Can someone explain the Trinity please...

[Kolibri]

"Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature." - Col 1:15 KJV
"who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation;" - ASV

I notice a problem with picking out the word "firstborn", and leaving out the prepositional phrase that comes after, and which in truth further defines "firstborn."

"of every creature" or "of all creation"

This passage defines firstborn as relating to created things. The firstborn is among the created things.

So Jesus is among the things created.

 

[Katzpur]

There is no time in the eternal now so there is no time when the son did not exist. They are co-eternal.

Was that supposed to make sense? If, as you said, "there is one stand-alone person in the Trinity -- the Father," then they are not co-eternal. The Father would have had to exist prior to the Son. That's simple logic.

 

[cataway]

There is no TIME in the eternal now. There is no very ,very ,very long time ago. There is just now.

if there was no yesterday , when were you born ??

I don't really want to know ,I'm just pondering your thinking proses

 

[Katzpur]

Because as part of the trinity they have no need to worship each other in the eternal now. They are equals in nature/essence.

Yes, they are indeed equal in nature. The idea that the Son is no longer subordinate to the Father (as He once clearly stated was the case) is in your own head and not anywhere in the Bible.

 

[Wharton]

yeah begot means that Jehovah caused him [the word/Jesus] to come into being. what is before begot ?

Nothing. Just now. ETERNALLY begotten.

 

[Katzpur]

And in the eternal now, there is no time when the Word did not 'exist.'

What on earth is "the eternal now"? Please explain the concept for all of us dummies who are hearing the phrase for the first time in our lives and are thoroughly confused.

 

[Wharton]

Yes, they are indeed equal in nature. The idea that the Son is no longer subordinate to the Father (as He once clearly stated was the case) is in your own head and not anywhere in the Bible.

Being confined in 'time' on earth, he was subordinate to the father doing the father's will. In the eternal now, he is not. His job on earth is finished. He receives the glory he had with the father from the beginning.

 

[Wharton]

if there was no yesterday , when were you born ??

I don't really want to know ,I'm just pondering your thinking proses

I'm confined to time and space just as Jesus was.

God is not confined to time and space. Based on your thought process, God has an age. How old is God? Get it yet?

 

[Kolibri]

Even after the last enemy death is done away with, Jesus will continue to reaffirm that he is not equal to God by stepping down from the authority given him.

"Next, the end, when he hands over the Kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power. For he must rule as king until God has put all enemies under his feet. And the last enemy, death, is to be brought to nothing. For God "subjected all things under his feet." But when he says that 'all things have been subjected.' it is evident that this does not include the One who subjected all things to him. But when all things will have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him, that God may be all things to everyone." - 1 Cor 15:24-28

Holman Bible puts it this way:

"Then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to God the Father, when He abolishes all rule and all authority and power. For He must reign until He puts all His enemies under His feet. The last enemy to be abolished is death. For God has put everything under His feet. But when it says “everything” is put under Him, it is obvious that He who puts everything under Him is the exception. And when everything is subject to Christ, then the Son Himself will also be subject to the One who subjected everything to Him, so that God may be all in all."

The Holman could have been slightly clearer by being a bit choosier in when it used "H" for "Him" but otherwise it is very clear that Jesus will step aside so all authority reverts to the One that gave it to him.
Jesus is the receiver of authority and he will only keep it temporarily. God never stops having authority. They do not appear equal to me.

And this shows that the glorified Son is still subject to time as this event is still future.

 

[Wharton]

What on earth is "the eternal now"? Please explain the concept for all of us dummies who are hearing the phrase for the first time in our lives and are thoroughly confused.

God is not confined to time and space. Does God have an age? How old is God? If you can answer those questions, then there is no eternal now.

John the apostle understood the eternal now when he wrote that Jesus was the lamb slain before the foundation of the world. There you go. Jesus, the Lamb, was in the eternal now, slain before the world was created. The eternal now.

 

[Katzpur]

Being confined in 'time' on earth, he was subordinate to the father doing the father's will. In the eternal now, he is not.

Why is He not? And where in the Bible are we told that He is not? Look, you can believe whatever you want, but don't try to pretend that the Bible teaches what you believe with regards to the Father and the Son being co-eternal. Any time one thing "precedes from" another thing, the thing it "preceded from" absolutely has to exist first.

His job on earth is finished. He receives the glory he had with the father from the beginning.

So what? He has received His Father's glory. He has not received his Father's position.

 

[Katzpur]

God is not confined to time and space. Does God have an age? How old is God?

Well, since I've never claimed to be omniscient myself, I'll be the first to admit that I don't know how old God is. I'll tell you one thing, though: He's a lot older than you are.

John the apostle understood the eternal now when he wrote that Jesus was the lamb slain before the foundation of the world. There you go. Jesus, the Lamb, was in the eternal now, slain before the world was created.

John knew that Jesus had been designated as the Savior of the World even before the world was created. This nonsense about "the eternal now" is just some concept you've dreamed up.

