Canadian tribunal fines $55,000 for expressing Christian views on “transgenderism”

[Saint Frankenstein]

Again, I really would like to have your source as I heard different.

I would like to see your source as you've never presented one.

This source says it's mostly trans women attracted to other women, while trans men are mostly attracted to women.
Transgender sexuality - Wikipedia

It probably doesn't help that "transgender" is used as an umbrella term for different things now, though.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Did he say that he thought of LGBT+ with the same level of disgust he has for pedophiles?

 

[We Never Know]

So you have a double standard. Understood.

I also had double standards when it came to believing in God. Didn't want you preaching around my kids but it

Comparing gay people acting affectionately to animals mating doesn't really help your case. But please, don't let me stop you digging.

I'm not comparing them, you are.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

I'm not comparing them, you are.

Um, you brought them up, it's your comparison.

Is English your second language?

 

[Liu]

I would like to see your source as you've never presented one.

This source says it's mostly trans women attracted to other women, while trans men are mostly attracted to women.
Transgender sexuality - Wikipedia

Because I don't know the actual source - as I wrote in this thread before, I only heard it from some researcher, but I don't remember her source.

Thanks for the heads up.

However, your source says that only 27% of transwomen are "gay, lesbian, or same-gender-loving" - and if a transwoman calls herself gay, I would not be certain whether she not rather means that she is attracted to men, so I'm not fully sure counting them as attracted to women is always correct. It is still more than the 19% percent who call themselves straight (i.e. presumably attracted to males), though. Colour me surprised.

I did some quick google search, and found this which has similar but slightly different numbers: https://www.quora.com/What-percenta...women-as-opposed-to-men-or-both-men-and-women

No you haven't been impolite.
I don't understand so I ask. You can give your idea and I still may not understand. So I ask more. Not wanting it around my children when they were younger was my choice, to me it was no different than not wanting bible believing, God fearing Christians around them.

The difference would be that the Christians would want them to convert, the transpeople would only want them to be tolerant.

If you have any questions feel free to ask.

 

[Sky Rivers]

Okay...

Just over six months ago, I identified as male. In fact, I identified as primarily male for most of my adolescence and young adulthood. As a child, I was a "tomboy", wanting nothing to do with "girly things", be they toys, clothes, or hairstyles. As I matured, I cut my hair to a crew cut and decided to wear men's clothing entirely, including boxers. I bound my breasts, picked a masculine short form for my name and carried on through life. This was my identity for many years and while I considered surgery, I decided against it, simply due to risks, lack of penis functionality, and overall problems with mental instability, associated with taking testosterone.

I settled with the fact I hated my body, whether it was when I looked in the mirror and saw a "man-woman" or when I dressed myself and walked around. While I passed as male more often than not, I wasn't happy. I decided that happiness was an illusion and that emotion blinded my judgment. I became highly apathetic, hiding my misery deep within and focused instead on science, space, my occult practice, politics, and debating "crazy conspiracy theorists".

In 2018, my paradigm was shattered and just prior to October 12th 2018, I became a born again Christian. What happened next, I didn't expect. I no longer felt like a man, trapped in a woman's body and when I looked in the mirror, I found that I had made myself ugly with how I had kept myself.

My hair is now pretty much shoulder length, I wear women's clothing, and I enjoy bright colors when before, I only wanted to wear dull, drab, and dark colors and shades. I no longer feel sexual attraction to women, and the way I now keep myself is in a way which shows I care about my body.

Furthermore, I'm happy, free of gender dysphoria, and identify as the sex I was born as.

 

[We Never Know]

Um, you brought them up, it's your comparison.

Is English your second language?

As a point I didn't let it happen in front of my kids. Even when as you called straight people got handsy I made them get away from my kids.
I didn't let them around bible pushers either. Am I comparing LBGT to bible thumpers? Or am I just stating what I didn't want around my kids when they were young?

 

[We Never Know]

Okay...

Just over six months ago, I identified as male. In fact, I identified as primarily male for most of my adolescence and young adulthood. As a child, I was a "tomboy", wanting nothing to do with "girly things", be they toys, clothes, or hairstyles. As I matured, I cut my hair to a crew cut and decuded to wear men's clothing entirely, including boxers. I bound my breasts, picked a masculine short form for my name and carried on through life. This was my identity for many years and while I considered surgery, I decided against it, simply due to risks, lack of penis functionality, and overall problems with mental instability, associated with taking testosterone.

I settled with the fact I hated my body, whether it was when I looked in the mirror and saw a man-woman or when I dressed myself and walked around. While i passed as male more often than not, I wasn't happy. I decided that happiness was an illusion, and emotion blinded my judgment; I became highly apathetic, hiding the misery deep within and focused instead on science, space, my occult practice, politics, and debating "crazy conspiracy theorists".

