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Can someone explain the Trinity please...

crazyrussian

No stranger to this topic
"
I was talking to a Lutheran Pastor the other day and he said God provided the greatest gift when he offered himself up as Jesus on the cross. But from what I read in the Bible, when Jesus was on the cross, he spoke to God in heaven. How then can he be God at the same time? Please explain. Thanks

I think Jesus explains the trinity very well in this ancient text:


Jesus Again Teaches His Disciples
Concerning The Nature Of God
The Two In One

"1. AGAIN Jesus taught them saying, God hath raised up witnesses to the truth in every
nation and every age, that all might know the will of the Eternal and do it, and after that,
enter into the kingdom, to be rulers and workers with the Eternal, 2. God is Power, Love and Wisdom, and these three are One. God is Truth, Goodness and Beauty, and these three are One. 3. God is Justice, Knowledge and Purity, and these three are One. God is Splendor,
Compassion and Holiness, and these three are One. 4. And these four Trinities are One in the hidden Deity, the Perfect, the Infinite, the Only. 5. Likewise in every man who is perfected, there are three persons, that of the son, that of the spouse. and that of the father, and these three are one. 6. So in every woman who is Perfected are there three persons, that of the daughter, that of the bride, and that of the mother and these three are one; and the man and the woman are one, even as God is One 7. Thus it is with God the Father-Mother, in Whom is neither male nor female and in Whom is both, and each is threefold, and all are One in the hidden Unity. 8. Marvel not at this, for as it is above so it is below, and as it is below so it is above, and that which is on earth is so, because it is so in Heaven. 9. Again I say unto you, I and My Bride are one, even as Maria Magdalena, whom I have chosen and sanctified unto Myself as a type, is one with Me; I and My Church are One. And the Church is the elect of humanity for the salvation of all. 10. The Church of the first born is the Maria of God. Thus saith the Eternal, She is My Mother and she hath ever conceived Me, and brought Me forth as Her Son in every age and clime. She is My Bride, ever one in Holy Union with Me her Spouse. She is My Daughter, for she hath ever issued and proceeded from Me her Father, rejoicing in Me. 11. And these two Trinities are One in the Eternal, and are strewn forth in each man and woman who are made perfect, ever being born of God, and rejoicing in light, ever being lifted up and made one with God, ever conceiving and bringing forth God for the salvation of the many. 12. This is the Mystery of the Trinity in Humanity, and moreover in every individual child of man must be accomplished the mystery of God, ever witnessing to the light, suffering for the truth, ascending into Heaven, and sending forth the Spirit of Truth And this is the path of salvation, for the kingdom of God is within."

Clearly Jesus was born according to the flesh, just as each of us were born according to the flesh but a son of God after being the firstborn from the dead. He became a son of God just as we are to be children of God after spiritual re-birth.
 

Kolibri

Well-Known Member
"

I think Jesus explains the trinity very well in this ancient text:


Jesus Again Teaches His Disciples
Concerning The Nature Of God
The Two In One

"1. AGAIN Jesus taught them saying, God hath raised up witnesses to the truth in every
nation and every age, that all might know the will of the Eternal and do it, and after that,
enter into the kingdom, to be rulers and workers with the Eternal, 2. God is Power, Love and Wisdom, and these three are One. God is Truth, Goodness and Beauty, and these three are One. 3. God is Justice, Knowledge and Purity, and these three are One. God is Splendor,
Compassion and Holiness, and these three are One. 4. And these four Trinities are One in the hidden Deity, the Perfect, the Infinite, the Only. 5. Likewise in every man who is perfected, there are three persons, that of the son, that of the spouse. and that of the father, and these three are one. 6. So in every woman who is Perfected are there three persons, that of the daughter, that of the bride, and that of the mother and these three are one; and the man and the woman are one, even as God is One 7. Thus it is with God the Father-Mother, in Whom is neither male nor female and in Whom is both, and each is threefold, and all are One in the hidden Unity. 8. Marvel not at this, for as it is above so it is below, and as it is below so it is above, and that which is on earth is so, because it is so in Heaven. 9. Again I say unto you, I and My Bride are one, even as Maria Magdalena, whom I have chosen and sanctified unto Myself as a type, is one with Me; I and My Church are One. And the Church is the elect of humanity for the salvation of all. 10. The Church of the first born is the Maria of God. Thus saith the Eternal, She is My Mother and she hath ever conceived Me, and brought Me forth as Her Son in every age and clime. She is My Bride, ever one in Holy Union with Me her Spouse. She is My Daughter, for she hath ever issued and proceeded from Me her Father, rejoicing in Me. 11. And these two Trinities are One in the Eternal, and are strewn forth in each man and woman who are made perfect, ever being born of God, and rejoicing in light, ever being lifted up and made one with God, ever conceiving and bringing forth God for the salvation of the many. 12. This is the Mystery of the Trinity in Humanity, and moreover in every individual child of man must be accomplished the mystery of God, ever witnessing to the light, suffering for the truth, ascending into Heaven, and sending forth the Spirit of Truth And this is the path of salvation, for the kingdom of God is within."

Clearly Jesus was born according to the flesh, just as each of us were born according to the flesh but a son of God after being the firstborn from the dead. He became a son of God just as we are to be children of God after spiritual re-birth.
Hi @crazyrussian , could you cite the location of this passage? thanks.
 

JayJayDee

Avid JW Bible Student
You think you are just one entity? Antichrist comes in all form of entities or groups of cults like yours.

Mt 12:26 If Satan drives out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then can his kingdom stand?

What if you just described Christendom? o_O The antichrist is not a new entity. He is ancient.

Never predicted the end of the world? Are you sure about that?

This is just one of the many links about JW’s failed predictions.

Predictions of the end of the world by Jehovah's Witnesses: 1914 to 1920

1914-1920......seriously? Those early days were just the beginning of our understanding. When Daniel foretold the "cleansing, whitening and refining" of God's worshippers in "the time of the end" he was telling us about processes which were going to take place in that period. (Dan 12:4, 9, 10) Just as in the first century, details of the "sacred mystery" did not all come at once. It was an exciting time to read and understand scripture with new eyes....cleansed ones. It was amazing to understand where Christendom had gleaned her doctrines....not from the Bible but from apostate Roman Catholicism....the mother church. The a acorn does not fall far from the tree.

