Capitalism is Killing the Planet

[Estro Felino]

The real failure of capitalism and the culture that we are living in that accommodates it is that it's based on competition instead of cooperation.

This is absolutely true.
Resources are limited, so cooperation is the only sensible thing to do.
Competition is not only childish. But also self-detrimental.

 

[Estro Felino]

Tis a problem I love having.

Note that unregulated & badly regulated socialism
has also posed problems for humans.
.

It takes a very intelligent economic plan to put socialism into action.
Economists, investments...

It cannot be improvised in the short run.
Makeshift socialism is disastrous, of course.

 

[Secret Chief]

I missed the part of geology & physics classes about capitalism's threat.
Have you ever considered blaming actual causes of problems?

I missed it too. What are the actual causes?

 

[Revoltingest]

It takes a very intelligent economic plan to put socialism into action.
Economists, investments...

It cannot be improvised in the short run.
Makeshift socialism is disastrous, of course.

It cannot be done even in the long run, if historical
examples of socialism's performance predicters.

It's important to consider why one wants socialism.
What are the larger goals leading to lust for a command economy?
Many can be achieved better in a capitalist economy.

 

[Secret Chief]

I agree that capitalism is a huge part of the problem and when mixed with consumerism there are no way that it will ever turn out good as I see it. But it is a self destructive system out of control in my opinion, with no obvious way to stop it, because the system is entangled in all countries and world economy and as I see it, makes it impossible for there to be a first mover to change it. There are simply to many businesses and people relying on this system to keep making profit that no one will or probably can stop it.

I do think that it will eventually stop through a natural collapse when it is simply not possible to maintain it or alternatively when it gets surpassed by a more effective system capable of reducing the value of things, but that is probably far out in the future, so my guess is that it will be a collapse.

I agree. I suspect the effects of global warming are likely to accelerate and create accumulating crises. Naturally the 1% will be protected from this.

 

[Kooky]

I would not agree, it is UNCONTROLLED/UNREGULATED capitalism that causes the problem.

No capitalist economy on this planet is unregulated.

 

[Kooky]

Is this the same George Monbiot that made money.off of writing environmental.books and whose net worth is $1.6 million?

A successful author of environmentalist literature championing environmentalism?
What COLLUSION! The mind boggles!

 

[Kooky]

Greed is killing the planet. Can capitalism function without greed? Don’t know, but whatever capitalism actually is, it’s proved quite adaptable up to now. So perhaps capitalism can move beyond selling us crap we don’t need, if we can move beyond wanting it.

It's not "greed" that has publically traded companies seeking profit, they are literally required by law to do so.

 

[Estro Felino]

It cannot be done even in the long run, if historical
examples of socialism's performance predicters.

It's important to consider why one wants socialism.
What are the larger goals leading to lust for a command economy?
Many can be achieved better in a capitalist economy.

1) Because godly providence does not exist, so Adam Smith was wrong about the invisible hand.

2) Because economy is not a clock that works automatically. It needs to be fixed artificially and 24/7

3) Because we Europeans believe in the principles of economic and social solidarity

4) Because we Europeans believe in a State that, as spiritual entity, assures equality and equal opportunities.

5) Because Labor is not a kind concession from the Capitalist. It is a fundamental right of the citizen. And the State has the obligation to give anyone this right.

 

[Revoltingest]

1) Because godly providence does not ecist, so Adam Smith was wrong

Adam Smith is not our prophet.
Capitalism is what it is, his sky fairy views notwithstanding.

2) Because economy is not a clock that works automatically. It needs to be fixed artificially and 24/7

Whuh?

3) Because we Europeans believe in the principles of economic and social solidarity

OK.
Socialism isn't necessary for that....as so
many capitalist Eurostanian countries show.

4) Be ausr we Europeans believe in a State that, as spiritual entity, assures equality and equal opportunities.

See above.

5) Because Labor is not a kind concession from the Capitalist. It is a fundamental right of the citizen. And the State has the obligation to give anyone this right.

If employment is a right, then would this mean
that it can be imposed upon an employer against
their will? Nah.

 

[Kooky]

First, we are NOT going to kill the planet. Just look at what the planet has been thorugh before:

Cretaceous-Ternary extinction: This is when the dinosaurs died off from a meteor impact and lava flows.

Permian Triassic extinction: about 98% of all life in the ocean went extinct.

There were inland seas in the central US at times.

There are others. But the point is that the *planet* and *life* bounced back from all of these extinction events. Sometimes it took a million years or two, but the planet didn't die. And life continued.

So, saying that we are killing the planet is simply hyperbole.

What we *are* doing is causing another extinction event. And, humans have been doing that for at least 10,000 years when we contributed to the extinctions at the end of the last ice age. We *are* changing the climate in a way that will cause sea level rise. And *that* is making it very uncomfortable for our cities on the coasts.

We are contributing to events that are going to have severe economic impact in ways that will harm billions of people. We are contributing to one of the great extinction events of the history of the Earth.

We might even manage to kill ourselves off.

But if we do, the planet and life will bounce back and in a couple of million years, things will be back to some type of 'normal' without us.

Correct. What we're killing is human civilization as we know it, along with most of the world's current ecosystems which we require for our civilization to sustain itself. The planet will be fine, long after we've made ourselves die out alongside a significant portion of modern plant and animal life.


It is a misnomer to think of environmentalists and climate activists as people trying to "save the planet".
They really are not; what they're trying to do is save ourselves from our own destruction.

 

[Estro Felino]

If employment is a right, then would this mean
that it can be imposed upon an employer against
their will? Nah.

The Constitution of my country says yes.

 

[Revoltingest]

The Constitution of my country says yes.

Ours doesn't.

 

[Estro Felino]

Ours doesn't.

I dare not imagine what you think of these...

Spoiler: Italian Constitution

 

[Revoltingest]

I dare not imagine what you think of these...

Spoiler: It Cos

View attachment 57139

It sounds ripe for abuse by SJW lawmakers & enforcers.

 

[Lyndon]

The american constitution is primitive by comparison, Its over 200 years out of date.

 

[Secret Chief]

It sounds ripe for abuse by SJW lawmakers & enforcers.

Ugh, social justice.

 

[Bodie]

A successful author of environmentalist literature championing environmentalism?
What COLLUSION! The mind boggles!

Kind of like when the wife beating millionaire John Lenmon wrote Imagine ( imagine no possessions, etc)
from his mansion.

 

[Nakosis]

- Capitalism is killing the planet – it’s time to stop buying into our own destruction | George Monbiot

"In consenting to the continued destruction of our life-support systems, we accommodate the desires of the ultra-rich and the powerful corporations they control.

We will endure only if we cease to consent. The 19th-century democracy campaigners knew this, the suffragettes knew it, Gandhi knew it, Martin Luther King knew it. The environmental protesters who demand systemic change have also grasped this fundamental truth .... we see people, mostly young people, refusing to consent. What they understand is history’s most important lesson. Our survival depends on disobedience."

Thoughts?

IMO, people are killing the planet, not the economic system.
The opposite of obedience is anarchy. Neither extreme seems inviting.
Hopefully humanity will find it's way to someplace in the middle.

 

[RestlessSoul]

Ours doesn't.

No, but your Declaration of Independence held certain truths to be self evident.

By any reasonable interpretation, the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness must surely imply the right to work, and to be paid fairly for doing that work?