 

[cataway]

Being confined in 'time' on earth, he was subordinate to the father doing the father's will. In the eternal now, he is not. His job on earth is finished. He receives the glory he had with the father from the beginning.

your thinking does not agree with what's down in scripture , his job is not yet done

24 Next, the end, when he hands over the kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power. 25 For he must rule as king until [God] has put all enemies under his feet. 26 As the last enemy, death is to be brought to nothing. 27 For [God] “subjected all things under his feet.” But when he says that ‘all things have been subjected,’ it is evident that it is with the exception of the one who subjected all things to him. 28 But when all things will have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him, that God may be all things to everyone.

for starters the end has not yet happened

 

[Wharton]

Even after the last enemy death is done away with, Jesus will continue to reaffirm that he is not equal to God by stepping down from the authority given him.

"Next, the end, when he hands over the Kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power. For he must rule as king until God has put all enemies under his feet. And the last enemy, death, is to be brought to nothing. For God "subjected all things under his feet." But when he says that 'all things have been subjected.' it is evident that this does not include the One who subjected all things to him. But when all things will have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him, that God may be all things to everyone." - 1 Cor 15:24-28

Holman Bible puts it this way:

"Then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to God the Father, when He abolishes all rule and all authority and power. For He must reign until He puts all His enemies under His feet. The last enemy to be abolished is death. For God has put everything under His feet. But when it says “everything” is put under Him, it is obvious that He who puts everything under Him is the exception. And when everything is subject to Christ, then the Son Himself will also be subject to the One who subjected everything to Him, so that God may be all in all."

The Holman could have been slightly clearer by being a bit choosier in when it used "H" for "Him" but otherwise it is very clear that Jesus will step aside so all authority reverts to the One that gave it to him.

Jesus is the receiver of authority and he will only keep it temporarily. God never stops having authority. They do not appear equal to me.

Jesus is back in time and space on earth doing the father's will. This is the last time that he will be on earth as mediator between God and man and subject to the father's will. The kingdom is subject to and handed over to Jesus, the mediator between God and man. Jesus, the mediator between God and man, hands the kingdom over (subject to) to the father.

BTW, God does stop having authority. Jesus, as God incarnate, gave up his authority when he was incarnated to do the father's will. It's that, not my will but your will be done thingee.That's giving up authority.

 

[Kolibri]

Jesus is back in time and space on earth doing the father's will. This is the last time that he will be on earth as mediator between God and man and subject to the father's will. The kingdom is subject to and handed over to Jesus, the mediator between God and man. Jesus, the mediator between God and man, hands the kingdom over (subject to) to the father.

BTW, God does stop having authority. Jesus, as God incarnate, gave up his authority when he was incarnated to do the father's will. It's that, not my will but your will be done thingee.That's giving up authority.

Jehovah never stops having ultimate authority. That is why the second psalm say the son is his king. (Ps 2:2c,3,6,11,12) And the Ancient of Days give authority to the chosen son of man. (Da 7:13,14) And the Mount of Olives is symbolically split into two mountains, (that is two authorities, one subservient and harmonic to the other) at Zechariah 14:3,4.

Wonder why the son of man at Daniel 7:13 is not called the Ancient of Days. Maybe because he is not the King of Eternity? (1 Timothy 1:17; Re 15:3)

 

[Wharton]

your thinking does not agree with what's down in scripture , his job is not yet done

24 Next, the end, when he hands over the kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power. 25 For he must rule as king until [God] has put all enemies under his feet. 26 As the last enemy, death is to be brought to nothing. 27 For [God] “subjected all things under his feet.” But when he says that ‘all things have been subjected,’ it is evident that it is with the exception of the one who subjected all things to him. 28 But when all things will have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him, that God may be all things to everyone.

for starters the end has not yet happened

I should have been clearer as I was posting on the eternal now in that post. As I stated, being confined in time and space on earth, regarding the father's will for the redemption of man, his job/mission on earth is finished ("it is finished" from the cross). The second coming is something that I'll probably never see or have to be concerned about. I'll be dead and gone long before that comes around.

 

[Wharton]

Well, since I've never claimed to be omniscient myself, I'll be the first to admit that I don't know how old God is. I'll tell you one thing, though: He's a lot older than you are.

John knew that Jesus had been designated as the Savior of the World even before the world was created. This nonsense about "the eternal now" is just some concept you've dreamed up.

You're LDS?

Here's your first article of faith.

We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.

Eternal is timeless. Timeless is just now. Eternal now. No time. Maybe the eternal is? I don't care.

There is no time for God. Just now.

 

[Katzpur]

You're LDS?

Here's your first article of faith.

We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.

Eternal is timeless.

Yeah, eternal is timeless. Eternal is forever, having no beginning and no end. And I have never said otherwise. I'm not sure what this has to do with the doctrine of the Trinity, though.

 

[Wharton]

Why is He not? And where in the Bible are we told that He is not? Look, you can believe whatever you want, but don't try to pretend that the Bible teaches what you believe with regards to the Father and the Son being co-eternal. Any time one thing "precedes from" another thing, the thing it "preceded from" absolutely has to exist first.

So what? He has received His Father's glory. He has not received his Father's position.

There is no pre-God or post-God. Would you agree? There is only now-God, not bound by time or space. Everything happens all at once in now-God's 'life' as there is no time, past or future. So when did the son not exist in the eternal now? Answer: Never. Co-eternal.

I never stated that the son received the father's position. The son is not the father.

 

[Wharton]

You were q

Yeah, eternal is timeless. Eternal is forever, having no beginning and no end. And I have never said otherwise. I'm not sure what this has to do with the doctrine of the Trinity, though.

You were questioning me on the concept of the eternal now, not the trinity.