'Cleansing, whitening and refining' are all processes that take time and in those early days, the picture was not clear. As time has progressed, the "light on the path" has illuminated many things, just as the scriptures said. (Prov 4:18)

I have been a Witness of Jehovah now for 43 years and in that time we have had more and more light shed on our path. Unlike Christendom who has not cleansed herself for centuries, we continue to keep on the watch and make adjustments to our understanding as the slave reveals more details.
Jesus is the one who assigned that slave to "feed" his household their "food at the proper time". ( Matt 24:42-47) This suggests that what we need to know will be provided at the time we need to know it.

Who is Christendom's faithful slave? Who feeds Christendom their "food" which is stale and hasn't changed for centuries? Where is their cleansing and refining? Where is their unity? (1 Cor 1:10) Where is their love? (John 13:34, 35)
 

crazyrussian

No stranger to this topic
Hi @crazyrussian , could you cite the location of this passage? thanks.

The holy spirit. The holy spirit brings to remembrance ALL things Jesus said.

The below elaborates further on the matter.


"And one of them said, Master, it is written of old, The Elohim made man in Their own
image, male and female created They them. How sayest thou then that God is one? And
Jesus said unto them, Verily, I said unto you, In God there is neither male nor female and
yet both are one, and God is the Two in One. He is She and She is He. The Alohim—our
God—is perfect, Infinite, and One.3. As in the man, the Father is manifest, and the Mother hidden; so in the woman, the Mother is manifest, and the Father hidden. Therefore shall the name of the Father and the Mother be equally hallowed, for They are the great Powers of God, and the one is not without the other, in the One God. 4. Adore ye God, above you, beneath you, on the right hand, on the left hand before you, behind you, within you, around you. Verily, there is but One God, Who is All in All, and in Whom all things do consist, the Fount of all Life and all Substance, without beginning and without end. 5. The things which are seen and pass away are The manifestations of the unseen which are eternal, that from the visible things of Nature ye may reach to the invisible things of the Godhead; and by that which is natural, attain to that which is spiritual. 6. Verily, the Elohim created man in the divine image male and female, and all nature is in the Image of God, therefore is God both male and female, not divided, but the Two in One, Undivided and Eternal, by Whom and in Whom are all things, visible and invisible. 7. From the Eternal they flow, to the Eternal they return. The spirit to Spirit, soul to Soul, mind to Mind, sense to Sense, life to Life, form to Form, dust to Dust. 8. In the beginning God willed and there came forth the beloved Son, the divine Love, and the beloved Daughter, the holy Wisdom, equally proceeding from the One Eternal Fount; and of these are the generations of the Spirits of God, the Sons and Daughters of the Eternal. 9. And These descend to earth, and dwell with men and teach them the ways of God, to love the laws of the Eternal, and obey them, that in them they may find salvation. 10. Many nations have seen their day. Under divers names have they been revealed to them, and they have rejoiced in their light; and even now they come again unto you, but Israel received them not. 11. Verily I say unto you, my twelve whom I have chosen, that which hath been taught by them of old time is true—though corrupted by the foolish imaginations of men. 12. Again, Jesus spoke unto Mary Magdalene saying, It is written in the law, Whoso leaves father or mother, let him die the death. Now the law speaks not of the parents in this life, but of the Indweller of light which is in us unto this day. 13. Whoso therefore forsakes Christ the Savior, the Holy law, and the body of the Elect, let them die the death. Yea, let them be lost in the outer darkness, for so they willed and none can hinder."
 

Kolibri

Well-Known Member
The holy spirit. The holy spirit brings to remembrance ALL things Jesus said.

The below elaborates further on the matter.


"And one of them said, Master, it is written of old, The Elohim made man in Their own
image, male and female created They them. How sayest thou then that God is one? And
Jesus said unto them, Verily, I said unto you, In God there is neither male nor female and
yet both are one, and God is the Two in One. He is She and She is He. The Alohim—our
God—is perfect, Infinite, and One.3. As in the man, the Father is manifest, and the Mother hidden; so in the woman, the Mother is manifest, and the Father hidden. Therefore shall the name of the Father and the Mother be equally hallowed, for They are the great Powers of God, and the one is not without the other, in the One God. 4. Adore ye God, above you, beneath you, on the right hand, on the left hand before you, behind you, within you, around you. Verily, there is but One God, Who is All in All, and in Whom all things do consist, the Fount of all Life and all Substance, without beginning and without end. 5. The things which are seen and pass away are The manifestations of the unseen which are eternal, that from the visible things of Nature ye may reach to the invisible things of the Godhead; and by that which is natural, attain to that which is spiritual. 6. Verily, the Elohim created man in the divine image male and female, and all nature is in the Image of God, therefore is God both male and female, not divided, but the Two in One, Undivided and Eternal, by Whom and in Whom are all things, visible and invisible. 7. From the Eternal they flow, to the Eternal they return. The spirit to Spirit, soul to Soul, mind to Mind, sense to Sense, life to Life, form to Form, dust to Dust. 8. In the beginning God willed and there came forth the beloved Son, the divine Love, and the beloved Daughter, the holy Wisdom, equally proceeding from the One Eternal Fount; and of these are the generations of the Spirits of God, the Sons and Daughters of the Eternal. 9. And These descend to earth, and dwell with men and teach them the ways of God, to love the laws of the Eternal, and obey them, that in them they may find salvation. 10. Many nations have seen their day. Under divers names have they been revealed to them, and they have rejoiced in their light; and even now they come again unto you, but Israel received them not. 11. Verily I say unto you, my twelve whom I have chosen, that which hath been taught by them of old time is true—though corrupted by the foolish imaginations of men. 12. Again, Jesus spoke unto Mary Magdalene saying, It is written in the law, Whoso leaves father or mother, let him die the death. Now the law speaks not of the parents in this life, but of the Indweller of light which is in us unto this day. 13. Whoso therefore forsakes Christ the Savior, the Holy law, and the body of the Elect, let them die the death. Yea, let them be lost in the outer darkness, for so they willed and none can hinder."

Obviously from the verse numbers this is written down somewhere? but you only cite the "holy spirit" Could you please point me to where I can see this passage in context?
 