In 2018, my paradigm was shattered and just prior to October 12th 2018, I became a born again Christian. What happened next, I didn't expect. I no longer felt like a man, trapped in a woman's body and when I looked in the mirror, I found that I had made myself ugly with how I had kept myself.

My hair is now pretty much shoulder length, I wear women's clothing, and I enjoy bright colors when before, I only wanted to wear dull, drab, and dark colors and shades. I no longer feel sexual attraction to women, and the way I now keep myself is in a way which shows I care about my body.

Furthermore, I'm happy and don't have even a fragment of gender dysphoria left.

This is why I can speak freely on this matter because I lived it and don't want others to endure the hell that it is. Furthermore, while it is unlikely to be a popular opinion, I do believe gender dysphoria is entirely demonic. If that offends someone, it's just my opinion, based on my personal experience with this matter.

I have a female cousin that is lesbian and a male cousin(her nephew) that is gay.
Growing up she was tomboy as can be. Could out buck her brothers in the hay field. She stayed a tomboy all her life. She doesn't try to be a male but she is only interested in females.
Her nephew doesn't try to be female and is only interested in males.
So when it comes to LGBT, I understand the Lesbian and Gay part of it, and even the Bi. I don't understand the Transexual part of it.

 

[We Never Know]

Because I don't know the actual source - as I wrote in this thread before, I only heard it from some researcher, but I don't remember her source.

Thanks for the heads up.

However, your source says that only 27% of transwomen are "gay, lesbian, or same-gender-loving" - and if a transwoman calls herself gay, I would not be certain whether she not rather means that she is attracted to men, so I'm not fully sure counting them as attracted to women is always correct. It is still more than the 19% percent who call themselves straight (i.e. presumably attracted to males), though. Colour me surprised.

I did some quick google search, and found this which has similar but slightly different numbers: https://www.quora.com/What-percenta...women-as-opposed-to-men-or-both-men-and-women

The difference would be that the Christians would want them to convert, the transpeople would only want them to be tolerant.

If you have any questions feel free to ask.

Yes there are some pushy christians out there but many christians just want people to be tolerant of their beliefs. But yet we sure give them hell and it's deemed ok.

 

[Liu]

Okay...

Just over six months ago, I identified as male. In fact, I identified as primarily male for most of my adolescence and young adulthood. As a child, I was a "tomboy", wanting nothing to do with "girly things", be they toys, clothes, or hairstyles. As I matured, I cut my hair to a crew cut and decided to wear men's clothing entirely, including boxers. I bound my breasts, picked a masculine short form for my name and carried on through life. This was my identity for many years and while I considered surgery, I decided against it, simply due to risks, lack of penis functionality, and overall problems with mental instability, associated with taking testosterone.

I settled with the fact I hated my body, whether it was when I looked in the mirror and saw a "man-woman" or when I dressed myself and walked around. While I passed as male more often than not, I wasn't happy. I decided that happiness was an illusion and that emotion blinded my judgment. I became highly apathetic, hiding my misery deep within and focused instead on science, space, my occult practice, politics, and debating "crazy conspiracy theorists".

In 2018, my paradigm was shattered and just prior to October 12th 2018, I became a born again Christian. What happened next, I didn't expect. I no longer felt like a man, trapped in a woman's body and when I looked in the mirror, I found that I had made myself ugly with how I had kept myself.

My hair is now pretty much shoulder length, I wear women's clothing, and I enjoy bright colors when before, I only wanted to wear dull, drab, and dark colors and shades. I no longer feel sexual attraction to women, and the way I now keep myself is in a way which shows I care about my body.

Furthermore, I'm happy, free of gender dysphoria, and identify as the sex I was born as.

Thanks for sharing your story! I would assume that something like this could happen without this negating the possibility of there being transpeople who are better off getting surgery, depending what was the cause of why one felt uncomfortable in one's body. But humans are complex, it's hard to tell in a given case.

It seems unlikely to me that my gender disphoria would have disappeared without surgery etc, and I'm quite happy with my decision.
Regarding religion, having a body now that's neither really female any more nor fully male makes me feel closer to my god actually.
My only concern had been that I will be dependent on hormones for the rest of my life, but admittedly that thought actually feels good to me by now, and since that forces me to go to the doctor every couple of months, I can also address other of my health problems which I otherwise would have not had the motivation to go to the doctor about and I get a free check up of blood values once a year or more.

We can probably never know what would have been the better treatment in each single case, we can only go by statistics. Glad that both of us are happy with the outcome of our decisions.

I have a female cousin that is lesbian and a male cousin(her nephew) that is gay.
Growing up she was tomboy as can be. Could out buck her brothers in the hay field. She stayed a tomboy all her life. She doesn't try to be a male but she is only interested in females.
Her nephew doesn't try to be female and is only interested in males.
So when it comes to LGBT, I understand the Lesbian and Gay part of it, and even the Bi. I don't understand the Transexual part of it.

