"Catholic League: Priests Deserve Credit for the Sex Abuse They DIDN’T Commit"

[Skwim]

"The Catholic League’s Bill Donohue has been trying ever so hard to discredit the Pennsylvania grand jury’s report documenting hundreds of examples of Catholic Church leaders sexually abusing children. He’s argued a lot of it shouldn’t even count since no one was penetrated and some victims weren’t even pre-pubescent. He’s also said sexual abuse occurs elsewhere, so the Church’s scandals aren’t really that big a deal. And that most of the abuses didn’t occur in the past few years, so everyone needs to lay off.

His latest gambit? Arguing that everyone’s in a “moral panic” over the Church even though there are a bunch of kids who weren’t abused. How come the media’s not reporting on that?!

The Catholic Church has never had a monopoly on the mistreatment of some young people, yet that is what is being promoted today. Why? To feed an anti-Catholic moral panic.

The media, by focusing exclusively on abuse of minors in Catholic institutions—and stubbornly refusing to credit the Church for reforms that have made Catholic settings today among the safest places for children—perpetuate an irrational fear that the Catholic Church poses a unique threat to the safety of children.
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Sure, hundreds of children were sexually abused over the course of decades, leaving them traumatized for life, but who have we molested lately?! Just a couple of kids. CHECKMATE, CRITICS!

Donohue thinks the Church deserves a cookie for treating children appropriately."
source​

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[Altfish]

Bill Donohue really is a case. He does the catholic church harm although he doesn't see it. He should be put out to graze.

 

[Buddha Dharma]

Is he the same guy that recently suggested that it's not wrong if no penetration takes place? I know someone recently said something like that, claiming to represent the Church. That's scary...

It's the same justification used in Iran to engage in certain actions with minors.

 

[Mindmaster]

​

Sure, hundreds of children were sexually abused over the course of decades, leaving them traumatized for life, but who have we molested lately?! Just a couple of kids. CHECKMATE, CRITICS!

Donohue thinks the Church deserves a cookie for treating children appropriately."
source​

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.​

There is an entire culture from the top of the organization for obfuscating the abuse and that's the problem. If the church response was to immediately defrock priests and other clergy upon the point where an investigation occurred and turn them into the police no one would be having this discussion. That's not what they do -- what they do is refuse to admit it, hide it from authorities, silence the victims, and move the priest somewhere where he isn't known. Then that priest gets to do it all over again...

 

[Buddha Dharma]

If the church response was to immediately defrock priests and other clergy upon the point where an investigation occurred and turn them into the police no one would be having this discussion. That's not what they do -- what they do is refuse to admit it, hide it from authorities, silence the victims, and move the priest somewhere where he isn't known. Then that priest gets to do it all over again...

Do you think this could relate to some idea of the Church leadership- that they aren't, or should not be subject to secular institutions like law enforcement and courts?

 

[Mindmaster]

Do you think this could relate to some idea of the Church leadership- that they aren't, or should not be subject to secular institutions like law enforcement and courts?

That is not for them to determine, that has already been settled in regard to civil law. Even in the Holy See criminals are turned over to the Italian authorities for justice, so why is this any different?

This is about propaganda, branding, and abusing the pubic trust.

 

[Buddha Dharma]

I was just wondering if you thought that was part of the Church's continuing cover ups, moving the Priests, around etc. Wanted your opinion on it...

 

[Mindmaster]

I was just wondering if you thought that was part of the Church's continuing cover ups, moving the Priests, around etc. Wanted your opinion on it...

The question always is: Who profits by the deception?

I think that's obvious and really doesn't have to be addressed.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I wonder how much credit I will be given for the banks that I did not rob?

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

That is not for them to determine, that has already been settled in regard to civil law. Even in the Holy See criminals are turned over to the Italian authorities for justice, so why is this any different?

This is about propaganda, branding, and abusing the pubic trust.

And if you dare to call for the Church to be dismantled like the criminal organisation it is you must be a Catholic-basher or bigot

 

[Mindmaster]

And if you dare to call for the Church to be dismantled like the criminal organisation it is you must be a Catholic-basher or bigot

Oh, I'm a Catholic basher but what is going on is beyond that. That perspective is just my take on their religious beliefs, but this is something else. It's something that any right-minded human being should hold in contempt even the Catholics themselves.

The Catholics needs to reform themselves away from the dictator in Rome, and the sooner they do that the better.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Sweet! I always felt I should get credit for the murders I don't commit.

 

[Mindmaster]

Sweet! I always felt I should get credit for the murders I don't commit.

In any court in the world what the Catholic leadership has done would be considered aiding and abetting. Moreover, in the USA it should be also be considered grounds for a RICO case. Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act - Wikipedia

I have absolutely no idea how they've avoided such charges in the past other than to buy off people like the mob did. The corruption goes straight to the Pope. (there have been lesser officials prosecuted by RICO in the past...)

 

[metis]

Not in any way as an excuse for the CC, let me remind some here that sexual abuse is not just found in the CC, nor just within religious circles. It also happened when I was growing up in my Protestant church by one of our clergy, but I doubt very much if anyone in the general public would have known this because local church events only rarely make national and international headlines.

