's writing to the Colossians. He did not use it. The Greek for "firstborn" is proto with tikto which would give us "firstborn." The Greek for "first created" would be proto with ktizo, and it is not used by Paul.

There is one stand-alone person in the Trinity. The Father. Nothing 'exists' without the Father. The Son, begotten, not created by the Father, is lesser by POSITION only. Being begotten, the son has the same nature/essence as his father.

Yes, Jesus has a 'God' as his father just as you have a human as your father. And that makes him? God by parentage

The father knows things the son does not know because they 'exist' in the eternal now. There is no past or future. When the father decides to end the world, the son will know.

Jesus worships the father on earth out of love for his father. That is something he could not do nor is he required to do in heaven.

Without a Trinity, your salvation hangs on an inferior being and that's not possible. You know, the Lord is my rock and my salvation thingee.

The father is greater by position only and because he begets, not creates the son. The trinity moves in unison. They do nothing on their own.

 

[cataway]

The false teaching is yours, not mine. Once again, your NWT needs to be changed to reflect your theology/doctrine. I mentioned the need for change to 'only-created son' before. Now you need to change 'first-born' to 'first-created.' First-BORN is the result of being begotten, not created. You beget the same nature/essence, not an inferior essence/nature. That's not hard to understand. It's simple.

There is a Greek word for "first created," and it was in use at the time of Paul's writing to the Colossians. He did not use it. The Greek for "firstborn" is proto with tikto which would give us "firstborn." The Greek for "first created" would be proto with ktizo, and it is not used by Paul.

There is one stand-alone person in the Trinity. The Father. Nothing 'exists' without the Father. The Son, begotten, not created by the Father, is lesser by POSITION only. Being begotten, the son has the same nature/essence as his father.

Yes, Jesus has a 'God' as his father just as you have a human as your father. And that makes him? God by parentage

The father knows things the son does not know because they 'exist' in the eternal now. There is no past or future. When the father decides to end the world, the son will know.

Jesus worships the father on earth out of love for his father. That is something he could not do nor is he required to do in heaven.

Without a Trinity, your salvation hangs on an inferior being and that's not possible. You know, the Lord is my rock and my salvation thingee.

The father is greater by position only and because he begets, not creates the son. The trinity moves in unison. They do nothing on their own.

oh but there is something that Jehovah did do all by him self , he caused the one called the WORD to come into existence

 

[katiemygirl]

Its word for word translation, I thought you would of picked up on that

Jehovah is not found in any extant Greek manuscript. The NWT inserted it among other words. They changed and omitted words. Under those conditions, it cannot be a word for word translation. You are free to support it. Don't expect others to.

 

[cataway]

Jehovah is not found in any extant Greek manuscript. The NWT inserted it among other words. They changed and omitted words. Under those conditions, it cannot be a word for word translation. You are free to support it. Don't expect others to.

you do know your commenting on the emphatic diaglott, the JW's did not add anything to the emphatic diaglott.
The emphatic diaglott
containing the original Greek text of what is commonly styled the New Testament (according to the recension of J.J. Griesbach) with an interlineary word for word English translation; a new emphatic version, based on the interlineary translation, on the renderings of eminent critics, and on the various readings of the Vatican manuscript no. 1209 in the Vatican Library; together with illustrative and explanatory foot notes, and a copious selection of references; to the whole of which is added a valuable alphabetical appendix.
By Benjamin Wilson.
Published 1864 by Fowler & Wells in New York .
Written in English.
Edition Notes
Other Titles Bible. N.T. English. 1864.

 

[Katzpur]

There is one stand-alone person in the Trinity. The Father. Nothing 'exists' without the Father.

Sounds as if they're not "co-eternal" then.

Jesus worships the father on earth out of love for his father. That is something he could not do nor is he required to do in heaven.

Why would He cease to do so in Heaven? You certainly can't substantiate that scripturally.

The father is greater by position only...

And you just answered the question. Jesus worships the Father because of the Father's position, not because the Son is an inferior being. He has never, however, ceased to worship Him, because He (the Father) will always be His (the Son's) God.

 

[katiemygirl]

you do know your commenting on the emphatic diaglott, the JW's did not add anything to the emphatic diaglott.
The emphatic diaglott
containing the original Greek text of what is commonly styled the New Testament (according to the recension of J.J. Griesbach) with an interlineary word for word English translation; a new emphatic version, based on the interlineary translation, on the renderings of eminent critics, and on the various readings of the Vatican manuscript no. 1209 in the Vatican Library; together with illustrative and explanatory foot notes, and a copious selection of references; to the whole of which is added a valuable alphabetical appendix.
By Benjamin Wilson.
Published 1864 by Fowler & Wells in New York .
Written in English.
Edition Notes
Other Titles Bible. N.T. English. 1864.

No, I'm commenting on the corrupt NWT.

 

[Wharton]

Sounds as if they're not "co-eternal" then.

There is no time in the eternal now so there is no time when the son did not exist. They are co-eternal.

 

[Wharton]

Why would He cease to do so in Heaven? You certainly can't substantiate that scripturally.

Because as part of the trinity they have no need to worship each other in the eternal now. They are equals in nature/essence.

 

[cataway]

No, I'm commenting on the corrupt NWT.

nope , I went back a checked . it was the emphatic diaglott that was used in my post

 

[cataway]

There is no time in the eternal now so there is no time when the son did not exist. They are co-eternal.

now ? what does now have to do with it ? fact is there was a time when there was nothing but Jehovah God , yes it was a very ,very ,very long time ago . but that's the way it was

 

[Wharton]

oh but there is something that Jehovah did do all by him self , he caused the one called the WORD to come into existence

No. He begot the word. And in the eternal now, there is no time when the Word did not 'exist.' As John states,"the Lamb slain before the foundation of the world." Wow. Jesus is there 'standing as if slain' before the world began. How can a first century man like John grasp the eternal now when some 21st century people still can't?

 

[Wharton]

now ? what does now have to do with it ? fact is there was a time when there was nothing but Jehovah God , yes it was a very ,very ,very long time ago . but that's the way it was

There is no TIME in the eternal now. There is no very ,very ,very long time ago. There is just now.

 

[Wharton]

nope , I went back a checked . it was the emphatic diaglott that was used in my post

AKA, the corrupt pre-NWT.

 

[cataway]

No. He begot the word. And in the eternal now, there is no time when the Word did not 'exist.' As John states,"the Lamb slain before the foundation of the world." Wow. Jesus is there 'standing as if slain' before the world began. How can a first century man like John grasp the eternal now when some 21st century people still can't?

yeah begot means that Jehovah caused him [the word/Jesus] to come into being. what is before begot ?

 

[cataway]

AKA, the corrupt pre-NWT.

LOL