Capitalists may have the same mentality as Nazis: that people must be enslaved

[clara17]

There is no absolute value to rich, it is always in comparison to your neighbours. Owning a home and a car isn't rich in a developed nation. Owning two homes and two cars is well off.
Owning stocks that allow you to maintain two homes and two cars without having to work is when richness starts (in a developed nation, today). (And it is obvious that at that point you get your money from the work of others.)

maybe were in agreement on some things, I dont think stock trading should be legal

 

[clara17]

We are all infected by the greed of capitalism. It's inescapable in our culture. If we tried to be more honest and fair with each other we would just be all the more exploited by those that aren't. Greed and selfishness are contagious. As soon as one of us engages in it we force everyone around us to engage in it, too, just to protect themselves from us.

To be honest, I still dont understand what capitalism is. If you ask 5000 people you get 5000 answers. No one can explain when it started, who started it, what law would eliminate it, what the world looks like it without it, which countries have it and which dont. It seems like its a catch all for 'anything I dont like.'

 

[Sargonski]

That's what transpires from Hannah Arendt's books : that the IG Farben demanded from the Nazis slave labor, and Jews were exploited so that the Capitalists that owned the IG Farben could obtain the profit maximization, and produce chemicals with basically zero costs of productions.

This is what Capitalism does to men: it transforms them into greedy people, who lose their humanhood, so I am entitled to call them greedy wolves.
Greedy, sadistic wolves disposed to enjoy seeing Jews dying while working in those camps.
They even built their factories around Auschwitz on purpose.
It's all in Hannah Arendt's book The banality of evil.

Thoughts?

think you can drop the "May" Brother Felino -- tis a historical imperative of Fascism .. the definition of Fascism = unholy Fusion of Oligopoly with Bureaucracy .. least that is how Mussolini defined it.

You see .. Extreme Socialism (totalitarian communism for example) and Extreme Capitalism (Feudal Oligopoly System) meet at the far end of the spectrum .. . In both cases you have a few individuals in control of near all wealth and means of production. .. and the rest of us just serfs.

 

[Wu Wei]

That's what transpires from Hannah Arendt's books : that the IG Farben demanded from the Nazis slave labor, and Jews were exploited so that the Capitalists that owned the IG Farben could obtain the profit maximization, and produce chemicals with basically zero costs of productions.

This is what Capitalism does to men: it transforms them into greedy people, who lose their humanhood, so I am entitled to call them greedy wolves.
Greedy, sadistic wolves disposed to enjoy seeing Jews dying while working in those camps.
They even built their factories around Auschwitz on purpose.
It's all in Hannah Arendt's book The banality of evil.

Thoughts?

Really, only capitalists

1. Xi Jinping, the President of China, who is estimated to have a personal net worth of over $1 billion through his family's business dealings and real estate investments.
2. Kim Jong-un, the Supreme Leader of North Korea, who has access to a vast personal slush fund estimated at over $5 billion, in addition to the wealth of the entire North Korean state.
3. Raúl Castro, the former President of Cuba, whose family is believed to control up to 60% of the Cuban economy through various state-owned enterprises.

 

[Revoltingest]

To be honest, I still dont understand what capitalism is. If you ask 5000 people you get 5000 answers. No one can explain when it started, who started it, what law would eliminate it, what the world looks like it without it, which countries have it and which dont. It seems like its a catch all for 'anything I dont like.'

It gets confusing because so few people use dictionaries
these days. And anti-capitalists's definition of it is
naught but a laundry list of complaints, often about
things imagined.

But I'm here to the rescue!
In short....
Capitalism is your right to start & run a business
selling your products & services to your customers.

 

[Kfox]

I borrowed the phrase "hard work" from @TagliatelliMonster together with its meaning. Long hours, hard decisions, deep thinking - non of these alone or together will make you rich.

How do you know this?

 

[Kfox]

Without them, you'd need rich parents or a lucky lottery number.

I knew a guy who started his own business, he did much of the physical work himself. Eventually he was successful enough to hire people to do the physical work, and though at that point he was not rich, he still put in long hours, managing his business which included deep thinking, and making a lot of decisions. After managing his business this way for a few years, he eventually became rich.

 

[Kfox]

By the standards of the community you live in, as I said. When everyone around you has a house and a car, you're not rich if you have that also.

So just because you own 2 homes and 2 cars does not mean you are well off.

Of course, isn't that obvious?

Not based on what you said.

 

[Heyo]

I knew a guy who started his own business, he did much of the physical work himself. Eventually he was successful enough to hire people to do the physical work, and though at that point he was not rich, he still put in long hours, managing his business which included deep thinking, and making a lot of decisions. After managing his business this way for a few years, he eventually became rich.