JayJayDee

Avid JW Bible Student
Obviously from the verse numbers this is written down somewhere? but you only cite the "holy spirit" Could you please point me to where I can see this passage in context?
Just Googled it. From "The Gospel of the Holy Twelve" ???? Never heard of it. So not part of the Bible canon.
 

JayJayDee

Avid JW Bible Student
To put this simply, if Jesus Christ were to walk into your congregation and most others, and begin to preach, you all would deem him a heretic, a false teacher, he'd be mocked and laughed at.

Not in our congregations he wouldn't. We already fit that description from Christendom's point of view, so he would be right at home with us. :D

The revelation of literal, earthly, wordly, historical lesson wisdom is upon. Many blessings to you, friend.

If you don't understand that God's purpose in Eden was to have material beings inhabit a material earth in a material universe and that he actually has wonderful plans for all of it that will be seen on into eternity, then you have the wrong glasses on. The earth was meant to be our permanent home....some rebels derailed that original purpose but only temporarily.

Initially, there was no reason for humans to go to heaven at all. There was no heaven or hell mentioned and only one cause of death. If the first humans had obeyed, no one would ever have had to die. The means to keep living forever in the flesh was right there in the garden. (Gen 3:22-24)

There would have been no need for Christ to come as a human, no need of a savior or a sacrifice, no need for a kingdom. Go back to Genesis and see. All of that was indicated only as a result of Adam's disobedience. (Rom 5:12)

Take your blinkers off. :)
 

katiemygirl

CHRISTIAN
Your turn, Since things written by the Spirit of God are to be taken literally, earthly, and as a historical lesson, placing God's thoughts as equal with your thoughts......
Since, I am told I disrespect the creation story and show lack of respect for scripture.... Tell me where Cain's wife came from? Saying he slept with Eve, his mother with incest, because no law was yet applied, is not adequate .... This would be disrespecting the "Word of God" written by God's spirit, validating incest. . And creating your own scripture.
The Bible does not tell us where Cain's wife came from. We can speculate till the cows come home, but we are left with nothing but assumptions and opinions. My question to you would be what does it matter? Either we have faith in what God's word says or we don't. The choice is ours.
 

katiemygirl

CHRISTIAN
"

I think Jesus explains the trinity very well in this ancient text:


Jesus Again Teaches His Disciples
Concerning The Nature Of God
The Two In One

"1. AGAIN Jesus taught them saying, God hath raised up witnesses to the truth in every
nation and every age, that all might know the will of the Eternal and do it, and after that,
enter into the kingdom, to be rulers and workers with the Eternal, 2. God is Power, Love and Wisdom, and these three are One. God is Truth, Goodness and Beauty, and these three are One. 3. God is Justice, Knowledge and Purity, and these three are One. God is Splendor,
Compassion and Holiness, and these three are One. 4. And these four Trinities are One in the hidden Deity, the Perfect, the Infinite, the Only. 5. Likewise in every man who is perfected, there are three persons, that of the son, that of the spouse. and that of the father, and these three are one. 6. So in every woman who is Perfected are there three persons, that of the daughter, that of the bride, and that of the mother and these three are one; and the man and the woman are one, even as God is One 7. Thus it is with God the Father-Mother, in Whom is neither male nor female and in Whom is both, and each is threefold, and all are One in the hidden Unity. 8. Marvel not at this, for as it is above so it is below, and as it is below so it is above, and that which is on earth is so, because it is so in Heaven. 9. Again I say unto you, I and My Bride are one, even as Maria Magdalena, whom I have chosen and sanctified unto Myself as a type, is one with Me; I and My Church are One. And the Church is the elect of humanity for the salvation of all. 10. The Church of the first born is the Maria of God. Thus saith the Eternal, She is My Mother and she hath ever conceived Me, and brought Me forth as Her Son in every age and clime. She is My Bride, ever one in Holy Union with Me her Spouse. She is My Daughter, for she hath ever issued and proceeded from Me her Father, rejoicing in Me. 11. And these two Trinities are One in the Eternal, and are strewn forth in each man and woman who are made perfect, ever being born of God, and rejoicing in light, ever being lifted up and made one with God, ever conceiving and bringing forth God for the salvation of the many. 12. This is the Mystery of the Trinity in Humanity, and moreover in every individual child of man must be accomplished the mystery of God, ever witnessing to the light, suffering for the truth, ascending into Heaven, and sending forth the Spirit of Truth And this is the path of salvation, for the kingdom of God is within."

Clearly Jesus was born according to the flesh, just as each of us were born according to the flesh but a son of God after being the firstborn from the dead. He became a son of God just as we are to be children of God after spiritual re-birth.
And this ancient text is?
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
Good Morning! May God be with you and yours today. It's a new day. Let's try to have a Christ like spirit towards one another. Let us both behave as God would have us do. Deal?
I would like that very much.

After reading your explanations (several times over) yesterday about how you view the trinity, I am still confused. In many ways, it sounded like we were saying the same things.
We are saying many of the same things. I believe the problem is more a result of how we define our terms than anything else. In speaking to people with the same religious backgrounds, we know that they understand the words we use in exactly the same way as we do, and we often forget that other people may be using these words a bit differently.

I hope you don't mind discussing it again with me. I really do sincerely want to understand what you believe.
If you really do want to understand, you will find me to have an almost infinite amount of patience in explaining it.

This is my view of God. Tell me what don't you agree with, because I think this is how people see what they term "the trinity."

There is ONE God.
Agreed, provided "God" is understood to be a title which can be applied to any of three divine persons. Already, though, things get confusing: If someone were to ask what a divine person is, the logical answer would be that a divine person is a god. When speaking of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost, each of whom is a "divine person" (i.e. a "god"), we say they are "God," and we say they are "one." I would assume that you use the word "God" (with a capital 'G') to refer to any of these three persons individually or to refer to all three collectively. You would probably be entirely comfortable in saying that Jesus is God but still making some kind of a distinction between Him and the Holy Ghost, for instance. We would too, although most of the time, when we use the word "God," we are referring to God the Father. Typically, we use the title "Lord" to refer to Jesus Christ.

God exists in three co-existent, co-eternal distinct persons.
I would say that quite adequately describes the Mormon belief, although we don't generally use that terminology.

