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Can you give me an explaination? Something extraordinary happened....

ubothsuk

Member
I would like to get an explanation of something that occurred during a business trip a couple of years ago. This letter is addressed to Christians and Atheists. This is a serious letter, not a joke. I have no doubt that the vast majority of BOTH groups will reveal their TRUE selves in response to the incident.



First let me say, that I do believe in God, however, I do not believe in the “church”. Most of you so-called Christians have some many damn skeletons in your closet, you could fill a couple of graveyards. As for the Atheists, well, your “faith” in the absence of a god is just that; faith, which in my opinion is exactly the same as Christians. However, I am not here to discuss your respective faiths. I don’t mean to sound hostile, I just want to level the playing field because I want an honest answer to what happened to me.



I have a degree in biology, went to grad school, and work in pharm sales. While at a business meeting in Philly, a few of us went out for dinner. I took my digital camera with me to record some memories of my trip. I did not drink that night. After dinner, two of my coworkers and I walked back to the hotel. When had to cross a four lane street to get to the hotel. In the middle of the street was one of those little “islands”; you know, the cement that separates the traffic going in opposite directions. It was about 3-4 ft in width. All three of us walked across the street and hopped up on the little “island”. Once there, I saw a great view of City Hall. I took out my camera. My two co-workers said goodbye as they were going to cross the 3rd and 4th lanes to get to the other side of the street where the hotel was. I said goodnight, and turned on my digital camera.



The camera has one of those digital screens on the back with allows you hold it away from your face. I held the camera up, and took a picture. There was NO ONE near me. My peripheral vision was clear, and as small as the island was, I would have known if someone was near me. There was no one near me. When I got back to my room and downloaded the picture on my computer, I saw the most bizarre and strangest thing I have ever seen. On the left hand side of the picture, there was a index finger pointing upward at an angle. No other parts of a hand, just a finger. It was quite detailed, from the lines in the skin to the shape of the nail bed, it was a human finger. NOT an “orb”, blur, mist, vortex, shadow, outline etc. The thing about it was that is was transparent enough that you could see the structure of the building behind it. It was clearly a ghost. I don’t know the meaning of it, but it was clearly not there when I took the picture.



Now, here is my question; what was that? What is the explanation that either of your camps (Christian or Atheist) can give me. It was very, very detailed. Lets get some stuff straight here some we can save some time. If you are going to type something stupid, sarcastic etc, you obviously have that right. But if you do, you will confirm what a lot of people think; Atheists are arrogant and when confronted with something they can’t explain, they stick their fingers in their ears, close their eyes and hum loudly. And as far as Christians well, you just completely deny what you can’t explain by spitting some scripture at the problem. Why would you not have the guts to say it is what it is? Because that would mean you would have to totally reshape your belief system, maybe your life. Rather than be honest with yourselves you would rather save face; protect your pride and hide among the mass of people who enable each other like a bunch of alcoholics patting each other on back and praising the person who can produce the deepest amount of denial rhetoric. But I am curious as to how many of you will deny the truth. I have not posted or sold this picture, and don’t ask me to post it. I don’t want is to end up on one of those moronic ghost websites, or sold etc. So if you do want to take the easy way out, the coward’s way out, and say I’m lying, then move on. Don’t waist our time. I am looking for serious answers and questions. Here is some detail:

  • I used a digital camera; no double exposure, or errors. This finger is as clear as day.
  • Maybe it was my finger. Well that did cross my mind except for a couple of things; anatomically it looks nothing like me, and I am BLACK. As black as Wesley Snipes; this was the finger of a WHITE man.
  • I held the camera away from my face; NO ONE was near me
  • the island was 3-4 ft in width. I would have seen anyone standing next to me,


So what do I expect in answers? Call me cynical, but

1. I am expecting flaming because you will not have the fortitude to give an honest opinion

2. You will say you need more “proof” when deep down you know that there will never be enough proof for you to admit the truth. This picture is very personal for me. I have only shown it to close friends and family. It is the most extraordinary thing I have ever seen. It has changed my life and prospective on our existence and death as human beings.

3. You will say I am lying. I would expect nothing less from either camp. Like I said, mainstream Christians and Atheists are the same in terms of faith.



True secular scientific philosophy dictates that NOTHING can be proved; only supported. Thus the standard probability values at the end of any reputable scientific study (P>.005). I know what I have. I know exactly what it is, and I know that many of you will deny the truth. You can’t help yourselves. I will however respect the fact that this is a life changing incident, and realize that to admit what it is, will be a very hard thing to do. I would hope that some of you will have the guts to at least say that you don’t know what it is.