See, he couldn't do it alone.

 

[Wu Wei]

That's what transpires from Hannah Arendt's books : that the IG Farben demanded from the Nazis slave labor, and Jews were exploited so that the Capitalists that owned the IG Farben could obtain the profit maximization, and produce chemicals with basically zero costs of productions.

This is what Capitalism does to men: it transforms them into greedy people, who lose their humanhood, so I am entitled to call them greedy wolves.
Greedy, sadistic wolves disposed to enjoy seeing Jews dying while working in those camps.
They even built their factories around Auschwitz on purpose.
It's all in Hannah Arendt's book The banality of evil.

Thoughts?

But wait there is more.... you favorite guy is there too

Even though Vladimir Putin officially claims an annual salary of $140,000, the Russian President's reported net worth and lifestyle tell a different tale.

While Putin acknowledges ownership of an 800-square-foot apartment, a trailer, and three cars, persistent rumours suggest a more extravagant reality. Reports suggest that Putin's personal wealth stood at a staggering $200 billion. Such claims, originating from a major investor in Russia during the 1990s, continue to circulate and add layers to the mystery surrounding Putin's finances.

World's Richest Politician Is Worth $200 Billion, Owns A $700 Million Jet

Despite officially claiming an annual salary of $140,000, Russian President Vladimir Putin's reported net worth and lifestyle tell a different tale.

www.ndtv.com

So don't even try to sell me Capitalism transforms men into greedy people, who lose their humanhood,

And I guess as long as you include Xi, Putin, Kim and Castro in that group, well then I guess you might be able to call them greedy wolves..but entitled...nope I am entitled to call them. Entitled means believing oneself be inherently deserving of privileges or special treatment. Nah, Communists are Greedy Wolves too, especially the higher you go up the Communist food chain

 

[Revoltingest]

I knew a guy who started his own business, he did much of the physical work himself. Eventually he was successful enough to hire people to do the physical work, and though at that point he was not rich, he still put in long hours, managing his business which included deep thinking, and making a lot of decisions. After managing his business this way for a few years, he eventually became rich.

I too know such people.
They're fortunate to be able to make the transition
from doing a trade to running a business wherein
employees perform that trade. Very different skills
& focus.

 

[clara17]

It gets confusing because so few people use dictionaries
these days. And anti-capitalists's definition of it is
naught but a laundry list of complaints, often about
things imagined.

But I'm here to the rescue!
In short....
Capitalism is your right to start & run a business
selling your products & services to your customers.

I appreciate the clarity. So once we eliminate the ability of people to start and run businesses, (which would include I assume, all agriculture unless you consume everything you grow, medical care except for volunteer work, delivery of goods, manufacture of goods for sale ) then the majority of society's problems have been solved?

 

[PureX]

To be honest, I still don't understand what capitalism is. If you ask 5000 people you get 5000 answers.

Yes, that is certainly true. But it's actually a simple concept. Capitalism is an economic system that gives control over commercial production to the capital investor. If you put up the money for some business enterprise, you get to call all the shots regarding how that enterprise is run regardless of how many other people's well-being are going to be effected by that business enterprise and by your decisions. And as we all know only too well, those decisions are nearly always going to be determined based on maximizing the profit returned to the capitol investor. And NOT on the well-being of all those being effected by that business enterprise, like the workers, the customers, the vendors, or the community in which the business operates. .

No one can explain when it started, who started it, what law would eliminate it, what the world looks like it without it, which countries have it and which don't. It seems like its a catch all for 'anything I don't like.'

There's a lot of inadvertent AND deliberate dishonesty going on with this subject because there are a lot of people that really don't want to face the reality that capitalism is nothing more than systematized greed. It's Darwinian economics. Wealth being rewarded with more wealth. The rich get richer and too bad for everyone else. The more investment capital you have to invest, the more control you have over the businesses you're invested in. And the more you will use that control to maximize the profit being returned to you on your investment. So now you have even MORE capital to invest.

It makes money predatory and the investor class the predators.

The investor class sure don't want to see themselves as being predators, though, and they sure don't want anyone else seeing them that way, either, or they might revolt. So they spend a lot of time and energy and money making sure we don't see it that way. Which is why you are experiencing such a deluge of contradictory information. The whole point is to make sure you don't know what to believe.

In modern times there are a couple of solutions to the problem of capitalist greed. One is to keep passing laws that try and mitigate the damage being done to society by all that capitalist greed. Trying to protect the workers, and the consumers, and the community and the environment. But that's always only addressing the symptoms, and not the actual problem. It's also always playing an endless game of 'whack-a-mole' as the "solutions" are always too little and too late.

