Child rapist/killer used as guinea pig for first time new drug combo for his execution.

[Magic Man]

You have not explained how killing them is "revenge", yet locking them up for life is not revenge.

In fact, the only difference I can see is the death.
What makes death an act of revenge as opposed to "locking them up for life"?

I've covered this. They are a danger to society. We have to remove them from society to keep it safe. Locking them up accomplishes that. Anything harsher than locking them up is unnecessary, meaning capital punishment is unnecessary. That means you're taking a further step just because you think it's what they deserve. That's revenge.

 

[McBell]

I've covered this. They are a danger to society. We have to remove them from society to keep it safe. Locking them up accomplishes that. Anything harsher than locking them up is unnecessary, meaning capital punishment is unnecessary. That means you're taking a further step just because you think it's what they deserve. That's revenge.

Ah, it boils down to your personal opinion of "unnecessary".

thank you for your patience.

 

[Magic Man]

Ah, it boils down to your personal opinion of "unnecessary".

thank you for your patience.

Nope, it boils down to what's necessary in reality. Although you're welcome to try to prove that locking up a criminal for life doesn't accomplish the goal of keeping society safe from them.

 

[BSM1]

I already explained that part. They are a danger to society. We have to somehow remove them from society for the safety of everyone else.

And execution guarantees this without the danger of this sick animal escaping or being granted parole.

 

[Poisonshady313]

It's not arbitrary. Locking up someone who is a danger to society accomplishes the goal of keeping society safe from them, which is all that's necessary. Going beyond what is necessary to give them a "punishment they deserve" would then be revenge.

A life sentence is a death sentence. The method of execution: time. But not only are you punishing the criminal, you're punishing society by making law abiding taxpayers pay to house and feed this individual 3 meals a day while they're struggling to pay rent and feed their families.

As for locking someone up being enough... it's not. There are too many stories of people being paroled when they should not be, having their sentence commuted when it should not be, escaping, getting back on the street and killing again. Or conspiring with someone who's not locked up for life to commit murder. Or murdering inmates who were serving a few years for something minor.

When you commit a capital crime, you ought to receive capital punishment. It's that simple.

 

[McBell]

Nope, it boils down to what's necessary in reality. Although you're welcome to try to prove that locking up a criminal for life doesn't accomplish the goal of keeping society safe from them.

Really?
You really need me to give you a list of escaped murders who killed again after "being locked up for life"?

You really need me to present a list of convicted killers who, due to one error or another, were released and killed again?

And you are making claims of "reality"?

 

[Iti oj]

Nope, it boils down to what's necessary in reality. Although you're welcome to try to prove that locking up a criminal for life doesn't accomplish the goal of keeping society safe from them.

and it is neccasary that we do testing for medical, scientific and cosmetic research.

 

[Magic Man]

And execution guarantees this without the danger of this sick animal escaping or being granted parole.

Sure, but that risk is small enough that it's not significant for these purposes.

 

[Magic Man]

A life sentence is a death sentence. The method of execution: time. But not only are you punishing the criminal, you're punishing society by making law abiding taxpayers pay to house and feed this individual 3 meals a day while they're struggling to pay rent and feed their families.

As for locking someone up being enough... it's not. There are too many stories of people being paroled when they should not be, having their sentence commuted when it should not be, escaping, getting back on the street and killing again. Or conspiring with someone who's not locked up for life to commit murder. Or murdering inmates who were serving a few years for something minor.

When you commit a capital crime, you ought to receive capital punishment. It's that simple.

That's fine, as long as you realize that capital punishment is nothing more than revenge. I don't think the government should be in the business of revenge.

 

[Poisonshady313]

That's fine, as long as you realize that capital punishment is nothing more than revenge. I don't think the government should be in the business of revenge.

According to the strict definition of the word revenge, then sure. Captial punishment is revenge. But so is a life sentence. So is a five year sentence. So is a speeding ticket.

Revenge: retaliation for injuries or wrongs

The government certainly is in the business of holding people who break the law accountable.

If you can't do the time, don't do the crime.

 

[McBell]

That's fine, as long as you realize that capital punishment is nothing more than revenge. I don't think the government should be in the business of revenge.

