Do Warren Buffett and Bill Gates give the lie to the notion that you cannot be good without god? Why or why not?
Does god keep you from being as good as you might be? Why or why not?
H/T Astasia
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Can You Be Good Without God?
- Thread starter Sunstone
- Start date
Do Warren Buffett and Bill Gates give the lie to the notion that you cannot be good without god? Why or why not?
Does god keep you from being as good as you might be? Why or why not?
H/T Astasia
I was thinking about that this afternoon. Specifically, I was wondering two things -- Would the people who oppose homosexual marriage in the US still oppose it if not for their religion? And would the people who throw acid in women's faces in Afghanistan still throw acid if not for their religion? I have no hard evidence for concluding one way or the other on those questions. But my silly suspicion is that religion is key in both cases.
Does god keep you from being as good as you might be?
Skwim
Veteran Member
I think many homophobes, and others who have knee jerk reactions to things they find unacceptable, use religion to validate their prejudices. Couple these with those who would accept such people were it not for the negative spin their religion puts on them, and I think it's pretty apparent that some of the articles of belief constructed around god are destructive.
Actually, I'm pleasantly surprised that theists that adhere to unethical religions can be good regardless of their handicap.
Certain religions are very distasteful, containing horrid violence, hatred, and ignorance, and yet more knowledgeable and compassionate adherents of those religions are able to cherry-pick and use mental gymnastics to avoid the really bad stuff. They dismiss large chunks of violent or otherwise terrible religious scripture and focus instead on the parts they like.
It sounds like I'm criticizing them, and sometimes I do, but I significantly prefer this type of person to a person who actually adheres to the very unethical side of their religion.
Certain religions are very distasteful, containing horrid violence, hatred, and ignorance, and yet more knowledgeable and compassionate adherents of those religions are able to cherry-pick and use mental gymnastics to avoid the really bad stuff. They dismiss large chunks of violent or otherwise terrible religious scripture and focus instead on the parts they like.
It sounds like I'm criticizing them, and sometimes I do, but I significantly prefer this type of person to a person who actually adheres to the very unethical side of their religion.
TheKnight
Guardian of Life
Most people who are against homosexual marriages for "religious" reasons are simply using religion as a prop for their own prejudices and discomfort with homosexuality.
dust1n
Zindīq
Do Warren Buffett and Bill Gates give the lie to the notion that you cannot be good without god? Why or why not?
Does god keep you from being as good as you might be? Why or why not?
H/T Astasia
PST. You can't even spell good with God, let alone be it![/joke]
Storm
ThrUU the Looking Glass
Well, as a panentheist, I don't believe you can be anything without God. 
(Yes, I know that's not what you meant, but I couldn't help myself.)
Anyway, all else being equal, I'd say atheists have the moral high ground over anyone who believes they'll get some kind of reward for good behavior.
(Yes, I know that's not what you meant, but I couldn't help myself.)Anyway, all else being equal, I'd say atheists have the moral high ground over anyone who believes they'll get some kind of reward for good behavior.
EverChanging
Well-Known Member
A person can be good without a god belief, just as there are good people who are theists. I suspect people like Pat Robertson don't really care about God or religion; they just use it as a convenient tool to get power and prey off of naive, misguided people. I do think some people would be better off not believing in their particular version of a deity (or more).
While I agree that many people do this, this is really quite a caricature of the religious. In Christianity and Judaism, accepting every word of the scriptures as literal fact straight from heaven is a modern, innovative concept born of fundamentalism, also a modern movement. A religious text cannot be separated from the tradition it is intertwined with, and tradition has mechanisms to allow scriptural understandings and religious cultures to evolve in order to stay relevant while maintaining and passing down a rich cultural legacy. This also allows for a culture to self-correct, as any culture in any age will inevitably pick up prejudice. I don't see anything wrong with these in-built mechanisms for evolution; they were created for a purpose. Fundamentalism is a dysfunctional mutation, although of course they aren't allowed to acknowledge that they're thoroughly modern.
Still, this is not to deny that religion, even in its more nuanced forms, is often used in unethical ways.
While I agree that many people do this, this is really quite a caricature of the religious. In Christianity and Judaism, accepting every word of the scriptures as literal fact straight from heaven is a modern, innovative concept born of fundamentalism, also a modern movement. A religious text cannot be separated from the tradition it is intertwined with, and tradition has mechanisms to allow scriptural understandings and religious cultures to evolve in order to stay relevant while maintaining and passing down a rich cultural legacy. This also allows for a culture to self-correct, as any culture in any age will inevitably pick up prejudice. I don't see anything wrong with these in-built mechanisms for evolution; they were created for a purpose. Fundamentalism is a dysfunctional mutation, although of course they aren't allowed to acknowledge that they're thoroughly modern.
