Christening or water baptism is it biblical?

[miss interpret]

what is the difference if any?

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

In the Bible, John the Baptist baptised Jesus by immersion, a jewish practise. The Bible is not a text book on early Christian practices, and it seems there were other options.
If you read the Didache,
The rules state that baptism should be by immersion but is insufficient water is available it may be poured.
The Didache is the earliest training guide for new Christians.

 

[miss interpret]

In the Bible, John the Baptist baptised Jesus by immersion, a jewish practise. The Bible is not a text book on early Christian practices, and it seems there were other options.
If you read the Didache,
The rules state that baptism should be by immersion but is insufficient water is available it may be poured.
The Didache is the earliest training guide for new Christians.

I was told that christening children was adopted by the catholic church to keep up attendance and numbers in the church.I believe water baptism is for people old enough to be responsible for their own actions and is biblical.

 

[Kathryn]

I was told that christening children was adopted by the catholic church to keep up attendance and numbers in the church.I believe water baptism is for people old enough to be responsible for their own actions and is biblical.

Entire families, including infants, children, and servants, were baptised in the New Testament.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Catholic and other trinitarian churches baptise in the name of the Father Son and Holy spirit.
That was certainly not the case during the early years of Christianity, before every thing was formalised under Roman authority.

 

[sojourner]

I was told that christening children was adopted by the catholic church to keep up attendance and numbers in the church.I believe water baptism is for people old enough to be responsible for their own actions and is biblical.

So is the baptism of whole families.

 

[Kathryn]

So is the baptism of whole families.

Whole families were baptised in the early church - and in the New Testament. In fact, whole households were baptised.

 

[Scott1]

I was told that christening children was adopted by the catholic church to keep up attendance and numbers in the church.I believe water baptism is for people old enough to be responsible for their own actions and is biblical.

Not sure where you got that...

Some Catholic churches still baptize by full immersion (my daughter was baptized this way) but most don't have the font to do this --- but the intent is the important thing.

 

[miss interpret]

Entire families, including infants, children, and servants, were baptised in the New Testament.

could you please quote the scripture about infants and children being baptised please.

 

[Kathryn]

could you please quote the scripture about infants and children being baptised please.

Let's lay some groundwork first.

First of all, I believe that baptism is the NT "version" if you will of circumcision. Circumcision was done on infants at the age of 8 days, as well as converts to the Jewish faith. Of course, 8 day old infants could not have made the decision themselves to be a practicing, believing Jew - their parents, who were in charge of their upbringing, made the decision to have them circumcised.

Col 2:

11 In him you were also circumcised with a circumcision not performed by human hands. Your whole self ruled by the flesh was put off when you were circumcised by[c] Christ, 12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead.

Romans 2:

37 When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?”

38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.”

"Now they were bringing even infants to him that he might touch them; and when the disciples saw it, they rebuked them. But Jesus called them to him, saying, ‘Let the children come to me, and do not hinder them; for to such belongs the kingdom of God’" (Luke 18:15–16)

These infants were not asking Jesus to touch them, or seeking Him out - their parents were bringing them to Jesus.

When the NT events were unfolding, there was no such thing as a person being born into a Christian family - Christianity was too new, so we have accounts of CONVERTS. And their families and households.

In Acts 16 we read of Lydia accepting Christ and she and her household being baptised. Since households were multigenerational in that day and age, it's logical to assume that her household contained children and probably infants as well. It's just as logical to assume that as to assume that everyone in the household was old enough to accept the teachings of Jesus and choose baptism - in other words, either scenario adds more to the scene than is discussed in the biblical account specifically.

Acts 16:

14 One of those listening was a woman from the city of Thyatira named Lydia, a dealer in purple cloth. She was a worshiper of God. The Lord opened her heart to respond to Paul’s message. 15 When she and the members of her household were baptized, she invited us to her home.

Further in Acts 16 we have the account of the jailer:

29 The jailer called for lights, rushed in and fell trembling before Paul and Silas. 30 He then brought them out and asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”

31 They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.” 32 Then they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all the others in his house. 33 At that hour of the night the jailer took them and washed their wounds; then immediately he and all his household were baptized.

