And where did G-d come from? What created the creator? Why assume that a deity exists to cause the universe when we know the universe exists?
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Can the universe create itself when it does‘t exist?
- Thread starter paarsurrey
- Start date
And where did G-d come from? What created the creator? Why assume that a deity exists to cause the universe when we know the universe exists?
QuestioningMind
Well-Known Member
If you mean can a compact singularity begin to expand into the universe we know today on its own via a natural process, there's absolutely no evidence to suggest that that it could not.
Because God made no claim.
Lots of people about making claims for God but no God. Just others like you and me. Failable and prone to mistakes.
Some person decided to create a story about creation to tell for entertainment late at night around the campfire. Someone else decided the story should be included in the Torah. Where is God in all of this? Did God take pen in hand to make this claim?
You choose to believe the story of some unknown human author is true. There is nothing other than your belief to support this truth.
You are asking questions that the world's top physicists and cosmologists and astrophysicists having been studying for years!
The short answer is "we don't know".
What's important for this thread is to notice how scientists are comfortable saying "we don't know", and how often religious people feel the need to pretend they know the answers to questions they don't really know.
Did God take pen in hand to write the Quran?
Does God have hands like a man?
The Quran was written by some man Right?
So what difference is there between this story written by another man and the story I typed on my computer other than your belief?
Searching4God
Big Trev
.. nothing never existed all at once. Thinking things exist within how we understand physics and godlessness could have resulted in this? Thinking the Big Bang mass that atheists rationalize as truth has better odds than a designer pushing the beginning is absurd.
Searching4God
Big Trev
This is what I can’t grasp with these nothingness theory fanatics. How do you get existence according to a science fetish.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
"If I claim to care about God but don't care about people"
I understand from my truthful religion that we have two types of teachings, the first type of teachings gives my duties towards G-d and the second type of duties towards the people/humanity. If I don't care for the people I don't get to G-d. So, I care about both. Right,please?
Regards
Searching4God
Big Trev
I’m sorry to mods if I’m posting too many posts. I don’t know how to quote within one post on iPad. Anyways.. claiming the Big Bang one in 1.5 trillion chance dwarfs God is insanity. First try, presto. How does the Big Bang work according to atheism. Once nothing existed within absolute nothingness, time was or wasn’t eternal, then an energy formed within the inside nothing, morphed into the potential for space, then we don’t know if it went Bang in a bit, in a while, or a long time, but one in 1.5 trillion odds came true. It’s insanity.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
"For this reason I do not believe that it is authentic religious knowledge."
I understand, that here one is wrong. Truthful religious knowledge is as or even more or even the most accurate if correctly understood as is knowledge of science- that has yet not completed its homework and does not claim to be perfect and would never claim to be perfect. Right, please?
Regards
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
One means theoretical possibility and even that the remote one, that is practically impossible and will be practically possible when it happens and comes to exist. Right, please?
Regards
ManSinha
Well-Known Member
I believe that the Bible and Qu'ran are inaccurate on this
No one knows - to assert anything else is just that - an assertion - does not make it "true" - and let us not get started on "This is God's word" I can rubbish that argument in one post
The RigVeda - complied around 3500 years ago - holds the view that is still prevalent today - among scientific authorities - "we do not know" (may be yet)
ko addhā veda ka iha pra vocat kuta ājātā kuta iyaṃvisṛṣṭiḥ |
arvāgh devā asya visarjanenāthā ko veda yataābabhūva ||
iyaṃ visṛṣṭiryata ābabhūva yadi vā dadhe yadi vā na |
yo asyādhyakṣaḥ parame vyoman so aṅgha veda yadi vā naveda ||
6. Who verily knows and who can here declare it, whence it was born and whence comes this creation?
The Gods are later than this world's production. Who knows then whence it first came into being?
7. He, the first origin of this creation, whether he formed it all or did not form it,
Whose eye controls this world in highest heaven, he verily knows it, or perhaps he knows not.
No one knows - to assert anything else is just that - an assertion - does not make it "true" - and let us not get started on "This is God's word" I can rubbish that argument in one post
The RigVeda - complied around 3500 years ago - holds the view that is still prevalent today - among scientific authorities - "we do not know" (may be yet)
ko addhā veda ka iha pra vocat kuta ājātā kuta iyaṃvisṛṣṭiḥ |
arvāgh devā asya visarjanenāthā ko veda yataābabhūva ||
iyaṃ visṛṣṭiryata ābabhūva yadi vā dadhe yadi vā na |
yo asyādhyakṣaḥ parame vyoman so aṅgha veda yadi vā naveda ||
6. Who verily knows and who can here declare it, whence it was born and whence comes this creation?
The Gods are later than this world's production. Who knows then whence it first came into being?
7. He, the first origin of this creation, whether he formed it all or did not form it,
Whose eye controls this world in highest heaven, he verily knows it, or perhaps he knows not.
Last edited:
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
I understand that "nothingness" and "something-ness" both are creation of G-d. Right, please?
Regards
Personally, I don't assume nothingness.
The "big bang" is really where they start defining what is/was as the universe. Doesn't really claim there was nothing before it or that the universe came from nothing. I think I read somewhere they can sequence back to some fraction of a second after the "big bang" the initial expansion of the universe. What existed or didn't exist prior to that they can't say.
What Existed Before the Big Bang?
I don't know where you get those odds. Certainly nowhere from science.
In Big Bang cosmology, the universe throughout space *and throughout time* is taken as a whole. Time is merely one parameter *inside* of the universe. All causality happens *inside* of the universe.
In the standard model of the Big Bang, there *was* no 'before the Big Bang'. Time simply does not exist outside of the universe. In fact, there *is* no 'outside of the universe'.
So, no, the idea is NOT that 'nothing existed within absolute nothingness'. In fact, the idea is that 'nothingness' simply doesn't exist at all. Any time there was anything, the universe existed.
Also, nothing 'went Bang' in the Big Bang. That was a terminology used by a critic that stuck. But, in fact, it is sort of like saying that latitude lines 'expand' out of the south pole. They don't. And neither does the universe 'expand' out of s singularity. The universe, consisting of ALL space and time, simply exists.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
I understand that truthful Quran was authored by G-d, as claimed by Him in so many a verse and Muhammad never claimed it even once. Right, please?
Please don't be angry. Right, please?
Regards
Koldo
Outstanding Member
How is this not magic?
And god done exactly the same thing with magic is possible in your book. Right, please?
Well I can't speak for other atheists but I for one assume the universe has always existed in one form or another.
That's really no crazier than assuming God has always existed is it?
We are here, we exist right?
What is crazier is assuming there was a time when nothing existed. I mean how can something come from nothing?
If you stop assuming there was a time when nothing existed then you don't have to worry about something coming from nothing.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
"The short answer is "we don't know"."You are asking questions that the world's top physicists and cosmologists and astrophysicists having been studying for years!
The short answer is "we don't know".
What's important for this thread is to notice how scientists are comfortable saying "we don't know", and how often religious people feel the need to pretend they know the answers to questions they don't really know.
That is the reason why the clue to it is being debated/discussed in this thread from the truthful religious knowledge which is as or more or the most accurate as is knowledge of science-that has not yet completed its homework and does not claim it even. Right, please?
So,no harm if one gets to know it, please. Right,please?
Regards