Can someone explain the Trinity please...

[JM2C]

Well, I hate to burst your bubble, but it has been brought to your attention many times that there is not one direct statement from either God or his Christ in scripture that makes the trinity either a Jewish or a Christian teaching. You will find trinities in pagan religion though.

Speaking of pagans. You interpretation/alteration of John 1:1 to “a god” from “God” means you actually acknowledging that there are more than one god before the beginning and if you preach the Jesus you know as an “a god” then you are literally preaching polytheism and that makes you a pagan.

 

[JM2C]

I have asked you for one verse categorically stating what you claim several times....none have been forthcoming.

Read post #542

Can someone explain the Trinity please... | Page 28 | ReligiousForums.com

 

[Nada]

Not yours. That didn't come until 1800 years later. Jehovah led the world into error for 1800 years until CT Russell came along.

I was asking a legitimate question and your response was not so nice.Cheer up.

 

[Kolibri]

Unfortunately for you, the truth does not change. It does not become refined into 'truthier.' Either you have it or you don't.

Your God lives in the Pleaides star system.

you remind me of my experience in elementary school. You know?- the belligerent bullies that wanted to see if they could make you squirm just so they could laugh and have an excuse to push you around.

Of course, you know we do not believe that. I already told you that is not part of our belief system. And if some early on had thought that at one time, that is no longer the case.

If you started to study a new subject from scratch, would you not have some wrong preconceptions to start out with? Oh no! Wharton's truth is what was always truth. Where is your humility? When have you demonstrated yourself as a "lesser one"? (Luke 9:48) If you have, why are you attacking a people that have also?

 

[JM2C]

If Jesus was a Jew and the Jews accepted no such idea from their scriptures...the very scriptures Jesus himself quoted, then why did this teaching only emerge and gain entry into church doctrine over 300 years after Jesus died? The very time when apostasy was foretold?

And what is the name of the prophet who foretold this apostasy? Oh, I know, your leaders/prophets told you that story without even telling you where they got it from.

Their church is the self-proclaimed prophet of God, The Watchtower, April 1,1972, p. 197.

Is this the same apostasy Paul was talking about in 2Th 2:3?

 

[JM2C]

Again...I ask you to provide a direct statement from the Bible and not some ambiguous verses where the trinity is injected by vague inference.

I think they got 100 verses in this link. What Does the Bible Say About Trinity?.

Where is your proof that the “144,000 from all the tribes of Israel” were actually parts of the member of you group/jw? So what’s going happen to the rest of your group? Have you ever thought of that?

Rev 7:4 Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel.

 

[Kolibri]

You know I was reading this chapter this morning. Paul was talking about equality in this chapter. How do we define the word “equality” in verse 14. Was Paul talking about the basic needs of the people or brothers in Jerusalem?

And then in verse 15

2Co 8:15 as it is written: “He who gathered much did not have too much, and he who gathered little did not have too little.”

Do we do this today? Do we gather as much as we can because we don’t know the meaning of enough? Why almost all churches today are gathering enormous wealth if “he who gathered little did not have too little”? Basic needs? Equality?

Blocking off this section, we could say 2 Cor 8:1-15 was all about a collection being taken for Judean Christians. Romans 15:25,26 mentions the same thing as "a contribution to the poor among the holy ones in Jerusalem."

Likely this was in response to a foretold famine that struck in about 46 C.E. (Act 11:28; 12:25) So this would be for basic needs as you suggest.

2 Corinthians 8:15 specifically is a reference to Ex 16:18 when the Israelites were still getting used to gathering just the right amount of manna for the day - a basic need.

"When they would measure it by the omer, the one who had gathered much had no surplus and the one who gathered little had no shortage. They each gathered it according to what they could eat." - Ex 16:18

 

[Wharton]

Of course, you know we do not believe that. I already told you that is not part of our belief system. And if some early on had thought that at one time, that is no longer the case.