 

[Penumbra]

I view life in prison as a worse fate than just facing death. Which one is worse seems to be a matter of opinion, though the more popular opinion seems to be that life in prison isn't as bad as death, and that therefore death is higher in the hierarchy of terribleness.

So if people are assuming that death is "revenge" and life in prison is not, then they're imposing their hierarchy of which one is worse onto someone else by assuming that the other person is working with the same hierarchy that they are. Someone who views life in prison as being worse than death, could say the same thing in reverse, but it would be unwise to make the same mistake of not understanding the intentions of the other.

 

[Magic Man]

Really?
You really need me to give you a list of escaped murders who killed again after "being locked up for life"?

You really need me to present a list of convicted killers who, due to one error or another, were released and killed again?

And you are making claims of "reality"?

You're welcome to provide such things, but it won't discount my argument. If we have to kill people to keep society safe, we'd have to expand the death penalty greatly. The answer to this complaint is not to kill people, but instead to fix the system so that this kind of thing doesn't happen. If someone is actually locked up for life, they aren't a danger to society.

 

[Magic Man]

According to the strict definition of the word revenge, then sure. Captial punishment is revenge.

Cool, that's all I'm saying.

But so is a life sentence. So is a five year sentence. So is a speeding ticket.

Nope, those are punishments to achieve a reasonable goal. Keeping someone in jail to protect society is necessary. Keeping them in jail long enough to hopefully learn a lesson is necessary. Giving out penalties for reckless driving works towards the goal of making the roads safer. They're not measures taken just to give someone a punishment equal to their crime, unlike the death penalty.

The government certainly is in the business of holding people who break the law accountable.

If you can't do the time, don't do the crime.

Indeed. I'm glad we're agreed that the death penalty is simply revenge, but the government has to use other methods that aren't simply revenge to keep order.

 

[Magic Man]

I view life in prison as a worse fate than just facing death. Which one is worse seems to be a matter of opinion, though the more popular opinion seems to be that life in prison isn't as bad as death, and that therefore death is higher in the hierarchy of terribleness.

So if people are assuming that death is "revenge" and life in prison is not, then they're imposing their hierarchy of which one is worse onto someone else by assuming that the other person is working with the same hierarchy that they are. Someone who views life in prison as being worse than death, could say the same thing in reverse, but it would be unwise to make the same mistake of not understanding the intentions of the other.

Death is pretty much the worst punishment there can be. I know you say right now that you'd rather death than life in prison, but faced with the situation in reality, I doubt you'd choose death. With life in prison, you still get to experience life and you still have the hope of being free some day.

 

[McBell]

You're welcome to provide such things, but it won't discount my argument. If we have to kill people to keep society safe, we'd have to expand the death penalty greatly. The answer to this complaint is not to kill people, but instead to fix the system so that this kind of thing doesn't happen. If someone is actually locked up for life, they aren't a danger to society.

You talk to about reality then throw reality out the window to push your "revenge" agenda?

 

[McBell]

Death is pretty much the worst punishment there can be. I know you say right now that you'd rather death than life in prison, but faced with the situation in reality, I doubt you'd choose death. With life in prison, you still get to experience life and you still have the hope of being free some day.

Wow.
You really think you know better than him what he feels is a worse punishment?

Do you even need the rest of us in this thread?
I mean, if you are going to start dictating to everyone what they think and feel.....

 

[Magic Man]

You talk to about reality then throw reality out the window to push your "revenge" agenda?

This would make sense, if it had anything to do with anything I've said.

 

[Magic Man]

Wow.
You really think you know better than him what he feels is a worse punishment?

I think she's overstating her feelings. People often do that.

Do you even need the rest of us in this thread?
I mean, if you are going to start dictating to everyone what they think and feel.....

You're welcome to present a coherent argument (for the first time), or you can continue with this nonsense.

 

[Aquitaine]

With life in prison, you still get to experience life and you still have the hope of being free some day.

Assuming you're guilty, then life in prison should mean you do not have the hope of being free some day. That's the problem at least in the UK; people are being given "life sentences" which end up just being 13 years or so.

For the record, depending on the methods of execution available, I would definitely choose death, or rather - a quicker death since an actual life sentence is basically a slow death sentence.