Challenging Judaism's politics

[Lyndon]

absolute rubbish!!! unbelievable!! The only reason the Muslim response to Jews has changed is because of years of abuse from Israelis.

 

[Revoltingest]

I have heard as much. But that is hardly an explanation.

Seems like an explanation to me.
But then I'm not judging it as valid or invalid.
It just makes the animosity understandable.

 

[Revoltingest]

Israel and the Jewish People tend to be much superior in their treatment of Muslims, and it shows - despite all the very significant atrocities of war.

It could appear as such because Isreal is top dog in the region.
The oppressor often looks more organized & civilized than the
ones under the thumb of, & resisting oppression.

But I think there's dysfunction in conferring moral or intellectual
superiority on one or the other. The solution lies in their seeing
each other as equals, & finding enuf common ground to resolve
the conflict thru compromise & accommodation.
But if each wallows in the victim aspect of history, they're doomed.

 

[LuisDantas]

absolute rubbish!!! unbelievable!! The only reason the Muslim response to Jews has changed is because of years of abuse from Israelis.

Has it changed? Are you thinking of any specific timeframe?

 

[LuisDantas]

It could appear as such because Isreal is top dog in the region.
The oppressor often looks more organized & civilized than the
ones under the thumb of, & resisting oppression.

Yes, it could. I no longer think that to be very likely, though. There is just too much evidence pointing against that.

But I think there's dysfunction in conferring moral or intellectual
superiority on one or the other.

In practice, that is however unavoidable, even necessary.

The solution lies in their seeing
each other as equals, & finding enuf common ground to resolve
the conflict thru compromise & accommodation.
But if each wallows in the victim aspect of history, they're doomed.

Quite so.

 

[joe1776]

I could. And in nearly all cases the answer would be "they are not, and have rarely if ever been".

Do you mean that you don't acknowledge the many religious conflicts throughout history or you think that Jews and Muslims have been exceptions?

 

[Revoltingest]

In practice, that is however unavoidable, even necessary.

Necessary, eh?
Let's hope they all find peaceful coexistence to be a better necessity.

 

[rosends]

So Judaism has no influence in politics? Then what do you explain with the links?

Judaism does have an influence but the policies you discuss are political not religious and when religion has an influence it is in the presentation of Judaism in all its complexity, not a literalist application of a selected verse.

 

[LuisDantas]

Do you mean that you don't acknowledge the many religious conflicts throughout history or you think that Jews and Muslims have been exceptions?

I think that Muslims, specifically, are very much an exception.

Islaam, unlike what I usually consider to be a religion, is to a very large extent about declaring how much room to give to non-Muslims, to the point of specifically forbidding having certain kinds of alliance with them.

Religious conflict exists without Muslim involvement. But it is usually avoidable, and it is rarely if ever an actual point of of faith.

 

[LuisDantas]

Necessary, eh?
Let's hope they all find peaceful coexistence to be a better necessity.

It is a bit surprising to see the proponent of a strong military say that.

 

[Revoltingest]

It is a bit surprising to see the proponent of a strong military say that.

That's because you aren't accustomed to seeing someone
proposing a strong military solely for national defense.

I might be the only draft dodger you know, who went to
work in the weapons industry. But it makes sense to me.

 

[LuisDantas]

That's because you aren't accustomed to seeing someone
proposing a strong military solely for national defense.

Fair enough. I am indeed not used to that idea.

Any ideas on how to avoid arms races, mistrust and resentment coming with that strong military?

Or how to curb the political and economical influence of that military?

I might be the only draft dodger you know, who went to
work in the weapons industry.

I suspect that you are not. It is my understanding that a whole lot of people work for the military in some direct or indirect capacity.

 

[Revoltingest]

Fair enough. I am indeed not used to that idea.

Any ideas on how to avoid arms races, mistrust and resentment coming with that strong military?

Or how to curb the political and economical influence of that military?

I have no plan that will work.
But I'll offer this proposal for all governments.....
- Actively seek peace with each other, instead of justifying grudges & fears.
- Be civil & thoughtful.
- Don't try to fix other countries militarily.
- Don't conquer each other.
- Never say, "Those people cannot be reasoned with.".

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Democracy, like its U.S. Ally, Israel still finds its fuel through its religious principles. I think the Leviticus verse is quite appropriate in relation to what is going on.

You certainly have the right to think all manner of things, but what, precisely, do you wish to debate?

 

[Akivah]

Democracy, like its U.S. Ally, Israel still finds its fuel through its religious principles. I think the Leviticus verse is quite appropriate in relation to what is going on.

If Israel treats them so badly, why do they keep coming to Israel?

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Why are Muslims and Jews enemies? You could ask the same question about any two religious groups going back thousands of years.

I think it's all about the need to feel superior to others. My group is superior to yours! I doubt that it has anything to do with religion. I think religion, national pride and racial pride are just excuses. Any difference will do.

This thread isn't about Muslims and Jews

 

[Sakeenah]

Meanwhile, I am still waiting for some clarification on why Muslims are so consistently inimical to Israel.

This should explain it :

Israel: 50 Years of Occupation Abuses

 

[Epic Beard Man]

You certainly have the right to think all manner of things, but what, precisely, do you wish to debate?

For me why aren't the observant inhabitants furious about this? I know Bibi has his hands tied somewhat, but I also believe the right wing parties in Israel are pressuring him. My thing is that the people (not just so much the government) seem to be in line with getting rid of migrants or those who are trying to come back whom are Jews as I've presented. My thing is how is the lady in the video regarding wanting her land to be Jewish at 2:18. Why must the land be completely Jewish? with over 7 billion people on the planet and an increasingly small number of land to live why take on the same mentality her parents with through in Germany?

 

[Epic Beard Man]

If Israel treats them so badly, why do they keep coming to Israel?

I'm not a migrant, nor a refugee...The videos speak for themselves. I mean you can say the same about Mexicans and Central Americans.....Or Chinese, or any other person looking to make a life here in the states.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

I could. And in nearly all cases the answer would be "they are not, and have rarely if ever been".

Therefore, my question remains. And you will notice that I acknowledge its asymmetry, which is IMO very significant in and of itself.

Muslims very rarely have much if any sympathy for Israel and/or the Jewish People (except to the extent that they may see them as potential "reverts", perhaps).

Israel and the Jewish People tend to be much superior in their treatment of Muslims, and it shows - despite all the very significant atrocities of war.

Why are you making this about Muslims and Jews?