Your mileage may vary, but in my opinion, there are 3 different levels that may be interrelated but only one of which makes a person transsexual.

Sexual preference: Whether one is homo, hetero or something else. Probably only statistically related to transsexuality.

Preferred gender-expression: How you like to dress, which social roles you identify with, etc.
Probably highly correlated with transsexuality, but there are also many transpeople who say transgender means beyond gender. And there are likely many people who are not trans and still prefer to act like the opposite sex more typically does.

Which sex-related physical characteristics of one's body one feels comfortable with: If there is something there with which one feels so uncomfortable that it causes depression and one would rather look like or more similar to the other sex in that area then one is transsexual in my understanding.

Yes there are some pushy christians out there but many christians just want people to be tolerant of their beliefs. But yet we sure give them hell and it's deemed ok.

I was only referring to the fundamentalists that you said you would not like your children to be close to, not to Christians in general.

As a point I didn't let it happen in front of my kids. Even when as you called straight people got handsy I made them get away from my kids.
I didn't let them around bible pushers either. Am I comparing LBGT to bible thumpers? Or am I just stating what I didn't want around my kids when they were young?

You at least make it sound like you want LGBT people not around your children at all, independent of their actual behavior.

 

[Sky Rivers]

Thanks for sharing your story! I would assume that something like this could happen without this negating the possibility of there being transpeople who are better off getting surgery, depending what was the cause of why one felt uncomfortable in one's body. But humans are complex, it's hard to tell in a given case.

It seems unlikely to me that my gender disphoria would have disappeared without surgery etc, and I'm quite happy with my decision.
Regarding religion, having a body now that's neither really female any more nor fully male makes me feel closer to my god actually.
My only concern had been that I will be dependent on hormones for the rest of my life, but admittedly that thought actually feels good to me by now, and since that forces me to go to the doctor every couple of months, I can also address other of my health problems which I otherwise would have not had the motivation to go to the doctor about and I get a free check up of blood values once a year or more.

We can probably never know what would have been the better treatment in each single case, we can only go by statistics. Glad that both of us are happy with the outcome of our decisions.

I do wish you well and thank you for the response.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I dunno Frank. You don't come across as being a person particularly happy or comfortable.

Psst: neither do you.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

As a point I didn't let it happen in front of my kids.

And in the context you used it, it was a comparison. But anyway.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

mastectomy qualifies as mutilation. Do you disagree?

I'm sure everyone who's survived breast cancer disagrees.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

However, your source says that only 27% of transwomen are "gay, lesbian, or same-gender-loving" - and if a transwoman calls herself gay, I would not be certain whether she not rather means that she is attracted to men, so I'm not fully sure counting them as attracted to women is always correct. It is still more than the 19% percent who call themselves straight (i.e. presumably attracted to males), though. Colour me surprised.

Definitely. I've found my attraction to women was really just me trying to be who others think I should be. And I wouldn't consider myself gay because women just aren't my thing and being with a man while being male myself was always an uncomfortable thought for some reason. I've also heard from a few who "settle" for women because they can't get a man and don't want to be alone.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

I'm sure everyone who's survived breast cancer disagrees.

And their families and care givers, at least.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I wouldn't let my kids around horses, cows or dogs mate either. I guess I had quintuple standards.

I'm curious about that. Growing up around farms, it's pretty much impossible to shelter kids from that. Dogs, cows, horses, sheep, goats, it's a part of life, they are making babies, and really the only way you'll shelter your kids from it there is to make them blind and deaf (cows are NOT quiet).

 

[Shadow Wolf]

And their families and care givers, at least.

Yup. And of course the definitions of mutilation do revolve around permanent damage and disfigurement. This is simply unavoidable for numerous surgeries (I've got at least 8 scars on/around my left knee, two of them heavy). Really, it has to be asked why it's being done if we are going to go by a strict definition of mutilation, because every parent who has gotten their little girl's ears pierced has caused permanent damage to the ear lobes by having holes poked in them. But we don't consider it mutilation, but rather a social norm. But when it comes to a surgery, like all medical treatments the risks have to be weighed against the benefits. Even severe burn victims are often "mutilated" to obtain skin grafts to help their burns heal.

 

[Sky Rivers]

I'm sure everyone who's survived breast cancer disagrees.

It's still technically mutilation, according to the dictionary.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

It's still technically mutilation, according to the dictionary.

Not really. The mammary glands are removed, but such is done to preserve life, which pretty much excludes it from fitting the definition of mutilation. To not do so would more be mutilation as to not have the cancer removed is to cause permanent, irreparable, and fatal damage to the body. A fox may tear it's leg off to escape a trap, but is the preservation of life really mutilation? Damage cannot be escaped either way, and it's a situation of taking a lesser damage to prevent a greater damage.