So, what is the truth? You know what it is. I don’t have to say it. But, I really do want to get some sort of explanation or different opinions. If I was a little harsh, I did not mean to be. I have evidence of something that is not of our perceived reality, and it is very hard to keep bottled up inside when you know that even those who say they believe in god have trouble accepting it, because their “faith” is confirmed, and they can’t continue their hypocrisy and feel good about themselves. I look forward to seeing some of the replies.
 
*MOD POST*

ubothsuk-- The "Discuss Individual Religions" forum is for asking questions and learning only. Debate/discussion is not allowed. Furthermore, the Atheism forum is for asking questions and learning about atheism only.

Do you want Christians to respond give their opinions in this thread as well? If so, I can move your thread to the Discussion forum, if you like. That way anyone can respond and give their opinion.
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
Mr_Spinkles said:
*MOD POST*

ubothsuk-- The "Discuss Individual Religions" forum is for asking questions and learning only. Debate/discussion is not allowed. Furthermore, the Atheism forum is for asking questions and learning about atheism only.

Do you want Christians to respond give their opinions in this thread as well? If so, I can move your thread to the Discussion forum, if you like. That way anyone can respond and give their opinion.
I didn't spot that!:)
 

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
You can get this effect if the flash went off and your finger was in front. The finger would come out very white.

Terry
__________________________________
Blessed are the poor in spirit, the kingdom of heaven is theirs.
 

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
You could see through it if it were a reflection in the lens. in which case it would be less white as it was a reflection from the front element of the lens, I would expect it was of a finger pointing down wards as it would be reversed by reflection to give your upward pointing finger.
Terry
____________________________
Blessed are the poor in spirit, the kingdom of heaven is theirs.
 

Quiddity

UndertheInfluenceofGiants
You could see through it if it were a reflection in the lens. in which case it would be less white as it was a reflection from the front element of the lens, I would expect it was of a finger pointing down wards as it would be reversed by reflection to give your upward pointing finger.
Terry
Very possible. Would it be the same shade of white whether the person was black vs. white?
But to put my 2 cents into it , I have no idea what it is and not matter what it TRULY is, it would not chatter my belief system.

The Least
~Victor
 

The Black Whirlwind

Well-Known Member
i hope you dont mind a jedi saying anything about your experience.

it is probabaly a soul who has not reconnected with the Force because he/she has some purpose that was unfulfilled in life, and must be fulfilled in death.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
If it was your finger being turned white by the flash, it would still look black. It is possible that it was a spirit trying to point something out.

I have a question for you, ubothsux. Did you leave the picture stored on your digital cameras memory unit? And if you did, did the finger eventually fade?
 

ubothsuk

Member
I appreciate the responses. Let me clarify; it was NOT a "reflection" a flash, or optical effect. Maybe in our politically correct world, I need to be more specific. It was not a "white" finger it was the finger of a caucasian male of what I believe to be of European decent. Trust me, as a african american in this country, and I mean this in a nice way, I know the difference between the color and anatomy of my finger, and that of another person, especially of a caucasian male. Also people, I do have some deductive and analytical reasoning; again I have been in the scientific and medical fields for over 21 yrs, so please take that into consideration. Again, if someone would like to try to give me another explaination, the door is still open. However, for the rest of you I am pleasantly surprised at your civility. I don't expect I will get the same from the Christians. I look forward to more replies in my quest to answer this issue.
 

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
ubothsuk said:
I appreciate the responses. Let me clarify; it was NOT a "reflection" a flash, or optical effect. Maybe in our politically correct world, I need to be more specific. It was not a "white" finger it was the finger of a caucasian male of what I believe to be of European decent. Trust me, as a african american in this country, and I mean this in a nice way, I know the difference between the color and anatomy of my finger, and that of another person, especially of a caucasian male. Also people, I do have some deductive and analytical reasoning; again I have been in the scientific and medical fields for over 21 yrs, so please take that into consideration. Again, if someone would like to try to give me another explaination, the door is still open. Oh, by the way Mr."Jedi" that's exactly the answer I was expecting from someone like you. You obviously have no "game" when it comes to being civil. However, for the rest of you I am pleasantly surprised at your civility. I don't expect I will get the same from the Christians. I look forward to more replies in my quest to answer this issue.
It would help if you could post the picture. I for one have 6o years experience of amateur and professional photography and would expect myself to know if it is not a photographic event.