The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are not parts of God. Each of them is fully and completely God. Each is divine in nature.
We believe that, too.

They are identical in essence (attributes and characteristics).
Mormons believe they are identical in all of the attributes and characteristic that are associated with divinity. In other words, none of them is more divine than the others. We don't use the word "essence" in speaking of God, and to us, the word is confusing (as is the word "substance"). When I use these words (especially "substance") I tend to think of the physical. To me, water is a substance, as are soil, wool, honey and Jello pudding. When Trinitarians say that the Father, Son and Holy Ghost are "one substance," it doesn't make sense to us, and we don't see it as having any biblical foundation. The Son, for instance, has a physical (although immortal body); the Holy Ghost does not. To us, that means they are not "made of the same substance." If, by substance or essence you are referring to non-physical attributes, then I believe we are pretty much on the same page.

We do believe, though (and I think this may be where we differ from you) that when Jesus referred to His Father as His God, that was because of how He saw Him -- not just at that moment but forever. The Bible is full of examples where the Father sends the Son (never the reverse), the Son does the Father's will (never the other way around), the Son prays to the Father (never the Father to the Son). We believe that their relationship today is what it always was -- one where the Son does, in fact, see His Father as being the greater of the two. Now this is not saying that the Father is "more divine" than the Son or more of any of the qualities that make them both "God." God told us to honor our parents; we believe that the Father is Jesus' Father and God and that He looks up to Him.

They are ONE.
Yes, we believe they are "one." However, there are numerous instances where the word "one" is found in the scriptures denoting a unity which is not physical:

Exodus 24:3 says, "And Moses came and told the people all the words of the LORD, and all the judgments: and all the people answered with one voice, and said, All the words which the LORD hath said will we do."

2 Corinthians 13:11 says, "Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you."

Acts 4:32 states, "And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common."

In each of these examples, the word "one" is used to describe a unity that has nothing to do with the numeral "1". We believe that the Father, Son and Holy Ghost are "one" in every aspect except the physical, in which they are three. Their unity of will, purpose, mind and heart is perfect and absolute.

Even the Book of Mormon is very clear in saying that they are "one God": It says, "And he hath brought to pass the redemption of the world, whereby he that is found guiltless before him at the judgment day hath it given unto him to dwell in the presence of God in his kingdom, to sing ceaseless praises with the choirs above, unto the Father, and unto the Son, and unto the Holy Ghost, which are one God, in a state of happiness which hath no end.

I also need you to clarify two things for me please. Do you believe Jesus was created?
No. We see Him as the Creator of our universe, under His Father's direction.

Is Jesus God?
We believe that "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." To us that means: Jesus was "the Word." He existed "in the beginning." He was with someone known as "God" at that time. He was "God" himself at that time. We don't believe that He became God when He was born, when He was baptized, at the Transfiguration or at the Resurrection. He was God all along.

Thanks in advance. I really do want us to have a respectful conversation.
You're very welcome. I'd like for us to have a respectful conversation, too. I'm sorry I was unable to get to your post until now. It's been a hectic day and this is the first time I've been online.

The Doctrine and Covenants, which is another book within our canon, has one section in which we have the words of Jesus Christ, speaking of the night He was arrested, when He was praying to His Father in Gethsemane. In this passage, He refers to himself as "God". It says, "For behold, I, God, have suffered these things for all, that they might not suffer if they would repent; But if they would not repent they must suffer even as I; Which suffering caused myself, even God, the greatest of all, to tremble because of pain, and to bleed at every pore, and to suffer both body and spirit—and would that I might not drink the bitter cup, and shrink— Nevertheless, glory be to the Father, and I partook and finished my preparations unto the children of men."
 
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Wharton

Active Member
What if you just described Christendom? o_O The antichrist is not a new entity. He is ancient.



1914-1920......seriously? Those early days were just the beginning of our understanding. When Daniel foretold the "cleansing, whitening and refining" of God's worshippers in "the time of the end" he was telling us about processes which were going to take place in that period. (Dan 12:4, 9, 10) Just as in the first century, details of the "sacred mystery" did not all come at once. It was an exciting time to read and understand scripture with new eyes....cleansed ones. It was amazing to understand where Christendom had gleaned her doctrines....not from the Bible but from apostate Roman Catholicism....the mother church. The a acorn does not fall far from the tree.

'Cleansing, whitening and refining' are all processes that take time and in those early days, the picture was not clear. As time has progressed, the "light on the path" has illuminated many things, just as the scriptures said. (Prov 4:18)

I have been a Witness of Jehovah now for 43 years and in that time we have had more and more light shed on our path. Unlike Christendom who has not cleansed herself for centuries, we continue to keep on the watch and make adjustments to our understanding as the slave reveals more details.
Jesus is the one who assigned that slave to "feed" his household their "food at the proper time". ( Matt 24:42-47) This suggests that what we need to know will be provided at the time we need to know it.

Who is Christendom's faithful slave? Who feeds Christendom their "food" which is stale and hasn't changed for centuries? Where is their cleansing and refining? Where is their unity? (1 Cor 1:10) Where is their love? (John 13:34, 35)
Truth never changes. Only error needs continual correction.
 

Wharton

Active Member
How did God manifest Himself in John 1:1-18? In verse 14 it explicitly says “and the Word became flesh”.

IOW, “and the Word was God” in verse 1 manifested or revealed Himself in a form of a man or took a bodily form or “manifested in the flesh -1Ti 3:16, John 1:14, Col 2:9” and that is the meaning of incarnation.

Before a spirit can manifest to a physical sense it needs to incarnate or change into a bodily form otherwise, our physical sense, our eyes, cannot see this spirit.

COL 2:9 For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,

Please read again.

Jn 1:6 There came a man who was sent from God; his name was John.

Jn 1:7 He/John came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all men might believe.

Jn 1:8 He/John himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light.

Correct. In order to know God, we must be able to perceive God. Hence the incarnation.

The perfect man ransom that JW's tout that is equal to Adam would cover only the sin of Adam. Who covers the rest of mankind's sins? Paul knew when he said that the Gift was greater than the transgression. Jesus must be greater than Adam, not equal. But they'll never figure that one out. LOL
 

Kolibri

Well-Known Member
Correct. In order to know God, we must be able to perceive God. Hence the incarnation.

