Hevenly Heathen
Seeker
I thought we were talking about Socialism, not Tyranny... Did I get off on the wrong stop?Tyranny did.
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Capitalism or socialism??
- Thread starter Seeker4
- Start date
LOL You are funny in a vacant kind of way.
Awe, sorry, I didn't intend to be. Thanks for the compliment, but where is the response?
Obviously.
Go back and read what led up to all this.
You fell off the track somewhere.
Hevenly Heathen
Seeker
And you are a master at avoiding conversation.
Hevenly Heathen
Seeker
Now don't start that againSynonyms
... I thought we had come to a good spot, agreeing to disagree with the odds in my favor
You know Martin, all this brain storming you have done to come up with an improved system seems to lack this one factor, Incentive.
I will give you that your intentions are pure, noble in fact, but I cannot help noticing how no matter how many things change, human nature stays the same.
Slave owners wanted someone else to do the work for them.
Welfare folks want someone else to do their work for them.
Socialism lacks responsibility to do your fair share.
The only answer to achieve your goals that I see is if workers actually owned their corporation they worked for. The hard working members would kick out the lazy butts so they would only share with the people who are deserving.
I'm sorry, but if you do nothing constructive, all you are entitled to in my opinion is basic food and shelter and nothing more. If we spend money so we can keep you alive beyond your natural life time, it is a waste of effort and resourses.
If we actually want to improve people's lives, we have to find a way for them to become productive for their own good and others.
I don't want to lower my life style, I want others to obtain what I have.
Life can never be fair even if we could make life fair.
Lets say when you turn 21 years old the government gives you a house, car and job.
Some people will maintain their home while others will let their home become run down.
Some folks will treat their new car like their baby while others will hotrod theirs and get drunk and wreck it the first night out in their new ride.
People will never have the same lifestyle even if we had a system that was fair to a fault.
You cannot change the fact that some folks are just losers due to their poor decisions.
You cannot change the fact that some folks will not be productive.
If a system is going to work, there has to be rewards for good behaviour and consequences for poor decisions. There really is no way around this.
Lets say when you turn 21 years old the government gives you a house, car and job.
Some people will maintain their home while others will let their home become run down.
Some folks will treat their new car like their baby while others will hotrod theirs and get drunk and wreck it the first night out in their new ride.
People will never have the same lifestyle even if we had a system that was fair to a fault.
You cannot change the fact that some folks are just losers due to their poor decisions.
You cannot change the fact that some folks will not be productive.
If a system is going to work, there has to be rewards for good behaviour and consequences for poor decisions. There really is no way around this.
Phil, is it fair for folks with no car to pay for streets? I prefer a use tax tied to gasoline. The more gas you burn, the more you should contribute.
We want folks to pay their fair share right?
This also has the advantage of discouraging fuel consumption, thus conserving that resource.
(Good for our air, & our national security.)
Why is it so hard for pols to understand that how we tax is at least as important as how much we tax.
In the same way Anarchists are hypocrites for living under a government.
Or anti-war people are hypocrites for living in a world that has war.
No. We live here, yet have little control over the rules under which we live.
Just like Socialists who use the private sector without hypocrisy, so we may use the public sector.
And we may each try in our own small way to alter the system more to our liking.
Politics may also be thought akin to the definition of "engineering", ie, a series of intelligent & optimized compromises.
Greed has connotations of losing sight of other important thingies, eg, legality, risk, ethics.
Rapacious yet rational self interest may be called "greed", but is as you say, useful for society.
Greed is the motivator, being safe and fair is wise strategy to achieve success. Am I after a quick buck or do I have a long term goal that is better to achieve?
I definitely agree!
nnmartin
Well-Known Member
The line in bold is where I disagree, and is one over the over touted anti-Socialist slogans out there.
Agreed, some Welfare recipients are lazy, but most would love to have a viable job given the opportunity.
As I've mentioned before, the very system of capitalism needs a large surplus labour pool - ie: the unemployed.
This is one of it's basic requirements that allows the wage levels to be kept down and the profits of the owners up - you cannot blame the unemployed for this as they are merely the rejected canon fodder of the system.
Socialism can allow for full employment, whilst whittling down the obscene profits of the few to more realistic amounts.
Who needs 5 luxury cars when the working man next door struggles to feed his family and pay his daily bus fare to work and back?
yes, nationalise all large businesses and provide work for all.
It is not possible for us to all be rich but we should be able to all have the permanent opportunity of providing a life for ourselves above the poverty threshold.
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More like a master of stating the obvious.
Brevity is the soul of wit.
I don't tell someone how to build a watch when all they need to know is the time.