And I told you that truth does not change. So is it the truth or were you told a lie about where God lives? If so, is the 'truth' you believe now subject to change? It's not about being a bully. It's about truth. Why does the spiritual food being fed to you by the GB/FDS go bad and change?

 

[Wharton]

I was asking a legitimate question and your response was not so nice.Cheer up.

You asked "what church?" My response was correct.

If it's your church, just show the continuance between the apostles and CT Russell. That shouldn't be hard for you to do. If you can't, then Jesus lied. His church did not exist for 1800 years.

 

[Kolibri]

Where there is no wood, the fire goes out,
And where there is no slanderer, quarreling ceases.
- Proverbs 26:20

It is time I add a second person to my ignore list, at least for a time.

 

[Wharton]

Where there is no wood, the fire goes out,
And where there is no slanderer, quarreling ceases.
- Proverbs 26:20

It is time I add a second person to my ignore list, at least for a time.

Cognative dissonance wins again?

 

[JayJayDee]

Cognative dissonance wins again?

No sport....it's called knowing when to walk away and give something up as a lost cause. Your distaste for JW's and your selective ignorance is a shield to you, so you never listen to a word that's said to you. We are tired of the same regurgitated arguments.

I'm done with you too.

The truth will jump up and bite all of us one day. Only some of us will keep standing. Jehovah knows those who belong to him.

 

[Unification]

I think they got 100 verses in this link. What Does the Bible Say About Trinity?.

Where is your proof that the “144,000 from all the tribes of Israel” were actually parts of the member of you group/jw? So what’s going happen to the rest of your group? Have you ever thought of that?

Rev 7:4 Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel.

If Israel doesn't have an alternative meaning, one can throw the entire Hebrew Scriptures away, since that's the God of Israel, along with many from the Greek scriptures. Apparently, the word "Christian" is never mentioned in the book of Revelation either, so it seems only the Jews get to reign, and no one else.
Apparently, according to JW's Most are going to receive the outer court just outside the New Jerusalem since land is holy and not people, except the ones that go to the most doors...and are the most holier than thou of righteousness. They are part of the remaining 10 individuals left to fulfill the 144,000. . Eliminating maybe 100 spots from Old time saints of the bible, and 143,890 of JW members whom have already perished, that leaves the 10 remaining, before their loving God comes to murder and destroy people, and hand the entire planet Earth over to them.

 

[cataway]

10 remaining

really how do you have that number

 

[Unification]

really how do you have that number

Armageddon has been preached with fear, so it must be super close, the return heh? Logical guesstimate.

 

[JayJayDee]

I think they got 100 verses in this link. What Does the Bible Say About Trinity?.

And still not one of them is a categorical statement that Jesus and his Father are one and the same God or who all belong in a godhead.
Most statement linking Jesus with his Father leave the holy spirit out altogether.

Was there one single verse that said "God the Son" or "God the Holy Spirit"?....even one?

Where is your proof that the “144,000 from all the tribes of Israel” were actually parts of the member of you group/jw? So what’s going happen to the rest of your group? Have you ever thought of that?

This just proves that you have not listened to a word we have said.

The 144,000 began to be gathered when Jesus chose the twelve. Fleshly Israel could have filled the full number of those with "the heavenly calling" (Heb 3:1) but they rejected their Messiah. After Jesus' death, the apostle Peter was guided to Cornelius, the first gentile convert to Christianity. Jesus had already stated that the kingdom would be taken away from literal Israel and given to a "nation producing its fruits". (Matt 21:42, 43) That new nation, were the disciples of Jesus Christ, made up of both fleshly Jews and Gentiles who accepted him as their savior.