And in his greetings to the Corinthians, Paul recalled that, "I did baptize also the household of Stephanas" (1 Cor. 1:16).

 

[Scott1]

I have a few:
Acts 10:47-48 - Peter baptized the entire house of Cornelius, which generally included infants and young children. There is not one word in Scripture about baptism being limited to adults.

Acts 16:15 - Paul baptized Lydia and her entire household. The word "household" comes from the Greek word "oikos" which is a household that includes infants and children.

Acts 16:15 - further, Paul baptizes the household based on Lydia's faith, not the faith of the members of the household. This demonstrates that parents can present their children for baptism based on the parents' faith, not the children's faith.

Welcome to Scripture Catholic - Providing Scriptural Evidence for the Teachings of the Catholic Faith

 

[ChristineES]

I don't the exact verses or details, but some Messianic Jews I listened to said that is was a Jewish practice- this was about 30 years ago I heard this.

 

[Kathryn]

Baptism predates Christianity and is also common in other religions.

 

[miss interpret]

I have a few:
Acts 10:47-48 - Peter baptized the entire house of Cornelius, which generally included infants and young children. There is not one word in Scripture about baptism being limited to adults.

Acts 16:15 - Paul baptized Lydia and her entire household. The word "household" comes from the Greek word "oikos" which is a household that includes infants and children.

Acts 16:15 - further, Paul baptizes the household based on Lydia's faith, not the faith of the members of the household. This demonstrates that parents can present their children for baptism based on the parents' faith, not the children's faith.

Welcome to Scripture Catholic - Providing Scriptural Evidence for the Teachings of the Catholic Faith

so it does not say about baptising children just their entire household.it says repent and be baptised, a child would be considered unaccountable for their sin so it is reasonable to assume baptism was for adults.

 

[sojourner]

so it does not say about baptising children just their entire household.it says repent and be baptised, a child would be considered unaccountable for their sin so it is reasonable to assume baptism was for adults.

The father was expected to take responsibility for the spiritual welfare of his household.

 

[Scott1]

so it does not say about baptising children just their entire household.it says repent and be baptised, a child would be considered unaccountable for their sin so it is reasonable to assume baptism was for adults.

So your take on this is that "entire" in this case means all members --- except some of the members.

OK

Acts 2:38 - Peter says to the multitude, "Repent and be baptized.." Protestants use this verse to prove one must be a believer (not an infant) to be baptized. But the Greek translation literally says, "If you repent, then each one who is a part of you and yours must each be baptized” (“Metanoesate kai bapistheto hekastos hymon.”) This, contrary to what Protestants argue, actually proves that babies are baptized based on their parents’ faith. This is confirmed in the next verse.

Acts 2:39 - Peter then says baptism is specifically given to children as well as adults. “Those far off” refers to those who were at their “homes” (primarily infants and children). God's covenant family includes children. The word "children" that Peter used comes from the Greek word "teknon" which also includes infants.

Luke 1:59 - this proves that "teknon" includes infants. Here, John as a "teknon" (infant) was circumcised. See also Acts 21:21 which uses “teknon” for eight-day old babies. So baptism is for infants as well as adults.

....

 

[Tarheeler]

I don't the exact verses or details, but some Messianic Jews I listened to said that is was a Jewish practice- this was about 30 years ago I heard this.

The closest I've seen is the mikvah, or ritual bath. But the only time it's used in a way similar to Christian baptism is during conversion. We must have a ritual circumcision (or a "mock circumcision" where blood is drawn if already circumcised), sit before a rabbinical court, and go to the mikvah.

But outside of that, the mikvah is a common ritual used for other things. Many orthodox woman will go to it after their menstral period is over, some men attend one every Friday morning in order to prepare for Shabbat, and some people will go to the mikvah after an illness or injury.

To the best of my knowledge, people typically only get baptized once, unless there is a serious struggle of faith.

