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Can you will yourself into believing in Santa?

If believing in Santa can make you happy, can you?

  • YES

    Votes: 10 55.6%
  • NO

    Votes: 8 44.4%

  • Total voters
    18

raw_thought

Well-Known Member
I have heard over and over again that believing in Christianity makes you have a happy life.* OK! But considering that conventional Christianity contradicts itself A List Of Biblical Contradictions
Anyway, can anyone believe something because its profitable?
* For example, I would be VERY happy "knowing" that I will spend eternity in heaven as my enemies suffer for eternity.
 

raw_thought

Well-Known Member
Also, ala Pascal's wager, I find the whole idea immoral and illogical!

PS; Believing that good will always be rewarded and evil punished, I speculate, would make me VERY happy! Similarly, believing in Santa would make me happy. But can I ( can you) make yourself believe in something totally irrational, even if it makes your life bearable? And if you can, does that make you moral?
I'd imagine that even Al ( Capone) would be moral in that context.
 
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raw_thought

Well-Known Member
Yes. It's called capitalism.

One example of many.



Exactly how is it immoral or illogical? If you accept the premises of the argument, it's perfectly logical.
Pascal's wager is absurd and immoral. It is absurd because the original proposition can be anything. For example,
1. If you believe that there is an elf that lives under the Washington monument you will be infinitely rewarded.
2. If proposition one is true and you believe, you will be infinitely rewarded.
3. If proposition one is false and you believe , nothing bad will happen to you.
4. Therefore, it is best to believe that there is an elf that lives beneath the Washington monument.
Pascal's wager is immoral because it bases one's faith in God solely on greed and not love. It is also immoral because Pascal implies that self benefit is more important than the truth ( and isn't God equivalent to truth?)…………
I have never understood why faith is considered essential for morality. Suppose I am a child and live with my brother. Upstairs is a room that is locked and no sound comes from it. My brother tells me that I should have faith that our father is alive and lives in that room.Everyday criminals break in, steal our stuff and beat us up. My brother tells me that I should have faith that our father loves us and is not leaving the room to help us because its in our best interest, its just that we don't know why he doesn't leave the room or say anything. After ten years Dad comes out of the room and says to my brother, " Both of you are good people. However I only love you because you had faith that I existed but your brother will be tortured for eternity because he had doubts that I was in the room."
I can see why knowing the truth is a good thing. However, it has nothing to do ( in my opinion) with being a good person. For example, suppose one knows the truth about Jesus and so refrains from sin because he wants to avoid hell and/or have the rewards of heaven. Is that person good? I say no, because it is similar to a gangster that refrains from crime when the cops are around. If one knows the truth ( that God is omniscient) and refrains from sin because of a fear of hell, that person is not necessarily good. Faith ( in my opinion) has nothing to do with morality.
Yes, one should seek God. And God is the source of goodness. However, I still do not see how faith and being worthy of going into heaven are related.
__________________
 
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raw_thought

Well-Known Member
WOW!!!
3 to one! 3 times me can believe a lie if it makes them feel good!:facepalm:
Those that answered the poll ( with a "yes" ) affirmed that they can believe in a lie ( Santa) if it made them feel good!
 
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Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
WOW!!!
3 to one! 3 times me can believe a lie if it makes them feel good!:facepalm:

I'm sorry that you have so much trouble enjoying a good story. But hey, at least you save a lot of money by never going to see movies, read books, see plays, and the like. :shrug:
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
Pascal's wager is absurd and immoral. It is absurd because the original proposition can be anything.

Who told you that the original proposition can be anything? Logical arguments don't work that way, sir.

But yes, it's completely absurd if you ignore what the argument actually says and substitute your own argument that you have already personally deemed to be absurd.

Pascal's wager is immoral because it bases one's faith in God solely on greed and not love.

I don't believe the point of Pascal's wager was to suggest one should acceit the one-god only because of that reason and for no other reason.

That aside, if you believe self-interest is immoral, sure, I can buy that. I find that a very strange way of establishing morality, but whatever floats your boat.

It is also immoral because Pascal implies that self benefit is more important than the truth…………

I don't believe Pascal's wager was meant to imply that either, but again, if you want to believe "truth" (whatever the heck that is) is more important than self-interest, whatever floats your boat. Good luck living in accordance with that.

I have never understood why faith is considered essential for morality.

Neither have I. I'm not sure where this comes in to what we're talking about here, though. Pascal's wager really doesn't deal with good and bad behavior of humans or its hypothetical implications with respect to the one-god.

Yes, one should seek God. And God is the source of goodness. However, I still do not see how faith and being worthy of going into heaven are related.

I don't either, but as a Neopagan, one wouldn't expect me to. This is what some religions who worship the one-god say, and I am content to take them at their word and leave them to their creeds and practices. They don't bother me nor have much impact in my life either way.

But this seems like a different issue than what you initially brought up in the OP?
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
Where does the 'lie' part enter into your equation..

I don't know. I just figured that apparently we're supposed to take stories 100% literally, in which case they are "obvious lies" with respect to known science and history. I mean, since Santa doesn't literally exist, clearly it's worthless to pay any attention to the story and learn something from it. Why waste time with lies? Why bother enjoying stories? BAH HUMBUG!
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
I don't know. I just figured that apparently we're supposed to take stories 100% literally, in which case they are "obvious lies" with respect to known science and history. I mean, since Santa doesn't literally exist, clearly it's worthless to pay any attention to the story and learn something from it. Why waste time with lies? Why bother enjoying stories? BAH HUMBUG!

Right, and the question is silly, if meant literally, it's not even a 'lie', it would be an individuals belief.

Seems like faulty comparison all around.
 

raw_thought

Well-Known Member
???
Seriously, I am not being insulting. I honestly have no clue about what you meant by that last post.
Are you saying that I should relax and enjoy Santa stories? I agree. I am an agnostic and yet love the camaraderie of X-mas.
I also celebrate Halloween, but that does not imply that I am a Satan worshiper.
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
???
Seriously, I am not being insulting. I honestly have no clue about what you meant by that last post.
Are you saying that I should relax and enjoy Santa stories? I agree. I am an agnostic and yet love the camaraderie of X-mas.
I also celebrate Halloween, but that does not imply that I am a Satan worshiper.

'Agnostic' and santa, don't go together. Theism isn't comparable to santa, that's where you're messing up, that's all I'm saying.
I'm santa-less in "camaraderie of X-mas", so your other statement is interesting, but it doesn't apply to me.
 

raw_thought

Well-Known Member
'Agnostic' and santa, don't go together. Theism isn't comparable to santa, that's where you're messing up, that's all I'm saying.
I'm santa-less in "camaraderie of X-mas", so your other statement is interesting, but it doesn't apply to me.
I think you missed my point. I am not saying that a belief in God is as silly as a belief in Santa. I am saying that if your motive for belief is profit, it is.
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
I think you missed my point. I am not saying that a belief in God is as silly as a belief in Santa. I am saying that if your motive for belief is profit, it is.

Ok I would agree, but I didn't 'get the idea', perhaps because santa is just some dude in a red suit to me, I didn't equate purpose to character.
 
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