Still, this is not to deny that religion, even in its more nuanced forms, is often used in unethical ways.
ellenjanuary
Well-Known Member
Well, as a panentheist, I don't believe you can be anything without God.
Anyway, all else being equal, I'd say atheists have the moral high ground over anyone who believes they'll get some kind of reward for good behavior.
That would be my answer - that "without god" is a contradiction in terms. As for the "moral high ground," being in the minority on the fortress on the hill just means that the barbarians down below will set up a seige, or starve you out; and claim that hill as their own. I don't believe in a moral high ground. But a just, ethical consideration may be possible. And that doesn't seem likely until people realise acting "in the Name of God" is only acting for a just, ethical consideration for all in the name of self.
Faithfreedom
i gotta change my avatar
Whoa thar! How do i confirm that both Warren Buffett and Bill Gates do not believe in god?
Breathe
Hostis humani generis
But think of all the souls Pat Robinson is saving! That is true charity! The other two are giving to charity for selfish reasons: to help the poor! Besides, what's a few slaves for more diamonds for more money to get more TV to get more people's souls saved? [/Poe]
Ok, that was really painful to type, even though everyone knows I'm being sarcastic.
One can be good without God, naturally, the same as one can be bad with God, and bad without, and good with.
Does my belief in God keep me personally from being as good as I might be? No, I don't think so. This sounds kind of weird, but my belief in God is pretty much irrelevant to who I am and what I do as a person. Even if I did not believe in God, or an afterlife, or anything of the sort, I would be the same as I am now because I try to be as good as I can be.
Even if it were to fly in the face of my religious beliefs' values, I would still support equality of men and women, same sex marriages, helping out the needy, and scientific advancements.
Does God hold some people back from being as good as they may be? Yes, but at the same time, God holds some people back from being as bad as they can, because they fear some kind of punishment. I have encountered people who have said, for example, that if there was no God and no afterlife they would gladly kill people and rape women without any qualms. Whether they are exaggerating their ability to do evil if they had no form of Divine Retribution to bother with, I do not know--nor would I like anyone to find out.
Just this old fool's two cents.
[/Poe]Ok, that was really painful to type, even though everyone knows I'm being sarcastic.
One can be good without God, naturally, the same as one can be bad with God, and bad without, and good with.
Does my belief in God keep me personally from being as good as I might be? No, I don't think so. This sounds kind of weird, but my belief in God is pretty much irrelevant to who I am and what I do as a person. Even if I did not believe in God, or an afterlife, or anything of the sort, I would be the same as I am now because I try to be as good as I can be.
Even if it were to fly in the face of my religious beliefs' values, I would still support equality of men and women, same sex marriages, helping out the needy, and scientific advancements.
Does God hold some people back from being as good as they may be? Yes, but at the same time, God holds some people back from being as bad as they can, because they fear some kind of punishment. I have encountered people who have said, for example, that if there was no God and no afterlife they would gladly kill people and rape women without any qualms. Whether they are exaggerating their ability to do evil if they had no form of Divine Retribution to bother with, I do not know--nor would I like anyone to find out.
Just this old fool's two cents.
mohammed_beiruti
Active Member
Do Warren Buffett and Bill Gates give the lie to the notion that you cannot be good without god? Why or why not?
Does god keep you from being as good as you might be? Why or why not?
H/T Astasia
donating for the sake of what exacly? it depends.
why should we convict God becuase someone didn't donate ?
sandandfoam
Veteran Member
Do Warren Buffett and Bill Gates give the lie to the notion that you cannot be good without god? Why or why not?
What's good?
I'm not sure about the idea that it has anything to do with how much money gives away - Is Bill Gates' giving more valuable than that of somone who'll give their only coat to another on a cold night?
No.
Because as I see it, God is the way through which I may become everything I am capable of being.
Renji
Well-Known Member
Every person has different standards on being good. What 'faith' in God or a particular religion tells every person about being good is different however.
Supposedly, those who believe in God should be good than those who don't (especially in Christianity) because they believe that there is Someone out there that sees what they are doing. If that's the case, they should be ashamed of doing 'evil'. But what I'm seeing now is different. I'm seeing a lot of the so-called 'non believers' that are actually a better person and believers that are worse( which really turns me off and shake my head).
St Giordano Bruno
Well-Known Member
Kind of ironic isn't it, people who blatantly preach fallacies claim to have a monopoly on good.
Ask them.