Terry
______________________________________
Blessed are the pure of heart, they shall behold their God.
 

Melody

Well-Known Member
ubothsuk said:
don't expect I will get the same from the Christians. I look forward to more replies in my quest to answer this issue.
Well, I always did have a problem living up (or down) to people's expectations so I guess this will be no different.

I am a Christian...and quite willing to admit that there is much I don't know and can't explain. Many Christians say it's impossible to believe in reincarnation because the Bible says "such and such"....but you know, when I read the passages they quote, I don't get that same sense of surety. I won't get into my own thoughts on this...or maybe I'll start another thread.

At any rate (sorry for the ramble), I think there's much we don't know and can't explain. I certainly wouldn't rule out spirits, demons or any other such phenomena. As Shakespeare wrote, "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." --Hamlet (I, v, 166-167)
 

EnhancedSpirit

High Priestess
I know a man here in town. An author Chance "Doc" Wyatt. He is in his 60's or 70's. He takes pictures of spirits all over town. He has stories and images posted in the local papers all the time.

I once took a digital picture of my daughter crawling naked on the living room floor. She was less than a year old. The picture came out with bolts of lightening coming out of my baby, shooting out in all directions. It was the most incredible picture. But I lost it when my hard drive crashed. I kick myself for not printing a copy. It was an incredible image.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
I took a picture of my dog once, and there was a face staring back in the picture. But after about 15 minutes, this face that was so clear and visible actually faded and now its hardly thier anymore. Maybe even ghost get camera shy from time to time.:biglaugh:
 

ubothsuk

Member
Luke Wolf said:
If it was your finger being turned white by the flash, it would still look black. It is possible that it was a spirit trying to point something out.

I have a question for you, ubothsux. Did you leave the picture stored on your digital cameras memory unit? And if you did, did the finger eventually fade?
No, the picture did not fade. However, the unit malfunctioned, and is now completely non-functioning. I did however save it to my hard drive, and to a couple of commercial servers just in case something happened. I did not want to lose it under any condition. Very weird that you would ask that question. Have you heard of something like that before?

I don't know how much it would cost, but I have considered having it looked at by objective professional labs/manufacturers, specifically a couple of universities, Kodak, Polaroid, etc. But I've hesistated. I don't intent to sell or exploit it, and I, my family and the people close to me know truth, so why would I have it "verified"?

The only reason to would be if I were to go "public" with it. I have to admit, I did write the Amazing Randy, Tom Likis (sp), and Penn & Teller. Of the 3, only the Amazing Randy wrote back, he was very rude, but after writing him back I guess he sort of apologized and gave me his "conditions" for his challenge, which by the way were completely ridiculous. Lets just say that the professional labs/manufacturers listed about would not be nearly enough to compare to his "opinion" which is the deciding factor in the end. Tom, and Penn & Teller never wrote me back.

At this point, I'm not really sure I even care what they think. Its not for sale or exploitation of any sort. I think they have much more to protect than the individuals on this site. Which is why I am here. I feel like I can get some honest answers and direction. THE PREVIOUS IS NOT A PERSONAL ATTACK ON TOM LIKIS, PENN &TELLER (I'm a big fan of both!) OR THE AMAZING RANDY. We all have a purpose in life, and there are a lot of fakes out there that have to be exposed. Their opinions are needed.

Anyway, please keep sending opinion/explainations. I really appreciate it.

UBS
 

Circle_One

Well-Known Member
Why is it you are only asking for Christians or Atheists? Surely people have other religions have valid points, ideas or theories on this situation as well? Or are only Christians and Atheists of any importance?
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
No, the picture did not fade. However, the unit malfunctioned, and is now completely non-functioning. I did however save it to my hard drive, and to a couple of commercial servers just in case something happened. I did not want to lose it under any condition. Very weird that you would ask that question. Have you heard of something like that before?
I asked, because as I said earlier, the face in the picture of my dog faded. This face was so clear it was impossible to deny it was thier, and then 15 minutes later its not thier. Its now just a small blur in the picture.

The only reason to would be if I were to go "public" with it. I have to admit, I did write the Amazing Randy, Tom Likis (sp), and Penn & Teller.
If Pen & Teller did ever write back, I can probably sum it all up right now. They would probably tell you its BS.
 
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