Challenge: I'm willing to convert if.......

[Unfettered]

My daughter had faith. Why did Jesus heal you and not her?

Is it possible that your daughter misunderstands what it means to have faith? That is actually quite common, and arguably contributes more to disillusionment with God than any other thing.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Is it possible that your daughter misunderstands what it means to have faith? That is actually quite common, and arguably contributes more to disillusionment with God than any other thing.

Absolutely.

So Jesus would allow someone to die over a misunderstanding of what it means to have faith? Jesus will allow someone who wants to live to die over semantics?

 

[Unfettered]

So Jesus would allow someone to die over a misunderstanding of what it means to have faith?

We come to earth to die as much as we come to earth to live. They are equal in importance; neither is more important than the other. When a person dies matters little in the framework of eternity (I didn't say it doesn't matter at all), which is the framework to which Jesus spent his ministry directing us. His kingdom was "not of this world," he said, meaning mortality. Neither is the mansion he ultimately prepares for us, and promises us, found in this existence.

In light of this, if our objective is to understand under what conditions God judges to grant extended life to one while not to another, is your question the right question?

Jesus will allow someone who wants to live to die over semantics?

Faith isn't a matter of semantics; it is a matter of relationships and understanding and promises and fidelity and diligence. If you have a promise of life and it isn't honored, you're justified in being upset. If you have no promise of life, why claim you had faith and God didn't deliver?

Again, is it possible that what it actually means to faith…is not understood?

 

[SalixIncendium]

We come to earth to die as much as we come to earth to live.

Yes. Everybody dies.

They are equal in importance; neither is more important than the other. When a person dies matters little in the framework of eternity (I didn't say it doesn't matter at all), which is the framework to which Jesus spent his ministry directing us. His kingdom was "not of this world," he said, meaning mortality. Neither is the mansion he ultimately prepares for us, and promises us, found in this existence.

Doublespeak.

In light of this, if our objective is to understand under what conditions God judges to grant extended life to one while not to another, is your question the right question?

Indeed it is.

Faith isn't a matter of semantics; it is a matter of relationships and understanding and promises and fidelity and diligence. If you have a promise of life and it isn't honored, you're justified in being upset. If you have no promise of life, why claim you had faith and God didn't deliver?

Why would you assume I'm upset? I merely asked a question.

Again, is it possible that what it actually means to faith…is not understood?

Yes. So back to my initial question. Does Jesus allow people to die over semantics?

 

[Unfettered]

Doublespeak.

OK? ?

Indeed it is.

Understood. I think I've offered what I have to offer. Perhaps others will have what you're looking for.

Why would you assume I'm upset? I merely asked a question.

Using "you" was just a manner of speaking. Sloppy use of passive voice. I didn't think you, personally, were upset, and didn't intend to convey that you were.

Yes. So back to my initial question. Does Jesus allow people to die over semantics?

No, he doesn't. But some people believe that he does because they don't know him and/or don't understand faith.

 

[SalixIncendium]

No, he doesn't. But some people believe that he does because they don't know him and/or don't understand faith.

Help me to understand what my daughter's understanding lacked.

 

[Unfettered]

Help me to understand what my daughter's understanding lacked.

Can you speak adequately for your daughter? Meaning, do you know what she understands well enough to represent her here?

EDIT: No need to involve your daughter.

Faith is a promise of something real whose realization is in the future (ie, the thing promised is unseen at the time the promise is given). And when the giver of the promise is 100% capable of making good on the promise, and 100% trustworthy to do so—and when the receiver of the promise knows this—that newly born faith is also the evidence that the thing will be realized. I can offer an example or two if that would help illustrate this in a practical way.

Applying this truth to your daughter, and admitting assumptions I cannot account for without more information, if she sought healing and did not receive it and didn't understand why she didn't, her understanding was lacking in that she didn't realize that without a promise of healing, she was not exercising—she could not exercise—faith to be healed.

Again, admitting I am ignorant of everything other than the scant info you've provided, I don't doubt her trust in God (her "faith" in God, if you will). She just doesn't know him well enough to understand how he works vs how he doesn't. And so her petition was not answered in the way she sought (to the extent that I understand what she sought).

