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Can the Quran only be understood one way.

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
Is it possible to say that the quran can only be understood one way (literarly) or is it due to how a person practice what is written?

When Muhammad was teaching Islam(Quran) he asked his followers to go out to speak the truth and teach others about Islam. And when he died Some was Chosen by Muhammad to keep deliviering the message as Muhammad had done.

So is Islam the Quran, or is Islam the actual message that was given to Muhammad, and was give to others by the people who truly understood the meaning of the teaching also after Muhammad had passed away?
 

darkskies

Active Member
Interesting question.
As a work of literature, multiple interpretations are encouraged. But as a holy book, it must have one single interpretation. :confused:
 

Shakeel

Well-Known Member
And when he died Some was Chosen by Muhammad to keep deliviering the message as Muhammad had done.
What does that mean, who were they and Where's the proof?

I think what you mean, as has become apparent in other discussions, is that if the Qur'an says one thing, can we not say it means something other than what it says? The answer is, no. Obviously.
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
What does that mean, who were they and Where's the proof?

I think what you mean, as has become apparent in other discussions, is that if the Qur'an says one thing, can we not say it means something other than what it says? The answer is, no. Obviously.
It means those who was chosen to continue teaching exactly the way Muhammad did, so the teaching would continue correctly.

But when Muhammad was gone they hold no konger gi to the source they rely on the teaching through imams and shaykhs
 

Shakeel

Well-Known Member
It means those who was chosen to continue teaching exactly the way Muhammad did, so the teaching would continue correctly.

But when Muhammad was gone they hold no konger gi to the source they rely on the teaching through imams and shaykhs
Who were chosen?
 

danieldemol

Veteran Member
Premium Member
So is Islam the Quran, or is Islam the actual message that was given to Muhammad, and was give to others by the people who truly understood the meaning of the teaching also after Muhammad had passed away?
It is a fascinating question, my opinion is that Islam was the message of Muhammad, the problem is, how do we know which people truly understood the message of Muhammad without having a reliable set of the teachings and actions of Muhammad to compare the teachings and actions of those people to?

It seems to me as though western academics are of the peer reviewed opinion that we cannot know much of the historical Muhammad, thus we have nothing reliable to compare the teachings of these secret teachers you refer to in order to determine who the teachers closest to Muhammad are.

In other words which teacher you follow seems to come down to how you interpret the teaching, as such it appears up to your whim which teacher you follow and regard as closest to the historical Muhammad.
 

Shakeel

Well-Known Member
e they hold no konger gi to the source they rely on the teaching through imams and shaykhs
1)what is the source? (one might think it was your shaikh, but since you've never urged anyone to follow them, I guess you don't think so)
2)They rely on the Qur'an and the Sunnah. The shaikhs and the imams also rely on the Qur'an and the Sunnah. It is you who relies on something else; namely, your shaikhs. A weird accusation from you then, isn't it?
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
1)what is the source? (one might think it was your shaikh, but since you've never urged anyone to follow them, I guess you don't think so)
2)They rely on the Qur'an and the Sunnah. The shaikhs and the imams also rely on the Qur'an and the Sunnah. It is you who relies on something else; namely, your shaikhs. A weird accusation from you then, isn't it?
The true quran was Muhammad him self, the written version come later ( the look er call quran today)

Sufi teaching is my source, and not all is written down.
 

stvdv

Veteran Member

Hermit Philosopher

Selflessly here for you
Is it possible to say that the quran can only be understood one way (literarly) or is it due to how a person practice what is written?

When Muhammad was teaching Islam(Quran) he asked his followers to go out to speak the truth and teach others about Islam. And when he died Some was Chosen by Muhammad to keep deliviering the message as Muhammad had done.

So is Islam the Quran, or is Islam the actual message that was given to Muhammad, and was give to others by the people who truly understood the meaning of the teaching also after Muhammad had passed away?


Scripture deals with the spiritual and always speaks in metaphor, because Man has no words, except for things in worldliness.

Good scripture speaks to all, precisely because it speaks in metaphors that offer many “roads” to the same [one] spiritual conclusion.

The “road” that speaks to you personally (your interpretation), is the one that best leads you to Gods spiritual message.

Through scripture, God “speaks” to you in the way that you, based on what you personally have encountered in life, best will understand His message.


Humbly
Hermit
 

Niblo

Active Member
Premium Member
The true quran was Muhammad him self, the written version come later ( the look er call quran today)

As-Salāmu ‘alaykum, brother

The IDP Research Division reminds us that: ‘There is no doubt that the Qur'an was not only transmitted orally by many Muslims who had learned parts or the whole of it, but that it was also written down during the lifetime of the Prophet. The well-known report about 'Umar's conversion shows that large passages of the revelation had already been written down even at a very early time, in Makka, long before the hijra, when the Prophet was still in the house of Arqam.’ (‘Understanding the Qur'an – Its History and Compilation’).

There is an expression: ‘jam' al-qur'an’. It’s general meaning is to 'bring together the Qur'an'.

Even though the Qur’an was written down – in its entirety – during the life of the Prophet (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam), it had not been brought together in a single book. Abū Bakr (the first Caliph) assigned this task to Zaid bin Thabit; a young man in his early twenties, one of the Prophet’s most notable scribes. Zaid was a ḥāfiẓ (a ‘guardian’ or ‘memorizer’ of the Qur’an; someone who knew the Qur’an by heart).

