Children separated from illegal parents

[Epic Beard Man]

 

[fantome profane]

There is also more to it than merely claiming asylums. One must actually prove they are in danger.

And are they given a chance to prove they are in danger before their children are taken away from them? Do they get to see a judge? Is there a hearing?

 

[Subduction Zone]

And are they given a chance to prove they are in danger before their children are taken away from them? Do they get to see a judge? Is there a hearing?

What? Don't you know the new paradigm? Guilty until proven innocent.

 

[Shad]

And are they given a chance to prove they are in danger before their children are taken away from them?

The issue is not a chance but the fact that the system is backlogged. So either someone is released on bond or detained until the system can process their case. Considering there are millions of illegal immigrants the bond system is questionable. By law the government only has 20 days before they must house children if detention is chosen. More so the parents have no income, no savings and no legal way to get a job (backlogged system again) so there is reasonable doubt the parents can provide for their children anyways.

Do they get to see a judge?

As part of the asylum process yes. Again the system is backlogged.

Is there a hearing?

Yes but again the system is backlogged.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Crossing the border outside border crossings.

Is that a law?

Detention in general is part of the legal policy since 99 anyways.

It might be, but that wasn't what I asked.

 

[Shad]

Is that a law?It might be, but that wasn't what I asked.

Yes detention is legal due to anti-terrorism laws. It seems silly that such a law can be applied to asylum seekers but it's scope is so wide even citizens can be detained due to lack of identification. It is that law which has existed since 99.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Yes detention is legal due to anti-terrorism laws. It seems silly that such a law can be applied to asylum seekers but it's scope is so wide even citizens can be detained due to lack of identification. It is that law which has existed since 99.

Could you specify the law? Is there an actual law that says any one crossing the border may be treated as a terrorist?

I mean, I'll believe you if you say there is and cite the law, I genuinely don't know.

 

[SkepticThinker]

That is so pathetically calloused especially coming from a group like we do that experienced so many attacks, including the Holocaust. It is is so utterly pathetic that you don't stand for those trying to escape persecution and death who are being put into American "concentration camps"-- and let's not kid ourselves as that's what they are. And Trump & Co are using the tactic of separating children from their families, much like the NAZI's did.

As I posted to you on another thread, a half-century ago Jews in Europe ran to other countries to try and escape persecution, so was that wrong for them? Should they have just waited to get slaughtered as so many did as they waited for "the proper channels", Shaul? Or is it that Hispanics fall into a different category than we do because they're not us?

Your post makes me sick to my stomach for it's even a most basic lack of empathy for others who are being persecuted and then treated like criminals when they get here by this administration that you now blindly support. So pathetic.

This. ^^^^^^^ So much this.

 

[Shad]

Could you specify the law? Is there an actual law that says any one crossing the border may be treated as a terrorist?

Anti-terrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act (96), Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act (96), Immigration and Nationality Act (65). I was off by 3 years for the former two.

While it does not claim they are terrorists these laws enable the government to treat anyone under even the slightest of suspicion under nation security clauses. Identification being the primary cause of detention. Confirmation is crippled, simply put. It has obviously been used well outside any reasonable standard and there is no direct oversight of those decisions. More so those laws empower even the lowest level of state and ICE staff to make that a determination such as a border agent. Appeals are done through a secondary system thus bureaucratic red tape natural to different branches of government communication. At times the process is so slow that appeals are too late as deportation and/or detention have already been decided outside a court.

Since the OKC bombing the government has passed a number of laws that would be considered outrageous if seen in the news more. The detention issue highlights these problems but places too much blame on Trump rather than every Dem's and Rep's knee-jerk reaction to terrorism. 9/11 just provide another rational to create laws which abuse the crippling issues with due process and 14A

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Anti-terrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act (96), Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act (96), Immigration and Nationality Act (65). I was off by 3 years for the former two.

While it does not claim they are terrorists these laws enable the government to treat anyone under even the slightest of suspicion under nation security clauses. Identification being the primary cause of detention. Confirmation is crippled, simply put. It has obviously been uses well outside any reasonable standard and there is no direct oversight of those decisions. More so those laws empower even the lowest level of state and ICE staff to make that a determination such as a border agent. Appeals are done through a secondary system thus bureaucratic red tape nature to different branches of government communication. At times the process is so slow that appeals are too late as deportation and/or detention has already been decided outside a court.

Thanks. So is that the law actually being used in this case? I mean, is ICE actually saying "we suspect these are terrorists"?

