Cartoons Under Fire

[Jayhawker Soule]

From BBC NEWS...

French editor fired over cartoons​

The editor of a French newspaper that printed cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad has been sacked.

Jacques Lefranc was dismissed by the owner of France Soir, as his paper became embroiled in a developing row between Muslims and the European press.

Some Muslim countries have withdrawn their ambassadors to Denmark and boycotted Danish products after a paper there first printed the cartoons.

Norway has closed its West Bank mission to the public in response to threats.

< -- snip -- >​

Publications in Germany, Italy, the Netherlands and Spain also re-ran the Danish cartoons on Wednesday to show support for free speech.

However France Soir owner Raymond Lakah, a French Egyptian, said in a statement to AFP news agency that he "decided to remove Jacques Lefranc as managing director of the publication as a powerful sign of respect for the intimate beliefs and convictions of every individual".

< -- snip -- >​

Danish Prime Minister Anders Fogh Rasmussen welcomed the paper's apology, but has rejected calls to punish the paper, saying the government cannot censor the press.

Reporters Without Borders said the reaction in the Arab world "betrays a lack of understanding" of press freedom as "an essential accomplishment of democracy."
​

I support Prime Minister Rasmussen and Raymond Lakah on this one ...

 

[Smoke]

I support Prime Minister Rasmussen and Raymond Lakah on this one ...

This was the Muslim response to the initial printing of the cartoons:

The republications came after protesters in the Gaza Strip and the West Bank this week burned Denmark's flag, called for attacks on Scandinavians, and after some majority-Muslim nations shut their Copenhagen embassies and boycotted Danish goods. Tensions escalated after a Danish Muslim delegation went to the Middle East in December to rally support against the cartoons. (Bloomberg.com)

​

Notice: Danish Muslims actually traveled to the Middle East to stir up protesters calling for attacks on Scandinavians. It's the Muslims who should apologize.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Notice: Danish Muslims actually traveled to the Middle East to stir up protesters calling for attacks on Scandinavians. It's the Muslims who should apologize.

Those who called for "attacks on Scandinavians" (if any) should be denounced as irresponsible scum. Those who called for legal protests against Denmark, its government and its press were within their rights.

 

[Smoke]

Those who called for "attacks on Scandinavians" (if any) should be denounced as irresponsible scum. Those who called for legal protests against Denmark, its government and its press were within their rights.

When you call for protests in the Muslim world, violence is what you get.

December: "The Pakistani religious party Jamaat-e-Islami and its youth branch have offered a bounty for anyone who murders the Danish illustators who drew cartoons of Muhammad for the Danish daily newspaper Jyllands-Posten." (Brussels Journal)

January: "Angered by the drawings, masked Palestinian gunmen briefly took over a European Union office in Gaza on Monday." (Seattle Press)

Also January: "'Consultations are currently taking place at the highest level between Arab countries and the OIC to ask the UN to adopt a binding resolution banning contempt of religious beliefs and providing for sanctions to be imposed on contravening countries or institutions,' he [deputy secretary-general of the Arab League, Ahmed Ben Helli] said." (Aljazeera)

The best way to prevent people from having contempt for your religion is to stop behaving in a contemptuous manner. The idea that Muslim countries that persecute members of other religions should have the audacity to complain about cartoons is ludicrous.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

I draw cartoons for the student newspaper, so of course I sympathize with freedom of speech. At the same time, people are morally obligated to use their free speech in a responsible way.

I do find it somewhat hypocritical for the same European countries who have outlawed denial of the Holocaust and displaying Nazi symbols to now celebrate freedom of speech by re-publishing cartoons that make fun of Muhammad.

 

[YmirGF]

Muslims have to try to understand that violent reactions to mere cartoons simply underscore the validity of those cartoons. It is sort of like the old chicken and the egg routine.

Perhaps if Islam presented a slightly less rabid face to the world, cartoons like this would never see the light of day.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Perhaps if Islam presented a slightly less rabid face to the world, cartoons like this would never see the light of day.

Islam is not responsible for my ethics. Radical Islam may explain the cartoons, but it does not justify them.

 

[michel]

Islam is not responsible for my ethics. Radical Islam may explain the cartoons, but it does not justify them.

I agree with you, in essense. But what about the cartoons of Bush ? - there have been numerous ones made to represent him as being a 'mentally challenged war-monger'.

Surely cartoons (and I have to say I did not see the Danish ones, so I can't judge) have been used as a form of satire since newspapers came into being ?

I find the 'Political Correctness' a bit absurd; a Muslim commedian can stand on stage here in England and poke great fun at his own people (and there is one who does, and he is incredibly funny), but if an Englishman said the same thing, he would be accused of numerous transgressions. Were the Danish Cartoons so dreadful ?

 

[Smoke]

Radical Islam may explain the cartoons, but it does not justify them.