Another method of trying to mitigate the damage done by capitalist greed is a bit more to the point. And that is to force the capital investors to share control over the commercial enterprises they are invested in with the other people being effected by it, like the laborers, the customers, the vendors, and the community. But this gets complicated and can still become corrupted. Not to mention that the capitalists will fight against it and try to corrupt it with everything they've got.

All is not hopeless, however, as most humans would prefer to live within their means and in harmony and cooperation with each other rather than live in constant competition for all the goodies; and surrounded by 'sharks'. So that if a viable possibility can be resented to them, most would be willing to take it,

 

[Revoltingest]

I appreciate the clarity. So once we eliminate the ability of people to start and run businesses, (which would include I assume, all agriculture unless you consume everything you grow, medical care except for volunteer work, delivery of goods, manufacture of goods for sale ) then the majority of society's problems have been solved?

Solved?
There's no such thing as solving societal problems.
They can only be temporarily improved / mitigated.

 

[clara17]

Yes, that is certainly true. But it's actually a simple concept. Capitalism is an economic system that gives control over commercial production to the capital investor. If you put up the money for some business enterprise,

But we don't have anything like that in any law, any founding document. How does this system come about? Or is capitalism the lack of a system, and we need a system of controls?

 

[clara17]

In modern times there are a couple of solutions to the problem of capitalist greed. One is to keep passing laws that try and mitigate the damage being done to society by all that capitalist greed. Trying to protect the workers, and the consumers, and the community and the environment. But that's always only addressing the symptoms, and not the actual problem. It's also always playing an endless game of 'whack-a-mole' as the "solutions" are always too little and too late.

Another method of trying to mitigate the damage done by capitalist greed is a bit more to the point. And that is to force the capital investors to share control over the commercial enterprises they are invested in with the other people being effected by it, like the laborers, the customers, the vendors, and the community. But this gets complicated and can still become corrupted. Not to mention that the capitalists will fight against it and try to corrupt it with everything they've got.

It seems like what you describe is the problem with international business. Not with business. If a company, business, corporate enterprise is extracting wealth from 10, 20, 150 countries, then which one is it loyal to? none. If their activities are destructive to one country, what do they care, they have all the others to profit from. But a company that does business within its own country has everything to lose, and has to consider the consequences of their own activities. Maybe international business should be treated differently, viewed differently, taxed differently.

 

[PureX]

But we don't have anything like that in any law, any founding document. How does this system come about? Or is capitalism the lack of a system, and we need a system of controls?

It came about by lack of consideration. By people being greedy and selfish when they could get away with it because as a society we were not thoughtful enough to stop it before it started. Ands it got worse. And then worse, and worse. Until now we are all choking on the horrible effects of it all.

 

[clara17]

It came about by lack of consideration. By people being greedy and selfish when they could get away with it because as a society we were not thoughtful enough to stop it before it started. Ands it got worse. And then worse, and worse. Until now we are all choking on the horrible effects of it all.

should we start teaching do unto others? maybe more Bible focused approach

 

[Kfox]

It depends on the culture we are living in. in THIS culture most of those things are necessary.

Those things are no more necessary for the average person than the private Jet, yacht, and mansion is necessary for the billionaire.

And you're ignoring the most important thing, and that's access to real opportunity.

There is more opportunity to get rich today than in any time in history

Under capitalism, the capitalists control the commerce, with the singular goal of maximizing the profits being returned on their capital investment.

No they don't, they only control commerce associated with their business. If I opened a business of my own, some billionaire across the country has no effect on how I run it.

So nearly all possible opportunities are under their control and aimed at the goal of serving their greed.

Jus because you say it doesn't make it true. If I opened a restaurant in my neighborhood, what effect or control does Jeff Bezos Bill Gates, or Elon Musk have over my business?

Wealth is power (control) and so that wealth is being rewarded with more wealth. And that process is predatory because contrary to this big lie the capitalists so love to tell us all, they are NOT "creating wealth". They are capturing it.

The only wealth a capitalist can capture is a percentage of the wealth they create.

Those other people are just their minions, serving their greed: i.e., acting on behalf of their goal to maximize the return on the capital they've invested.

No, those other people are the people running the business the rich guy is invested in.

All of them. Or they would not be rich.

No one single human contributes so much to the well-being of mankind that they deserve to possess or control hundreds of times more wealth than any other human. So anyone that does possess or control that much wealth is just another greedy capitalist pig.

No, no no; you said the rich hoard wealth, now you're trying to change it. Explain how, and give examples of how the rich hoard wealth.

 

[Kfox]

See, he couldn't do it alone.

Who said anything about doing anything alone? the claim was that nobody gets rich by working long hours, deep thinking, and making lots of decisions. I gave an example of someone who did get rich that way.