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Can we have sympathy both ways

S

SinSaber

Member
To LGBT people, can you stop calling all us christians on the right, and even some on the left, as bigots.

Yeah you're excited for marriage equality, but we just want to be protected just a little bit so we can live within our religious beliefs. It's a deep and spiritual thing for us and telling us that doesn't matter is wrong.

The vast majority of us aren't like those fundamentalist jerks. We DONT believe you should be discriminated in HOUSING EMPLOYMENT OR EVERYDAY SERVICES. When it comes to events we just want to talk it out.

Yes it hurts when your told something is a sin when you truly don't believe it is. But it also hurts to be called a bigot when there is truly no hate in your heart.

Can we just have some peace, sit down, and talk. Cause if I have to go another day with all this I might just give up everything.
 
S

SinSaber

Member
Mister Silver said:
How are you not protected?
Click to expand...

Well, for instance, anyone who has verbally expressed, without denying services, has been removed from certain positions and forced to take a sensitivity class. That's the same as the government saying your wrong and you'll be forced to listen why you're wrong even though the First Amendment grants you this belief
 
Mister Silver

Mister Silver

Faith's Nightmare
SinSaber said:
Well, for instance, anyone who has verbally expressed, without denying services, has been removed from certain positions and forced to take a sensitivity class. That's the same as the government saying your wrong and you'll be forced to listen why you're wrong even though the First Amendment grants you this belief
Click to expand...

From my own work experience, a verbal denial despite providing services is seen as a slight against authority in the work place. I see nothing wrong with employees being reprimanded for that. It is not the same as the government taking away your first amendment rights.
 
McBell

McBell

Unbound
SinSaber said:
Well, for instance, anyone who has verbally expressed, without denying services, has been removed from certain positions and forced to take a sensitivity class. That's the same as the government saying your wrong and you'll be forced to listen why you're wrong even though the First Amendment grants you this belief
Click to expand...
Please provide sources and examples.
 
sayak83

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
SinSaber said:
Well, for instance, anyone who has verbally expressed, without denying services, has been removed from certain positions and forced to take a sensitivity class. That's the same as the government saying your wrong and you'll be forced to listen why you're wrong even though the First Amendment grants you this belief
Click to expand...
Here is the thing. Suppose a woman is a sex worker. Say, she goes to a government service for child care or health service, and the Christian govrrnment representative goes into a long harangue about how prostitution is sin. This is sufficient cause for suspension or sensitivity training. When one is representing the government, one cannot when acting in that capacity, express personal views regarding other aspects of the person's life while providing the service. Similarly when one is acting as representative of a corporation whose staff one is.

Of course if a person feels that the the cause for disciplinary action is unjust, she can move against her employer in courts for redress.
 
Jeremiahcp

Jeremiahcp

Well-Known Jerk
I was just talking to another guy, who is gay and wants to connect, but he is terrified of being viewed in public with me, even though I am what is known as "straight acting" and it would be impossible for anyone to know why we are hanging out. It made me reflect on how many gay and bisexual males I know that never really connect to human love because of the oppressive environment we live in, and it made reflect once more on how this is not equal footing. Heterosexual males are not ashamed of who they are, they are not scared of expressing themselves, in fact they beat their chest and proudly proclaim themselves as straight. There is no justification for this continued prejudice, religious or otherwise. People should not be so scared to express love that they never find it.
 
idav

idav

Being
Premium Member
SinSaber said:
To LGBT people, can you stop calling all us christians on the right, and even some on the left, as bigots.

Yeah you're excited for marriage equality, but we just want to be protected just a little bit so we can live within our religious beliefs. It's a deep and spiritual thing for us and telling us that doesn't matter is wrong.

The vast majority of us aren't like those fundamentalist jerks. We DONT believe you should be discriminated in HOUSING EMPLOYMENT OR EVERYDAY SERVICES. When it comes to events we just want to talk it out.

Yes it hurts when your told something is a sin when you truly don't believe it is. But it also hurts to be called a bigot when there is truly no hate in your heart.