 

[Trailblazer]

Yes. Everybody dies.

Not only everybody but every living thing dies eventually.
Since living things are the only things that matter to me, everything that matters to me dies.

Jesus is not responsible for death, God is, so what does that say about God?
Nothing I want to say here.

 

[Unfettered]

Not only everybody but every living thing dies eventually.
Since living things are the only things that matter to me, everything that matters to me dies.

Jesus is not responsible for death, God is, so what does that say about God?
Nothing I want to say here.

If one believes that joy and fulfillment are only, ever to be found in mortality, and that absent God one would live forever, then if God is responsible for death, that person would conclude that God is bad.

For clarity, I understand God and Jesus to be one in purpose, so if I'm speaking of one's purpose and action (generally), I'm speaking of those of the other, as well.

 

[Trailblazer]

If one believes that joy and fulfillment are only, ever to be found in mortality, and that absent God one would live forever, then if God is responsible for death, that person would conclude that God is bad.

I do not believe that joy and fulfillment are only, ever to be found in mortality.
In fact, I believe that true joy is only to be found after this mortal life comes to an end.

I also do not believe that absent God one would live forever. Whether God exists or not the physical body is mortal so it cannot 'live forever.'

But I can still believe that God is bad for creating a mortal body that leaves people to grieve when their loved ones die.

For clarity, I understand God and Jesus to be one in purpose, so if I'm speaking of one's purpose and action (generally), I'm speaking of those of the other, as well.

I also believe that Jesus and God are one in purpose.

 

[Unfettered]

I do not believe that joy and fulfillment are only, ever to be found in mortality.
In fact, I believe that true joy is only to be found after this mortal life comes to an end.

I also do not believe that absent God one would live forever. Whether God exists or not the physical body is mortal so it cannot 'live forever.'

But I can still believe that God is bad for creating a mortal body that leaves people to grieve when their loved ones die.

I hope you didn't think I was suggesting that you couldn't believe that.

I also believe that Jesus and God are one in purpose.

 

[Trailblazer]

I hope you didn't think I was suggesting that you couldn't believe that.

No, I did not think you were suggesting that.
I don't like thinking God is bad because I believe that God is good, so it causes a lot of cognitive dissonance.
Sometimes I just don't know what to think!

 

[Unfettered]

No, I did not think you were suggesting that.
I don't like thinking God is bad because I believe that God is good, so it causes a lot of cognitive dissonance.
Sometimes I just don't know what to think!

I understand. I'll say he's good, then.

 

[Trailblazer]

I understand. I'll say he's good, then.

That makes sense. Imagine that, a bad God. That makes no sense.
That is something atheists say because they have no way to know God.

 

[Unfettered]

That makes sense. Imagine that, a bad God. That makes no sense.

It doesn't to me.

That is something atheists say because they have no way to know God.

Well, honest atheists (agnostics) don't have an opinion about the character of the god they don't know exists (or not).

 

[Trailblazer]

Well, honest atheists (agnostics) don't have an opinion about the character of the god they don't know exists (or not).

Yes, I have also found that to be the case.

 

[stvdv]

Do not be afraid

Do not be afraid to live in the moment
Focus on the past, won't give you what you ask

 

[YoursTrue]

Or, you might reflect on why someone would want as a convert a person who would pose such a silly ask.

Which makes me wonder -- if all religions claiming miracles are from the one true God even though the religious teachings can be vastly different, it's kind of like pick and choose to an extent. @Madsaac

 

[YoursTrue]

You think very little of humanity. I don't share your dismal outlook.

You probably saw the news about the murders of many people at a concert in Russia, right?

 

[Madsaac]

You know that you cannot prove anything in realms other than maths correct?
However, let me bite. In Hinduism and Buddhism, reincarnation is a consistent claim. Here is reference to current scientific evidence of reincarnation with past life memories. Does this work for you?
The Science of Reincarnation: UVA psychiatrist Jim Tucker investigates children’s claims of past lives

Yes, you can't prove anything apart from maths but I'm willing to be 50% convinced.

No, but thanks for the effort