M.M. Al-Azami informs us that: ‘Zaid would accept only those materials which, according to the sworn testimony of two others, had been written in the Prophet's very presence. Ibn Hajar's statement affirms this view, that "Zaid was unwilling to accept any written material for consideration unless two Companions bore witness that the man received his dictation from the Prophet himself.” His contribution, we can summarise, was to collect all first-hand Qur'anic fragments, then scattered about Madinah, and arrange for their transcription into a master volume.’

‘In serving the Qur'an Abū Bakr acquitted himself most admirably, heeding its mandate of two witnesses for establishing authenticity, and applying this rule to the Qur’an’s own compilation. The result, though written on rudimentary parchments of varying size, constituted as sincere an effort as possible to preserve the Words of Allāh.’ (‘The History of the Qur’anic Text).

Once complete, the compiled Qur'an was placed under the custodianship of Abū Bakr.
 

Niblo

Active Member
Premium Member
In fairness, nothing in the Qur'an says to stone blasphemers as far as I recall.

Agreed.

The Qur’an lists a number of capital crimes; crimes that undermine the moral fabric of the Islamic community as a whole. Such crimes are known collectively as ḥirābah.

In Islamic law, ḥirābah form a category comprising armed robbery with violence; murder; rape; and terrorism.

The essential hallmark of ḥirābah is that they are intended to instil fear into the general community; to ‘corrupt the earth’ – the ‘act of undoing and breaking down the ties and relationships that God has established through creation by disrupting the process of human intercourse and by destroying the very possibility of human beings coming “to know one another” through interactive social dynamics.’ (Professor Khaled Abou El Fadl: ‘The Great Theft – Wrestling Islam From the Extremists’).

Insulting the Prophet (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) may well instil revulsion – even anger – in the listener; but not fear…not terror. It is not of the ḥirābah, and carries no death penalty in the Qur’an; indeed, no earthly penalty at all.

In sūrah ‘Al-Ma’ida’ we read: ‘if anyone kills a person – unless in retribution for murder or spreading corruption in the land – it is as if he kills all mankind, while if any saves a life it is as if he saves the lives of all mankind.’ (Verse 32).

These are the words of Allāh (subḥānahu ūta'āla) – speaking to the heart of every Muslim today, just as they did to the Prophet of Islam (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam). Where in this verse do we find the words ‘unless in retribution for insulting Mohammed’?

Those who claim to love the Prophet – and who seek to defend his honour – would do well to follow his example. During his lifetime he was ridiculed and insulted many times; and several attempts were made on his life. We have to ask ourselves: If the Prophet wished to execute – or to have others execute – those who insulted him, why is there no Qur’anic authority for this to be done?

In sūrah ‘Fussilat’ the Prophet is commanded to ‘repel evil with that which is better’ (Verse 34); and this he did, many times. Islamic scholars consider his behaviour to be the exemplar of appropriate action in the face of personal insult or assault.

The French orientalist Louis-Pierre-Eugène Amélie Sédillot writes:

‘It is such a distortion of historical facts when some writers accuse Prophet Muhammad of cruelty…They forget that he spared no effort in eliminating the inherited desire for revenge between Arabs; despite the fact that revenge was highly esteemed in Arabia, like fencing was in Europe. They do not read the Quranic verse by which the Prophet broke the horrible habit of burying new-born girls alive. They never think of the pardon he granted to his worst enemies after the Conquest of Mecca.’ (‘Brief History of the Arabs’; my emphasis).

‘Repel evil with that which is better.’

Folk must ask themselves, in what way can the murder of an individual for some (perceived) insult to the Prophet be better than simple forgiveness?
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
As-Salāmu ‘alaykum, brother

The IDP Research Division reminds us that: ‘There is no doubt that the Qur'an was not only transmitted orally by many Muslims who had learned parts or the whole of it, but that it was also written down during the lifetime of the Prophet. The well-known report about 'Umar's conversion shows that large passages of the revelation had already been written down even at a very early time, in Makka, long before the hijra, when the Prophet was still in the house of Arqam.’ (‘Understanding the Qur'an – Its History and Compilation’).

There is an expression: ‘jam' al-qur'an’. It’s general meaning is to 'bring together the Qur'an'.

Even though the Qur’an was written down – in its entirety – during the life of the Prophet (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam), it had not been brought together in a single book. Abū Bakr (the first Caliph) assigned this task to Zaid bin Thabit; a young man in his early twenties, one of the Prophet’s most notable scribes. Zaid was a ḥāfiẓ (a ‘guardian’ or ‘memorizer’ of the Qur’an; someone who knew the Qur’an by heart).

M.M. Al-Azami informs us that: ‘Zaid would accept only those materials which, according to the sworn testimony of two others, had been written in the Prophet's very presence. Ibn Hajar's statement affirms this view, that "Zaid was unwilling to accept any written material for consideration unless two Companions bore witness that the man received his dictation from the Prophet himself.” His contribution, we can summarise, was to collect all first-hand Qur'anic fragments, then scattered about Madinah, and arrange for their transcription into a master volume.’

‘In serving the Qur'an Abū Bakr acquitted himself most admirably, heeding its mandate of two witnesses for establishing authenticity, and applying this rule to the Qur’an’s own compilation. The result, though written on rudimentary parchments of varying size, constituted as sincere an effort as possible to preserve the Words of Allāh.’ (‘The History of the Qur’anic Text).

Once complete, the compiled Qur'an was placed under the custodianship of Abū Bakr.
The scripture might have been down at that time, i meant to say the complete look quran as one finished look.

Thank you for your correction
 
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