Can we just have some peace, sit down, and talk. Cause if I have to go another day with all this I might just give up everything.
Click to expand...
I see where your coming from and your right. If your engaging openly there is not reason for the term bigot. Unfortunately there is an intolerance out there that is a lot louder than your practical conservatives. The only real hypocrisy would be in ignoring the words of Jesus in that the law is summed up in love. I've talked to many conservative fundamentalists in real life and they say this is often a problem within their own flocks.

As far as the workplace is concerned, there is no room for any signs of hate including but not limited to religious preference. When going to work people have to keep any hint of racism, misogyny or bigotry at home. There are so many diverse beliefs out there, anyone who brings up their version of the truth in the workplace is just asking for trouble, even without getting into the hot topics.
 
Mister Silver

Mister Silver

Faith's Nightmare
McBell

McBell

Unbound
SinSaber said:
This is my evidence

Student senator faces impeachment for conservative beliefs

But, what's the point of diversity if everyone is forced to lockstep?
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ROTFLMAO

He was "fired" for several violations, and it was NOT the government behind it, it was the school, which does not receive government funding.


So your above example, when researched beyond your martyr agenda source, does not support your claims.

Care to try again?
 
LuisDantas

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Jeremiahcp said:
I was just talking to another guy, who is gay and wants to connect, but he is terrified of being viewed in public with me, even though I am what is known as "straight acting" and it would be impossible for anyone to know why we are hanging out. It made me reflect on how many gay and bisexual males I know that never really connect to human love because of the oppressive environment we live in, and it made reflect once more on how this is not equal footing. Heterosexual males are not ashamed of who they are, they are not scared of expressing themselves, in fact they beat their chest and proudly proclaim themselves as straight. There is no justification for this continued prejudice, religious or otherwise. People should not be so scared to express love that they never find it.
Click to expand...
Amen to that, brother.
 
Quintessence

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
SinSaber said:
Yes it hurts when your told something is a sin when you truly don't believe it is. But it also hurts to be called a bigot when there is truly no hate in your heart.
Click to expand...

I wanted to highlight this piece because I think the central message that comes across to me from your post is a very important one. Human relationships are complicated, but in other respects certain elements are remarkably simple. Passing judgement on others - whether it is alleging that non-hetero sexualities are sinful or that those who believe that is the case are bigots - can be hurtful. Opening up a dialogue requires us to move past the hurtful judgements, leave our egos at the door, and listen for a moment.

As simple as that is, it is far easier said than done. We have this asinine saying in our culture that goes "sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me." The truth is words leave cumulative scars that never go away in ways that often far exceed what any sticks and stones could do to you. People become bitter and resentful, making that suspension of judgement and putting the ego at the door very difficult. Breaking down that barrier requires learning to respect someone in spite of disagreements. That is best done, perhaps, when that best friend you knew for a long time turns out to be something you didn't expect... and the continuing to love them anyway.

Maybe ask ourselves a question: are you capable of maintaining a positive relationship with someone you regard as a bigot? With someone you regard as a sinner? Learning how to do that is a good starting point, I think.
 
Spiderman

Spiderman

Veteran Member
Jeremiahcp said:
I was just talking to another guy, who is gay and wants to connect, but he is terrified of being viewed in public with me, even though I am what is known as "straight acting" and it would be impossible for anyone to know why we are hanging out. It made me reflect on how many gay and bisexual males I know that never really connect to human love because of the oppressive environment we live in, and it made reflect once more on how this is not equal footing. Heterosexual males are not ashamed of who they are, they are not scared of expressing themselves, in fact they beat their chest and proudly proclaim themselves as straight. There is no justification for this continued prejudice, religious or otherwise. People should not be so scared to express love that they never find it.
Click to expand...
Very good points! Thank you! It is good to be reminded of the suffering that is forced upon people for a sexuality they never chose and can't change.
 
LuisDantas

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
SinSaber said:
Yeah you're excited for marriage equality, but we just want to be protected just a little bit so we can live within our religious beliefs. It's a deep and spiritual thing for us and telling us that doesn't matter is wrong.
Click to expand...

I am so sorry, but I don't see how you can have it both ways. Either you accept that LGBT lives deserve full respect and dignity, or you do not. You should not expect anyone to feel the duty to protect you from the consequences of your own religious beliefs, nor of the need to challenge those beliefs when they happen to encourage disrespect, bigotry and inhuman behavior.
 
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