The ancient uses for both the mikvah and baptism might have been similar (I'm sure others here can offer much better info on it), but I don't see much resemblance between the practices in more recent times.

That being said, the Baptist churches I raised in used full emersion baptism, and never on infants or small children. The youngest I can remember seeing was about 12. It had to be a conscious decision made by someone who could understand the decision.

 

[miss interpret]

So your take on this is that "entire" in this case means all members --- except some of the members.

OK

Acts 2:38 - Peter says to the multitude, "Repent and be baptized.." Protestants use this verse to prove one must be a believer (not an infant) to be baptized. But the Greek translation literally says, "If you repent, then each one who is a part of you and yours must each be baptized” (“Metanoesate kai bapistheto hekastos hymon.”) This, contrary to what Protestants argue, actually proves that babies are baptized based on their parents’ faith. This is confirmed in the next verse.

Acts 2:39 - Peter then says baptism is specifically given to children as well as adults. “Those far off” refers to those who were at their “homes” (primarily infants and children). God's covenant family includes children. The word "children" that Peter used comes from the Greek word "teknon" which also includes infants.

Luke 1:59 - this proves that "teknon" includes infants. Here, John as a "teknon" (infant) was circumcised. See also Acts 21:21 which uses “teknon” for eight-day old babies. So baptism is for infants as well as adults.

....

acts s2 vs 38 says repent and be baptised, again repenting requires to be of an age to have sinned, in vs 39 the reference to the eternal promise not the promise of baptism.the word used is G3813παιδίονpaidionpahee-dee'-onNeuter diminutive of G3816; a childling (of either sex), that is, (properly) an infant, or (by extension) a half grown boy or girl; figuratively an immature Christian:—(little, young) child, damsel.the acts 21-21 is indeed teknon but the first quote from acts is not.

 

[miss interpret]

The closest I've seen is the mikvah, or ritual bath. But the only time it's used in a way similar to Christian baptism is during conversion. We must have a ritual circumcision (or a "mock circumcision" where blood is drawn if already circumcised), sit before a rabbinical court, and go to the mikvah.

But outside of that, the mikvah is a common ritual used for other things. Many orthodox woman will go to it after their menstral period is over, some men attend one every Friday morning in order to prepare for Shabbat, and some people will go to the mikvah after an illness or injury.

To the best of my knowledge, people typically only get baptized once, unless there is a serious struggle of faith.

The ancient uses for both the mikvah and baptism might have been similar (I'm sure others here can offer much better info on it), but I don't see much resemblance between the practices in more recent times.

That being said, the Baptist churches I raised in used full emersion baptism, and never on infants or small children. The youngest I can remember seeing was about 12. It had to be a conscious decision made by someone who could understand the decision.

excellent post, thank you.

 

[sojourner]

The closest I've seen is the mikvah, or ritual bath. But the only time it's used in a way similar to Christian baptism is during conversion. We must have a ritual circumcision (or a "mock circumcision" where blood is drawn if already circumcised), sit before a rabbinical court, and go to the mikvah.

But outside of that, the mikvah is a common ritual used for other things. Many orthodox woman will go to it after their menstral period is over, some men attend one every Friday morning in order to prepare for Shabbat, and some people will go to the mikvah after an illness or injury.

To the best of my knowledge, people typically only get baptized once, unless there is a serious struggle of faith.

The ancient uses for both the mikvah and baptism might have been similar (I'm sure others here can offer much better info on it), but I don't see much resemblance between the practices in more recent times.

That being said, the Baptist churches I raised in used full emersion baptism, and never on infants or small children. The youngest I can remember seeing was about 12. It had to be a conscious decision made by someone who could understand the decision.

Except that there's an important theological difference between the mikvah and baptism. Baptism isn't a purification ritual. It's a sacrament that points to grace (purification -- although not as the Jews would have conceived it) that has already been effected. There is no power in the act, in and of itself -- only as it points to what God has already accomplished.

In that culture, "household" was defined by the father. If the father had exhibited grace, that grace would extend to his entire household -- not just to himself. So baptism would be applied to all in the household, as a sign that the grace rested on the household.