I think it does. When Muslims commit acts of violence and oppression and say it's religious conviction that makes them do so, I believe them. When Christians commit acts of violence and oppression and say it's religious conviction that makes them do so, I believe them. When Jews commit acts of violence and oppression and say it's religious conviction that makes them do so, I believe them. When Hindus commit acts of violence and oppression and say it's religious conviction that makes them do so, I believe them.

What's the alternative? To say that they don't understand their own religions? That they are outside their own religions?

Believers imagine that they can behave in any abominable manner that suits them, and then have the temerity to be offended by criticism. Cartoons are not the problem. Religious violence and religious oppression of others are the problem.

Muslims hold the entire nation of Denmark responsible for a few cartoons. Well, fair's fair: Islam is responsible for Muslim violence. Christianity is responsible for Christian violence. Why should believers be entitled to a double standard?

 

[michel]

I think it does. When Muslims commit acts of violence and oppression and say it's religious conviction that makes them do so, I believe them. When Christians commit acts of violence and oppression and say it's religious conviction that makes them do so, I believe them. When Jews commit acts of violence and oppression and say it's religious conviction that makes them do so, I believe them. When Hindus commit acts of violence and oppression and say it's religious conviction that makes them do so, I believe them.

What's the alternative? To say that they don't understand their own religions? That they are outside their own religions?

Believers imagine that they can behave in any abominable manner that suits them, and then have the temerity to be offended by criticism. Cartoons are not the problem. Religious violence and religious oppression of others are the problem.

Muslims hold the entire nation of Denmark responsible for a few cartoons. Well, fair's fair: Islam is responsible for Muslim violence. Christianity is responsible for Christian violence. Why should believers be entitled to a double standard?

I guess the real answer to that is 'because we have to treat such people with kid gloves'; as per my post to Jay before yours.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

I support Prime Minister Rasmussen and Raymond Lakah on this one ...

Hang on a moment:

The row intensified when France Soir, alongside the 12 original cartoons, printed a newly created cartoon on its front page showing Buddhist, Jewish, Muslim and Christian holy figures sitting on a cloud, with the caption "Don't worry Muhammad, we've all been caricatured here".

THAT's what the cartoonist was fired for? I don't agree with that at all. Raymond Lakah had no right to fire that cartoonist.

 

[Smoke]

I guess the real answer to that is 'because we have to treat such people with kid gloves'; as per my post to Jay before yours.

So we allow violent, irrational people to set the standards for behavior throughout the world? That can't end well. The truth is, religious fundamentalism -- Muslim, Christian, or otherwise -- is evil. It is unacceptable among decent people, and it is the responsibility of decent people to speak out against it.

 

[Buttercup]

*you must spread karma around before giving it to MidnightBlue again*

 

[YmirGF]

Islam is not responsible for my ethics. Radical Islam may explain the cartoons, but it does not justify them.

Try not to beat me into a wimpering pulp with your intellect, but I really do not understand the connection in your first statement.
"Islam is not repsonsible for my ethics."
Doh... I think I just got it LOL. :banghead3

Ok, I get your drift now. Are you saying that it is unfair to draw cartoons poking fun at such so-called "sacred" institutions? The reality is that pieces like this are always based on some kind of facts... othewise they would not be amusing. It's like all stereotype have a kernal of truth to them, regardless to how puffed out of shape they get.

Sorry Jayhawker, I am already very tired of being politically correct. In my view, a true religion would chuckle and "take it on the chin", not call for retribution.

Michel's comment about the comedian is extremely valid.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Hang on a moment:

The row intensified when France Soir, alongside the 12 original cartoons, printed a newly created cartoon on its front page showing Buddhist, Jewish, Muslim and Christian holy figures sitting on a cloud, with the caption "Don't worry Muhammad, we've all been caricatured here".

THAT's what the cartoonist was fired for? I don't agree with that at all. Raymond Lakah had no right to fire that cartoonist.

Perhaps even for a couple of moments - at least long enough to note that (a) rerunning the oiginal cartoons was dismissive and incendiary, and (b) it was the editor, not the cartoonist, who was fired.

 

[Buttercup]

Sorry Jayhawker, I am already very tired of being politically correct. In my view, a true religion would chuckle and "take it on the chin", not call for retribution.

Yes, and why do radical Islamics always threaten with death? Why doesn't a warning do the same job? Would garner more respect throughout the world than death threats. People are sick and tired of hearing death threats...

 

[Mr Spinkles]

Can you imagine if Christians threatened to kidnap and kill people every time Jesus was portrayed in a humorous way? The writers of Family Guy would have to go into hiding....

The Muslims around the world who are reacting so violently to little drawings are doing themselves a great disservice.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

Perhaps even for a couple of moments - at least long enough to note that (a) rerunning the oiginal cartoons was dismissive and incendiary, and (b) it was the editor, not the cartoonist, who was fired.

I stand corrected.

I agree, he should have been fired.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

So we allow violent, irrational people to set the standards for behavior throughout the world?

What a marvelous picture of self righteous might - MidnightBlue pummeling a strawman from atop his soapbox.

 

[Buttercup]

What MidnightBlue says is how millions feel.