The perfect man ransom that JW's tout that is equal to Adam would cover only the sin of Adam. Who covers the rest of mankind's sins? Paul knew when he said that the Gift was greater than the transgression. Jesus must be greater than Adam, not equal. But they'll never figure that one out. LOL

What is there to get? Had children been born to Adam and Eve prior to their rebellion, then those children would have been born without the unavoidable propensity to sin. By replacing Adam, Jesus becomes our "Eternal Father", in that repentant mankind may inherit the right to live with sin totally avoidable from his adoption. (Isaiah 9:6) For now we just need to endure and grow in "accurate knowledge" and to be involved "in holy acts of conduct and deeds of godly devotion" awaiting the time when there will be a true "healing of the nations" after "the day of Jehovah." (1 Tim 2:4; 2 Pe 3:11; Re 22:2)

Meanwhile sinless blood is worth more than sinful blood so we, like Paul, can take the ransom personally. Paul said the Son of God "loved me and handed himself over for me." (Ga 2:20)
 

Unification

Well-Known Member
Not in our congregations he wouldn't. We already fit that description from Christendom's point of view, so he would be right at home with us. :D



If you don't understand that God's purpose in Eden was to have material beings inhabit a material earth in a material universe and that he actually has wonderful plans for all of it that will be seen on into eternity, then you have the wrong glasses on. The earth was meant to be our permanent home....some rebels derailed that original purpose but only temporarily.

Initially, there was no reason for humans to go to heaven at all. There was no heaven or hell mentioned and only one cause of death. If the first humans had obeyed, no one would ever have had to die. The means to keep living forever in the flesh was right there in the garden. (Gen 3:22-24)

There would have been no need for Christ to come as a human, no need of a savior or a sacrifice, no need for a kingdom. Go back to Genesis and see. All of that was indicated only as a result of Adam's disobedience. (Rom 5:12)

Take your blinkers off. :)

Since Paul was referring to comparing spiritual things with spiritual and NOT earthly/literal/physical things with spiritual and we are on the topic of the creation, the tree of "KNOWLEDGE" of good and evil acquired by mankind, and where Adam KNEW his wife Eve, and conceived Cain, and where Cain got his wife, let's start with some scriptures.

Hosea4:6
My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children. (KNOWLEDGE)

Genesis5:1-2
In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;

2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created. (1 individual, mankind - created both male and female. The Lord God creating the soul/conscious and heart in one individual. Adam-soul/conscious, Eve-body/heart.)

Looking at Father and Mother now, Mankind created from the "dust of the EARTH."
Spiritually speaking, Earth as our bodies. Our physical aspect. Our mother.
-Heaven and Earth(Father and Mother)
(Spirit and body)

And the soul/conscious, and the heart all residing in the spirit and body.

-Spirit expressing itself in physical body. Spirit cannot manifest without a body and without the spirit the body is dead.

Adam living in perfect peace, bliss, state of heaven, oneness with God, residing in spirit(father) and body(mother) until he fell into a deep sleep and was given a heart and a mind, the capability of thinking/KNOWING, and feeling.

The mind and heart of Adam ran rampant with thoughts and desires. Knowledge, both of good and evil instead of just good(paradise).

The serpent, the wisest of God's creation- THE MIND, when carnally and earthly/worldly is enmity with God. (creates fear, doubt, ego, conceit, depression, stress, anger, etc.)
Romans8:7, Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Let's get back to KNOWLEDGE and the soul/conscious(Adam) knowing his heart(Eve) and creating children (seed) bearing fruit inside of the body, either good fruit or evil fruit. These children and seeds grow together internally. Children(seed) being thoughts, desires, emotions. One seed leads to the next, join with others and creates the network of our own empires, sin, kingdoms within. The evil seeds devour the good seeds inside of us.
Man was given dominion over these thoughts, desires, and emotions (free will) in Genesis1:26. Notice initially all the seeds planted in Earth (the body) where all "good" and of God's kind. Transmission of knowledge INSIDE of a human, whether of God(good) or bad(ourselves).

Marriage is divine and spiritual, in the Lord. Our carnal minds choose to view scriptures naturally, literally, and historically... Hence.... Thinking of earthly common marriage amongst male and female, as well as typical earthly children. As we grow older, our minds and bodies and our hearts are conditioned and controlled to believe and think and know physical and outward aspects, they are doctrined, traditioned, etc by ourselves, mankind, and everything that has happened in our lives. Religious agenda, which is blasphemous. We must not pertain scriptures this way. Scripture is written of the Spirit of God, and his thoughts are higher than our thoughts.

Spirituality is ALL WITHIN, INSIDE of us all, where any and all transformation takes place. God is concerned with the inner human, not the outer.

Jesus was tempted by the devil, his own MIND with the same thoughts, desires, emotions we feel YET he didn't cave to them, he didn't give in to the physical, literal, earthly, worldly aspect oh himself or things. He was led by the SPIRIT and not the MIND. He showed us a way out of this, how relying upon God and fasting(thinking only of God and eliminating all other thoughts) (meditation, being still and knowing and relying on God, sun and moon standing still, etc). He defeated the devil (MIND).... Where was Christ crucified... Golgatha... Interpreted: the place of the skull.... What's between the skull.... The mind.

So when you see God destroying and dashing evil children(seed) to pieces, that's God reigning in ones body conquering his enemies which are the network of sin(evil thoughts, desires, emotions) inside of an individual. Hence... The flood coming and destroying them all, washing, cleansing. Sodom, a kingdom of slavery to sexual immorality inside of an individual burned up by the Lord's coming and baptism of fire. Other evil countries and kingdoms created within our own minds and hearts.... Destroyed.


2 Corinthians 3:14-15,
14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
(Minds blinded and hearts veiled.... Those who still think literally and earthly and outwardly and vain interpretations of scripture.) When Jesus, Paul, and the apostles refer to the scriptures, they are referring to the Old Testament ONLY.) Christ and the entire New Testament can be found in the Old Testament, just different and older writers and words and slightly different metaphors.