The foretold apostasy (the weeds of Jesus' parable) put the brakes on the selection of the anointed as Christendom and her disgusting corruption of Christ's teachings took over the religious environment throughout Europe from the 4th century onward. It held a reign of tyranny for 15 centuries, until the Reformation when her power was finally broken. God's word came back into the hands of the common man, but men did what men do best....they broke away and took followers with them. Rather than uniting Christianity, it further fragmented it into thousands of sects all claiming to be the real deal. What do you see today? One united Christianity? Seriously? If Christ returned tomorrow, who would he recognise as his own? (Matt 7:21-23)

A foretold cleansing was to take place "in the time of the end". (Dan 12:4, 9, 10) This is when Christendom was exposed as religious hypocrites in the same way as Jesus exposed the Pharisees in Judaism.
Jehovah's "people" were told to "get out of Babylon the great" and that is exactly what they did. (Rev 18:4, 5)
The full number of Christ's anointed were then gathered and the "other sheep" (John 10:16) were identified as the earthly subjects of the heavenly kingdom. (Rev 21:1-5) These were "one flock with one shepherd"....but they had two different destinies. Since God is the one who chooses the anointed, who can envy them their role? We are happy to be blessed with these ones as our rulers.

Rev 7:4 Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel.

There is more than one "Israel". God chose a new nation to be his worshippers. The apostle Paul called them "the Israel of God" (Gal 6:16) who are made up of both Jewish and gentile Christians. Literal Israel broke her covenant with God so he "abandoned" them as his people (Matt 23:37-39) and chose a new spiritual nation whom he counted as the spiritual "seed of Abraham" thus keeping his everlasting covenant in force.

Romans 9:6-8..."But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but “Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.” This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring." (ESV)

If you will just open your eyes and your ears, you will see what the scriptures are trying to teach you.

 

[cataway]

Logical guesstimate

if you say so

 

[JayJayDee]

Armageddon has been preached with fear, so it must be super close, the return heh? Logical guesstimate.

On the contrary...Armageddon has been preached with hope!

It is not a war of man against man...we have had a gut full of those! This is the final war on earth with wicked men backed by God's adversary against God himself which will be fought by Jesus and his angels. (2 Thess 1:6-9) It will cleanse the earth of all who rob it of peace and replace its rulership with the kingdom that Jesus taught us to pray for. (Dan 2:44)

The "good news of the kingdom" was to be preached " in all the inhabited earth" before the foretold "end" would come. This has now been accomplished.

Is it close? You betcha. Closer than it was yesterday.

Bring it on.

 

[Unification]

On the contrary...Armageddon has been preached with hope!

It is not a war of man against man...we have had a gut full of those! This is the final war on earth with wicked men backed by God's adversary against God himself which will be fought by Jesus and his angels. (2 Thess 1:6-9) It will cleanse the earth of all who rob it of peace and replace its rulership with the kingdom that Jesus taught us to pray for. (Dan 2:44)

The "good news of the kingdom" was to be preached " in all the inhabited earth" before the foretold "end" would come. This has now been accomplished.

Is it close? You betcha. Closer than it was yesterday.

Bring it on.

Doesn't that sound like an internal spiritual battle one faces in the flesh, and the Lord coming to cleanse and destroy sin in the body of a man/woman? Messengers of light(good knowledge /will of God) vs. messengers of darkness(evil knowledge we create within our hearts and minds and own will.) The flood, washing, and pouring out of Spirit? The gospel of repentance and God saving a human?

Agreed that much blood has been shed between mankind, this has actually been one of the more peaceable times in history, when it comes to war. As for sin, disobedience, immorality of most... It has soared.

 

[Wharton]

No sport....it's called knowing when to walk away and give something up as a lost cause. Your distaste for JW's and your selective ignorance is a shield to you, so you never listen to a word that's said to you. We are tired of the same regurgitated arguments.

I'm done with you too.

The truth will jump up and bite all of us one day. Only some of us will keep standing. Jehovah knows those who belong to him.

I don't have a distaste for JW's, just your inconsistency in doctrine. If you expound something as truth, it can not change. The "light shining brighter" is a man-made excuse/tradition for correcting error. If you can't see that, it's not my problem. Feel free to be led by inconsistency. It may, as you say, jump up and bite you.