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Seems, I know not seems.
Did I say otherwise?
So I, as an American citizen who is Jewish am a political convert in the U.S. because I live by its laws?
After 200 or so years, some did in some ways. Some didn't and in some ways none did.
See, that is much better.
You implied it by asking for classical sources and then suggesting that they needn't be rabbinical.
Yes. Don't worry though, I don't like it either.
but then they were not all gerim, unless they were by virtue of their being held to Egyptian law not religion.
No, you inferred it though I have no idea how. I asked for classical sources backing up your claim (post 83), you confirmed that request in post 84, I reconfirmed in 86 and then suddenly you ask about Rabbinic sources as distinguished from classical source (though, no they are not identical). I'm not sure what the relevance is as I have yet to see any sources that explain the word ger in that verse (as I specified in post 86) means "stranger."
It isn't a question of liking. It is a label of which I have never heard and which doesn't seem to have any linguistic utility. Everyone, according to that definition, "someone who lived in a land by that lands laws", is a "political convert."
Another strange leap to make. One could say that at a certain point, and for a few different reasons, not all were gerim. But so what? Not all left Egypt. The question has to do with those who would have been included in the verse in Leviticus who, because they did leave Egypt, were still gerim at that point. And so?
Yes because you wanted sources for that verse as opposed to Genesis versus of ger.
I have no ideas why practicing orthodox Jews would want to consider us strangers in a strange land either. But I guess it fits the convert reading..
Nope, only Jewish people in a non Jewish land, or non Jewish people in a Jewish land. And regular converts to the religion.
And of the ones that left Egypt they all abandoned God and took up Egyptian gods in Egypt? Or they took up Egyptian laws and kept their God?
I never mentioned Genesis. You did. Therefore I never wanted sources for anything as opposed to Genesis.
Since I don't know whom you mean by "us" or why you think of yourself as the object of a verse in Leviticus, I can't comment.
Then your definition is fatally flawed. Your wrote "someone who lived in a land by that lands laws" which says nothing about religion. If you intend to change your definition, please say so.
Some, some and some. I get the sense you are looking for some magical combination in order to make some argument about your interpretation of the word "ger". You are trying too hard to justify something. If you don't already have all this information from your studies, piecing it together from these questions won't do you much good.
No change it would also include religious converts. It simply means conversation or newcomer therefore it is malleable and contextual.
You responded to a number of points with a single statement and one that makes little sense. "What" would include religious converts? What means "conversation or newcomer"?
Sorry, my phone does auto fill. I have to stop it from writing words and sometimes I forget. Ger means convert or newcomer. And ger would include any convert or newcomer whether that was a convert to a religion or convert to a nation.
Ger has a variety of meanings depending on context and use. I can provide sources that explain its use as convert, and in other places, as something different from that. Judaism has parsed its various uses and has traditional understandings about what it means. Deciding what it means based on a personal and contemporary sense has no effect on Judaism.
You want me to provide classical sources that ger means convert now? Rosends already did that.
I thought we were discussing the verse where it meant convert. What are you trying to say? You can provide classical sources that show that convert can only refer to convert in the religious sense in this verse? Please, by all means do that.
I have shown sources that demonstrate that in this verse (in this part of the verse, actually) it means religious convert. I also provided references to sources that it means something else in other uses. Having thusly substantiated the claim that there is a traditional Judaic belief about the meaning and application of ger in that verse, it is up to you to show that your understanding of the verse bears any relationship to Judaic thinking.
I just saw sources that suggested it meant convert and that convert included religious converts. I saw nothing that excluded other converts. More to the point, the text itself prevents one from concluding that it only means religious convert.
The text then also doesn't exclude converts into the human race from the planet Mercury I guess.
That is great. But does this then mean that the all Hebrew people had given up God to study Egyptian gods in Egypt?
Um, no, because that text isn't referring to any Hebrew people. I'll explain.
I didn't watch the video so I don't know about which specific people you are trying to apply this verse to. But I want to address the verse itself.
It is interesting seeing that verse without the parallel terms. "Since the Jewish people were themselves strangers(gerim), they are not in a position to demean a convert (ger) because he is a stranger in their midst." B.M. 59b. Because the Jewish people were one type of A they should not demean another type of A. Yet you would have me believe that this does not apply when the Jewish people were dealing with someone of the same type of A that they were. You have not shown that any Rabbinical reading excludes recognizing refugees as converts or proselytes. In other words, you have yet to show a source that doesn't allow the user to assume this is true of geopolitical proselytes or that we should assume proselyte or convert to only extend to religious converts.