Let's see what Godly knowledge is:
Isaiah11:2,
2 And the spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord.
(7 women taking hold of one man in Isaiah, no different then 7 churches in Revelation)

-Don't even get me started on the husband and wife, and the earthly and fleshly man thinking he has control and his wife should be in subjection to him, and the wearing of the covering. THE GREAT MYSTERY Paul speaks of concerning Christ and the church. Spirit and body, bridegroom and bride.

We all should be: Acts4:32,
And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.


The temple of the Lord is our bodies in which the Spirit dwells. The house of the Lord is in is, the tabernacle is in us, the kingdom is within us. All inside. Spiritual. This gives new light on scriptures of Jerusalem, Judah, Zion, Israel(body), etc. Metaphors. Searching the scriptures and having earthly knowledge of them only carry us a tiny way, seeking the Spirit within takes us all of the way, having eyes to see spiritually and ears to hear spiritually. All about the old man, old world, ourselves gone and new man created and molded.


This sums up the spiritual and inner human VERY well:

Colossians 2:6-23King James Version (KJV)
6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:
7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.
8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,
19 And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.
20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
22 Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men?
23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body: not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.


The Spirit of God wrote these scriptures. It is vain and a mistake to take them earthly, literal, or historical in any way.
The Spirit teaches things written of Spirit. I understand this may be difficult to grasp, our own knowledge and everything we think we know, our ego's and conditioned and trained minds.... They never want to let go and be humbled and be taught by the Spirit. I used to be the same way until the light struck and I listened. Yes it was painful losing all of my friends and relationships at church and everyone thinking I'm crazy, but he who seeks to save his own own life will lose it and he who loses his life will save it. It's very painful, but in the end... Freedom, truth, peace, love, and oneness with the Lord has prevailed and its worth the end of our worlds we create.
 

Unification

Well-Known Member
Before going to scripture, let's reason on why incest is medically unhealthy. The closer the relative, the more likely any resultant children will have birth defects. And yet, if we take the genealogy of mankind literal, there was a significant increase in the overall lifespan as we get closer to Adam, especially when we get past Noah. It seems as if Shem, Noah's second son, lived for 502 years after the Deluge. He died 13 years after Sarah did, and may have also been the one known as Melchizedek, though that is by no means certain. Abraham himself is recorded to have lived for 175 years, and his father Terah, of the 8th generation from Shem, lived 205 years. As you may be aware, Sarah was Abraham's half-sister as well as his wife, having the same father in common. (Ge 20:12) Incest became strictly forbidden at the institution of the Law Covenant. Why did God finally make this illegal? Likely because the genetics of mankind had finally broken down to the point where Moses, could pray.

The span of our life is 70 years,
Or 80 if one is especially strong. (or "because of special mightiness.")
But they are filled with trouble and sorrow;
They quickly pass by, and away we fly.
- Psalm 90:10

One could reason that at this point it became too dangerous for the offspring if this practice was to continue. The DNA of humans was becoming too greatly removed from perfection.

And yet we know marriage was sacred in God's eyes. Even before the Law Covenant, Joseph knew it was a sin against God if he was to sleep with his master's wife. And likely he knew that God nearly killed a couple kings because they were about to take Sarah as wife when they did not realize that she was already Abraham's. So it would be totally wrong to say Cain had relations with his own mother, Eve was not Cain's wife, but Adam's. So, where did Cain get his wife? (Ge 4:17)

"After this Adam named his wife Eve, (meaning, "LIving One.") because she was to become the mother of everyone living." - Gen 3:20

"Adam lived for 130 years and then became father to a son in his likeness, in his image, and he named him Seth. (Adam's 3rd son (Ge 4:25)) After becoming father to Seth, Adam lived for 800 years. And he became father to sons and daughters. So all the days of Adam's life amounted to 930 years, and then he died." - Ge 5:3-5

From these 2 scriptures we can understand that Cain's wife had to be a sister, or perhaps a niece.

Since Paul was referring to comparing spiritual things with spiritual and NOT earthly/literal/physical things with spiritual and we are on the topic of the creation, the tree of "KNOWLEDGE" of good and evil acquired by mankind, and where Adam KNEW his wife Eve, and conceived Cain, and where Cain got his wife, let's start with some scriptures.

Hosea4:6
My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children. (KNOWLEDGE)

Genesis5:1-2
In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;

2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created. (1 individual, mankind - created both male and female. The Lord God creating the soul/conscious and heart in one individual. Adam-soul/conscious, Eve-body/heart.)

Looking at Father and Mother now, Mankind created from the "dust of the EARTH."
Spiritually speaking, Earth as our bodies. Our physical aspect. Our mother.
-Heaven and Earth(Father and Mother)
(Spirit and body)

And the soul/conscious, and the heart all residing in the spirit and body.

-Spirit expressing itself in physical body. Spirit cannot manifest without a body and without the spirit the body is dead.

Adam living in perfect peace, bliss, state of heaven, oneness with God, residing in spirit(father) and body(mother) until he fell into a deep sleep and was given a heart and a mind, the capability of thinking/KNOWING, and feeling.

The mind and heart of Adam ran rampant with thoughts and desires. Knowledge, both of good and evil instead of just good(paradise).

The serpent, the wisest of God's creation- THE MIND, when carnally and earthly/worldly is enmity with God. (creates fear, doubt, ego, conceit, depression, stress, anger, etc.)
Romans8:7, Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Let's get back to KNOWLEDGE and the soul/conscious(Adam) knowing his heart(Eve) and creating children (seed) bearing fruit inside of the body, either good fruit or evil fruit. These children and seeds grow together internally. Children(seed) being thoughts, desires, emotions. One seed leads to the next, join with others and creates the network of our own empires, sin, kingdoms within. The evil seeds devour the good seeds inside of us.
Man was given dominion over these thoughts, desires, and emotions (free will) in Genesis1:26. Notice initially all the seeds planted in Earth (the body) where all "good" and of God's kind. Transmission of knowledge INSIDE of a human, whether of God(good) or bad(ourselves).

Marriage is divine and spiritual, in the Lord. Our carnal minds choose to view scriptures naturally, literally, and historically... Hence.... Thinking of earthly common marriage amongst male and female, as well as typical earthly children. As we grow older, our minds and bodies and our hearts are conditioned and controlled to believe and think and know physical and outward aspects, they are doctrined, traditioned, etc by ourselves, mankind, and everything that has happened in our lives. Religious agenda, which is blasphemous. We must not pertain scriptures this way. Scripture is written of the Spirit of God, and his thoughts are higher than our thoughts.