So, now we have at least four threads that I know of on the CC with this atrocity but not a single one that I've seen here at RF on the simple fact that this issue goes well beyond the CC.

 

[Quintessence]

They have a valid point.

It is not uncommon for humans to jump on a hate mongering train. It is not uncommon for humans to take the conduct of a few individuals with a group and then decree the entire group worthy of condemnation. It's classic prejudice - something we are all more or less prone to when left unchecked. Kudos to anyone who reminds humans to pause, back up a few moments, and stop bigotry trains from leaving the station.

As much as it bothers me that humans are prone to letting the conduct of a few individuals be an excuse for a witch hunt against entire groups of people, there's another trend that equally bothers me: the tendency for groups to disown their bad apples. In fairness, groups tend to do this precisely because of the stupid bigotry trains, but two missteps just make for two tripping feet. Every group has criminals, miscreants, and those we might condemn. Own that. Don't go around saying "oh, they're not really part of my group" when that is not actually the case.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

It is not uncommon for humans to jump on a hate mongering train. It is not uncommon for humans to take the conduct of a few individuals with a group and then decree the entire group worthy of condemnation. It's classic prejudice - something we are all more or less prone to when left unchecked. Kudos to anyone who reminds humans to pause, back up a few moments, and stop bigotry trains from leaving the station.

It's not a "few individuals" but many people--including those in the upper eschalons--who have assisted those "few" in trying to cover up their crimes and allowing them into the Vatican to shield them from the consequences of the laws they broke.
Kinda of like police, in how it's not just the abusive ones who are guilty but every last one who has tried to cover abuse up, excuse abuse, and even try to help police officers who broke the law get off the hook and not face any consequences (even if they get drunk, drive their vehicle, and kill another motorist). And of course those who don't speak up about it and denounce the abuse are aiding in the abuse and allowing it to go on.

 

[pearl]

In the interest of fairness consider the number of priests accused against the total number of priests.
http://nineteensixty-four.blogspot.com/2018/08/pain-never-disappears-from-unhealed.html




There is something to this generational pattern and this finding was first uncovered in the scientific study of the abuse crisis in 2004 by researchers at the John Jay College of Criminal Justice. They noted in 2004, "The majority of men in this study were born between 1920 and 1950 and were ordained in their mid- to late-twenties." The most common decade of birth for alleged abusers was the 1930s and the most common decade of ordination was the 1960s. This profile has not changed in allegations that emerged in the 14 years that have followed—including the recent grand jury report. No new wave of abuse has emerged in the United States.

http://nineteensixty-four.blogspot.com/2018/08/pain-never-disappears-from-unhealed.html

 

[Quintessence]

It's not a "few individuals" but many people--including those in the upper eschalons--who have assisted those "few" in trying to cover up their crimes and allowing them into the Vatican to shield them from the consequences of the laws they broke.

What, would you prefer I had said "some?" Whether it is "few" or "many" is irrelevant with respect to my point. All of those terms are numerically arbitrary.

Kinda of like police, in how it's not just the abusive ones who are guilty but every last one who has tried to cover abuse up, excuse abuse, and even try to help police officers who broke the law get off the hook and not face any consequences (even if they get drunk, drive their vehicle, and kill another motorist). And of course those who don't speak up about it and denounce the abuse are aiding in the abuse and allowing it to go on.

I don't agree with this reasoning. If others want to find ways to justify bigotry and prejudice against entire groups of people - even when there are individuals in those groups that are not involved nor guilty - more power to them. It's not my thing.

 

[LuisDantas]

They have a valid point.

Do they? I don't think I am quite following you here.

It is not uncommon for humans to jump on a hate mongering train. It is not uncommon for humans to take the conduct of a few individuals with a group and then decree the entire group worthy of condemnation. It's classic prejudice - something we are all more or less prone to when left unchecked. Kudos to anyone who reminds humans to pause, back up a few moments, and stop bigotry trains from leaving the station.

Sorry, but I have to disagree. Bigotry and unfair generalizations do exist, certainly. They do not seem to connect to the situation at hand in any way, though. At least not in any way that would excuse Donohue or the RCC.

As much as it bothers me that humans are prone to letting the conduct of a few individuals be an excuse for a witch hunt against entire groups of people, there's another trend that equally bothers me: the tendency for groups to disown their bad apples. In fairness, groups tend to do this precisely because of the stupid bigotry trains, but two missteps just make for two tripping feet. Every group has criminals, miscreants, and those we might condemn. Own that. Don't go around saying "oh, they're not really part of my group" when that is not actually the case.

Now, that is indeed a fair point, and one that is not very often understood, let alone accepted.

 

[Quintessence]

Sorry, but I have to disagree. Bigotry and unfair generalizations do exist, certainly. They do not seem to connect to the situation at hand in any way, though. At least not in any way that would excuse Donohue or the RCC.

I don't think I ever implied that it does excuse the behavior of the individuals that perpetrated criminal acts. Nor does poor behavior on the part of some individuals in a group excuse bigotry and hate-mongering against that entire group. That sort of bigotry has definitely been going on since all this landed front and center in major news outlets.