 

[Willamena]

I see a lot of talk about how evil Trump is for separating children from families when kicking illegal immigrants out of the country. It kind of baffles me. Here an individual who committed a crime is being punished for it and the child remains free of their sin. Which would you prefer, sending the kids back too? I'm one who agrees that any good intentioned person should be able to get citizenship quickly, but a crime is a crime is it not? It's illegal immigration. I think that not punishing the children is wonderful.

The more sane humane thing to do would be to work with the patron countries to make entrance to the United States easier and more controlled. It would mean less strain on the court system and detention facilities, and far less overall cost at taxpayer expense. Plus, you'd be getting new Americans instead of illegal migrants.

 

[Shad]

Thanks. So is that the law actually being used in this case? I mean, is ICE actually saying "we suspect these are terrorists"?

The strictest interpretation and enforcement is being used. ICE is using "unknown persons" as the grounding for detention outside those being caught for entry and visa violations. Simply put the government is stating that an individual can not prove who they are and/or they are in danger in short order thus detention or deportation are the only options until a court hearing and/or access to legal advice. Bonds have shifted to those that can meet legal requirements like those on valid visas, resident status and embassy claims. Foot travel, smuggling, border crossings and claims after the fact are the problem as people are ignorant of the laws thus have no idea what they are doing.

*Sponsor programs are also being ignored by it an individual sponsor, group, church, relatives, etc. I forgot about that option.

 

[Shaul]

Keeping these innocent children in a separate facility is safer for them than putting them into the same facilities along with adult detainees whose population includes criminals of all sorts, including rapists and murders.

 

[Shaul]

A detainee parent could request voluntary return and be reunited with their children promptly in their country of origin at any time. In other words, they choose the separation for a chance to stay.

 

[tytlyf]

Keeping these innocent children in a separate facility is safer for them than putting them into the same facilities along with adult detainees whose population includes criminals of all sorts, including rapists and murders.

Riiight...just make it up why don't you?

 

[metis]

Keeping these innocent children in a separate facility is safer for them than putting them into the same facilities along with adult detainees whose population includes criminals of all sorts, including rapists and murders.

Keeping them with their families, which was done in both the Bush and Obama administrations, would be far more humane and less NAZI-esque.

If your children had been removed from you for the current average of 57 days, would you be saying the same thing, Shaul? We have one child brought here in Michigan that has been removed for four months as his father was deported to Nicaragua. How about if that was done with one of your children, Shaul?

 

[fantome profane]

A detainee parent could request voluntary return and be reunited with their children promptly in their country of origin at any time. In other words, they choose the separation for a chance to stay.

Do you have any evidence of this?

 

[metis]

A detainee parent could request voluntary return and be reunited with their children promptly in their country of origin at any time. In other words, they choose the separation for a chance to stay.

So, you have no sympathy for refugees leaving dangerous countries like so many of our ancestors did over a half century ago, Shaul? How does that fit into Torah's standards":

Not to stand by idly when a human life is in danger (Lev. 19:16)

"To love the stranger" (Deut. 10:19)

"And don’t oppress the stranger nor pressure him, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt." (Exodus 22:20)

"Don’t pressure the stranger; and you know the feelings of a stranger, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt. (Exodus 23:9)"

"Don’t turn in a slave to his master, when he flees to you from his master. Let him dwell with you in your midst, in the place he chooses in one of your gates as suits him; don’t oppress him." (Deuteronomy 23:16)

 

[Faithofchristian]

How do you know the people coming over the border 'illegally' know the laws of America?

A good indication, would be, upon approaching a fence or border wall.
That means ( No Trespassing )

Let's for say, That someone's out and they come upon a fence and the posted sign does say ( No Trespassing, Trespassers will be prosecuted ) So does the person go over the fence or go to the people first to get permission to come over the fence on to their land ?

Now if they take upon themselves to go over the fence, Now are they entering unlawfully or do they have free will to do as they want regardless of the fence and the posted sign
( No Trespassing, Trespssers will be
prosecuted )

 

[Estro Felino]

A detainee parent could request voluntary return and be reunited with their children promptly in their country of origin at any time. In other words, they choose the separation for a chance to stay.

Which implies it's probable they would like to use their children as human shields... I think separation is used as deterrent to discourage this squalid tactic.
As I said , imho they don't deserve to be parents.

At the same time..I think that these children should be given back to their parents, if they decide to leave.