Spirituality is ALL WITHIN, INSIDE of us all, where any and all transformation takes place. God is concerned with the inner human, not the outer.

Jesus was tempted by the devil, his own MIND with the same thoughts, desires, emotions we feel YET he didn't cave to them, he didn't give in to the physical, literal, earthly, worldly aspect oh himself or things. He was led by the SPIRIT and not the MIND. He showed us a way out of this, how relying upon God and fasting(thinking only of God and eliminating all other thoughts) (meditation, being still and knowing and relying on God, sun and moon standing still, etc). He defeated the devil (MIND).... Where was Christ crucified... Golgatha... Interpreted: the place of the skull.... What's between the skull.... The mind.

So when you see God destroying and dashing evil children(seed) to pieces, that's God reigning in ones body conquering his enemies which are the network of sin(evil thoughts, desires, emotions) inside of an individual. Hence... The flood coming and destroying them all, washing, cleansing. Sodom, a kingdom of slavery to sexual immorality inside of an individual burned up by the Lord's coming and baptism of fire. Other evil countries and kingdoms created within our own minds and hearts.... Destroyed.


2 Corinthians 3:14-15,
14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
(Minds blinded and hearts veiled.... Those who still think literally and earthly and outwardly and vain interpretations of scripture.) When Jesus, Paul, and the apostles refer to the scriptures, they are referring to the Old Testament ONLY.) Christ and the entire New Testament can be found in the Old Testament, just different and older writers and words and slightly different metaphors.

Let's see what Godly knowledge is:
Isaiah11:2,
2 And the spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord.
(7 women taking hold of one man in Isaiah, no different then 7 churches in Revelation)

-Don't even get me started on the husband and wife, and the earthly and fleshly man thinking he has control and his wife should be in subjection to him, and the wearing of the covering. THE GREAT MYSTERY Paul speaks of concerning Christ and the church. Spirit and body, bridegroom and bride.

We all should be: Acts4:32,
And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.


The temple of the Lord is our bodies in which the Spirit dwells. The house of the Lord is in is, the tabernacle is in us, the kingdom is within us. All inside. Spiritual. This gives new light on scriptures of Jerusalem, Judah, Zion, Israel(body), etc. Metaphors. Searching the scriptures and having earthly knowledge of them only carry us a tiny way, seeking the Spirit within takes us all of the way, having eyes to see spiritually and ears to hear spiritually. All about the old man, old world, ourselves gone and new man created and molded.


This sums up the spiritual and inner human VERY well:

Colossians 2:6-23King James Version (KJV)
6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:
7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.
8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,
19 And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.
20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
22 Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men?
23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body: not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.


The Spirit of God wrote these scriptures. It is vain and a mistake to take them earthly, literal, or historical in any way.
The Spirit teaches things written of Spirit. I understand this may be difficult to grasp, our own knowledge and everything we think we know, our ego's and conditioned and trained minds.... They never want to let go and be humbled and be taught by the Spirit. I used to be the same way until the light struck and I listened. Yes it was painful losing all of my friends and relationships at church and everyone thinking I'm crazy, but he who seeks to save his own own life will lose it and he who loses his life will save it. It's very painful, but in the end... Freedom, truth, peace, love, and oneness with the Lord has prevailed and its worth the end of our worlds we create.
 

Unification

Well-Known Member
The Bible does not tell us where Cain's wife came from. We can speculate till the cows come home, but we are left with nothing but assumptions and opinions. My question to you would be what does it matter? Either we have faith in what God's word says or we don't. The choice is ours.

Since Paul was referring to comparing spiritual things with spiritual and NOT earthly/literal/physical things with spiritual and we are on the topic of the creation, the tree of "KNOWLEDGE" of good and evil acquired by mankind, and where Adam KNEW his wife Eve, and conceived Cain, and where Cain got his wife, let's start with some scriptures.

Hosea4:6
My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children. (KNOWLEDGE)

Genesis5:1-2
In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;

2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created. (1 individual, mankind - created both male and female. The Lord God creating the soul/conscious and heart in one individual. Adam-soul/conscious, Eve-body/heart.)

Looking at Father and Mother now, Mankind created from the "dust of the EARTH."
Spiritually speaking, Earth as our bodies. Our physical aspect. Our mother.
-Heaven and Earth(Father and Mother)
(Spirit and body)

And the soul/conscious, and the heart all residing in the spirit and body.

-Spirit expressing itself in physical body. Spirit cannot manifest without a body and without the spirit the body is dead.

Adam living in perfect peace, bliss, state of heaven, oneness with God, residing in spirit(father) and body(mother) until he fell into a deep sleep and was given a heart and a mind, the capability of thinking/KNOWING, and feeling.

The mind and heart of Adam ran rampant with thoughts and desires. Knowledge, both of good and evil instead of just good(paradise).

The serpent, the wisest of God's creation- THE MIND, when carnally and earthly/worldly is enmity with God. (creates fear, doubt, ego, conceit, depression, stress, anger, etc.)
Romans8:7, Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Let's get back to KNOWLEDGE and the soul/conscious(Adam) knowing his heart(Eve) and creating children (seed) bearing fruit inside of the body, either good fruit or evil fruit. These children and seeds grow together internally. Children(seed) being thoughts, desires, emotions. One seed leads to the next, join with others and creates the network of our own empires, sin, kingdoms within. The evil seeds devour the good seeds inside of us.
Man was given dominion over these thoughts, desires, and emotions (free will) in Genesis1:26. Notice initially all the seeds planted in Earth (the body) where all "good" and of God's kind. Transmission of knowledge INSIDE of a human, whether of God(good) or bad(ourselves).

Marriage is divine and spiritual, in the Lord. Our carnal minds choose to view scriptures naturally, literally, and historically... Hence.... Thinking of earthly common marriage amongst male and female, as well as typical earthly children. As we grow older, our minds and bodies and our hearts are conditioned and controlled to believe and think and know physical and outward aspects, they are doctrined, traditioned, etc by ourselves, mankind, and everything that has happened in our lives. Religious agenda, which is blasphemous. We must not pertain scriptures this way. Scripture is written of the Spirit of God, and his thoughts are higher than our thoughts.

Spirituality is ALL WITHIN, INSIDE of us all, where any and all transformation takes place. God is concerned with the inner human, not the outer.

Jesus was tempted by the devil, his own MIND with the same thoughts, desires, emotions we feel YET he didn't cave to them, he didn't give in to the physical, literal, earthly, worldly aspect oh himself or things. He was led by the SPIRIT and not the MIND. He showed us a way out of this, how relying upon God and fasting(thinking only of God and eliminating all other thoughts) (meditation, being still and knowing and relying on God, sun and moon standing still, etc). He defeated the devil (MIND).... Where was Christ crucified... Golgatha... Interpreted: the place of the skull.... What's between the skull.... The mind.

So when you see God destroying and dashing evil children(seed) to pieces, that's God reigning in ones body conquering his enemies which are the network of sin(evil thoughts, desires, emotions) inside of an individual. Hence... The flood coming and destroying them all, washing, cleansing. Sodom, a kingdom of slavery to sexual immorality inside of an individual burned up by the Lord's coming and baptism of fire. Other evil countries and kingdoms created within our own minds and hearts.... Destroyed.


2 Corinthians 3:14-15,
14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
(Minds blinded and hearts veiled.... Those who still think literally and earthly and outwardly and vain interpretations of scripture.) When Jesus, Paul, and the apostles refer to the scriptures, they are referring to the Old Testament ONLY.) Christ and the entire New Testament can be found in the Old Testament, just different and older writers and words and slightly different metaphors.

Let's see what Godly knowledge is:
Isaiah11:2,
2 And the spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord.
(7 women taking hold of one man in Isaiah, no different then 7 churches in Revelation)

-Don't even get me started on the husband and wife, and the earthly and fleshly man thinking he has control and his wife should be in subjection to him, and the wearing of the covering. THE GREAT MYSTERY Paul speaks of concerning Christ and the church. Spirit and body, bridegroom and bride.

We all should be: Acts4:32,
And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.


The temple of the Lord is our bodies in which the Spirit dwells. The house of the Lord is in is, the tabernacle is in us, the kingdom is within us. All inside. Spiritual. This gives new light on scriptures of Jerusalem, Judah, Zion, Israel(body), etc. Metaphors. Searching the scriptures and having earthly knowledge of them only carry us a tiny way, seeking the Spirit within takes us all of the way, having eyes to see spiritually and ears to hear spiritually. All about the old man, old world, ourselves gone and new man created and molded.


This sums up the spiritual and inner human VERY well:

Colossians 2:6-23King James Version (KJV)
6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:
7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.
8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,
19 And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.
20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
22 Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men?
23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body: not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.


The Spirit of God wrote these scriptures. It is vain and a mistake to take them earthly, literal, or historical in any way.
The Spirit teaches things written of Spirit. I understand this may be difficult to grasp, our own knowledge and everything we think we know, our ego's and conditioned and trained minds.... They never want to let go and be humbled and be taught by the Spirit. I used to be the same way until the light struck and I listened. Yes it was painful losing all of my friends and relationships at church and everyone thinking I'm crazy, but he who seeks to save his own own life will lose it and he who loses his life will save it. It's very painful, but in the end... Freedom, truth, peace, love, and oneness with the Lord has prevailed and its worth the end of our worlds we create.
 

Unification

Well-Known Member
Well, for someone who purports to have "inside" information, you certainly display a complete lack of Bible knowledge, except when something agrees with your own view.

What do you know about incest? What do you know about God's law concerning it? When was it given?

For some reason, people assume that Cain and Abel were the only humans descended from Adam until the birth of Seth. And that Cain couldn't have taken a wife after he was sentenced to banishment because no other humans existed. Human lifespan was extended in those days immediately after the fall. Closer to perfection, humans lived for hundreds of years, but it still only took 9 months to produce a child.

You will notice that in the scriptures, girls are often left unnamed and unmentioned in amongst their brothers. e.g. Noah had three sons, all were named, but his own wife and daughters-in-law were never named.
Women had a complimentary role in Bible times, they were not the heads of the household, but the support system, if you like.

Therefore there is nothing to suggest that daughters were not born to Adam and his wife though they were never spoken of until Adam's history was recounted. Adam was 130 when this 3rd "son" was born, but there is nothing to say that daughters did not come into the world in the meantime. Nor is there a timeframe for Cain's murder of his brother or his banishment. Assumptions can be made when there is no detail.

Gen 5:3-5..." Adam lived for 130 years and then became father to a son in his likeness, in his image, and he named him Seth. 4 After becoming father to Seth, Adam lived for 800 years. And he became father to sons and daughters."

It is likely therefore that Cain took either a sister or a niece as a wife.

There was no incest because such a thing did not exist in those days. If God started the human race off with just two individuals, then how do you suppose he was going to populate the earth? He told Adam and his wife to "be fruitful and become many and fill the earth".....were they going to do that all by themselves?

The reason why incest is forbidden in later generations, further away from perfection, is because of genetic abnormalities.
It was not uncommon for men to marry their half sisters in a family with many wives. Abraham was married to Sarah, who was his half sister.

Where no law exists, no law can be broken. Did not the spirit teach you this?

Ah, the scholar of earthly and wordly biblical wisdom. I'll take spiritual and I hope you learn to search within one day. You are trying to teach things written by the Spirit of God in physical and earthly ways, your serpent(mind) is very clever, I can only imagine how effective you'd truly be in the true kingdom, spiritually if God taught you properly and truth in spirit... You'd be a true Jehovah witness, and feel the greatest bliss.
 

Unification

Well-Known Member
The Bible does not tell us where Cain's wife came from. We can speculate till the cows come home, but we are left with nothing but assumptions and opinions. My question to you would be what does it matter? Either we have faith in what God's word says or we don't. The choice is ours.

The Spirit of God does not teach history lessons, nor earthly and wordly wisdom of the physical. It's for the spiritual. Maybe if all realized this, the world would be a better place and instead of a weapon of oppression of literalness and a history lesson... The true Word can be preached to everyone.
 
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