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Christian Belief in Satan

David Davidovich

Well-Known Member
I have a question for Christians. Why do Christians believe that Satan the Devil is an evil spirit being when ancient Judaism, the religion that the Christian religion is derived from, never believed that Satan was an evil spirit being? Or I'm thinking that most Christians don't know that ancient Judaism never believed that ha satan was an evil spirit being.

The Hebrew word śāṭān, meaning “accuser” or “adversary,” occurs several times throughout the Hebrew Bible and refers to enemies both human and celestial alike. When referring to the celestial adversary, the word is typically accompanied by the definite article. He is ha-satanthe Accuser—and it is a job description rather than a proper name. From the Accuser’s appearances in the Books of Job and Zechariah, it seems that the job entails calling attention to the unworthiness of mankind. The Accuser is essentially the prosecuting attorney of the divine court of YHWH, and part of his job includes collecting evidence to prove his cases. With this bit of knowledge in mind, it isn’t difficult to envision the various “outcries against sin,” such as that against Sodom and Gomorrah (Genesis 18:20–21), as the voice of the Accuser.
It is difficult to determine at which point in Israel’s history the Accuser began to take on a much more sinister role in the Israelite/Jewish belief structure, or how heaven’s great prosecutor became the prince of darkness (Ephesians 6:12). It is certainly easy to make the connection between Israel’s time in exile and the likely influence of the cosmic dualism of Persian religion.1 However, even within books written well after the return from foreign lands, the Accuser is still a self-righteous lawyer. Though if 1 Chronicles 21:1 is any indication,2 they began to believe the Accuser wasn’t above getting his hands dirty.
Who Is Satan?

Any feedback from Christians about this would be appreciated.
 

David Davidovich

Well-Known Member
I consider the biblical scriptures to be God’s progressive revelation. So while satan was known as the accuser in Judaism, further information about the nature of this being has been revealed in the New Testament.
Thank you for your reply. So, are you implying that God held back information from the ancient Jews about the nature and the reality of mankind's supposedly most dangerous and worst enemy, but only decided to reveal that information millennia later? And if so, and if you don't know the reason as to why, do you at least have any speculation as to why?
 

InChrist

Free4ever
Thank you for your reply. So, are you implying that God held back information from the ancient Jews about the nature and the reality of mankind's supposedly most dangerous and worst enemy, but only decided to reveal that information millennia later? And if so, and if you don't know the reason as to why, do you at least have any speculation as to why?
I’m not implying anything other than I think God didn’t supply all information all at once. Rather, He chose to reveal information in stages, throughout history as humanity needed, according to His plan, wisdom and culmination in Christ…

God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds; who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, having become so much better than the angels, as He has by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
Hebrews 1:1-4

It was probably enough for the ancient Jews to know and understand that Satan was the “accuser” and “adversary”.
 

David Davidovich

Well-Known Member
I’m not implying anything other than I think God didn’t supply all information all at once. Rather, He chose to reveal information in stages, throughout history as humanity needed, according to His plan, wisdom and culmination in Christ…
Well, you might have a point. Because in another thread in this link in post #265, someone Jewish admitted to that very thing:
In terms of Daniel, because it was written in a mix of Hebrew and Aramaic with a lot of imagery - some of which Daniel was not allowed to fully understand. Also, because verses 1, 2, and 3, are connected. As well as verses 4 to the end. Again, one can read Daniel based on one verse and even then even Daniel was told he was not allowed to fully make certain things clear.
God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds; who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, having become so much better than the angels, as He has by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
Hebrews 1:1-4

It was probably enough for the ancient Jews to know and understand that Satan was the “accuser” and “adversary”.
I suppose. However, there was certainly a lot of danger, hate, violence, killing, murder, heartache, pain, destruction, evil, corruption going on back then for them not to understand what was supposedly really going on.
 

InChrist

Free4ever
Well, you might have a point. Because in another thread in this link in post #265, someone Jewish admitted to that very thing:


I suppose. However, there was certainly a lot of danger, hate, violence, killing, murder, heartache, pain, destruction, evil, corruption going on back then for them not to understand what was supposedly really going on.
I can understand what you are saying, but maybe God was just trying to get His chosen people, the Jews, to trust and obey Him at that point in history. He did promise to protect, preserve, and abundantly provide for them if they did and warned that His hand of protection would be lifted if they didn’t obey, worshipped idols, mistreated the poor, etc. Humans seem to have a problem listening to, trusting, and obeying the wisdom and instructions of their Creator; all humans, not just the Jews.
 

David Davidovich

Well-Known Member
I can understand what you are saying, but maybe God was just trying to get His chosen people, the Jews, to trust and obey Him at that point in history.
But to the point where they had their own understanding of what Satan is? Because as we all know, when knowledge is held back from us or we don't know the full details of a situation, often times our imaginations comes into play and fills in the gaps. And I'm not saying that's what happened with the Jews, because from my understanding from talking to some of them, God was supposed to have also dictated scribes and Rabbis, etc. to write down interpretations of the Torah, which were said to be just as directed by God as was the actual Torah itself. Therefore, Jews have a totally different understanding of let's say the Genesis Adam and Eve and talking serpent account:
The purpose of Satan and the Satanic force in the world is to obstruct our spiritual progress. Life is supposed to be a path to G-d. If the journey were a breeze, with no challenges, there would be little virtue in succeeding. For example, G-d tells us not to commit adultery. If there were no strong sexual impulse, and if people of the opposite sex looked like sacks of potatoes, there wouldn't be much virtue in being moral. G-d asks us to return the lost objects of people that we may happen to find. If we had no lust for money, then there would be little virtue in returning someone's wallet. The rabbis teach in the Talmud that Satan basically resides inside of us, and it's called the Yetzer Hara (Inclination Toward Evil). The rabbis say that this Satanic force is the greatest blessing that G-d ever gave us! Satan is the loyal opposition.
Can you help clarify the Jewish concept of "Satan" for me?
In Judaism, yetzer hara (Hebrew: יֵצֶר הַרַע yēṣer haraʿ) is the congenital inclination to do evil, by violating the will of God. The term is drawn from the phrase "the imagination of the heart of man [is] evil" (יֵצֶר לֵב הָאָדָם רַע‎, yetzer lev-ha-adam ra), which occurs twice at the beginning of the Torah (Genesis 6:5 and Genesis 8:21).

The Hebrew word "yetzer" having appeared twice in Genesis occurs again at the end of the Torah: "I knew their devisings that they do".[1] Thus from beginning to end the heart's "yetzer" (plan) is continually bent on evil. However, the Torah which began with blessing [2] anticipates future blessing [3] which will come as a result of God circumcising the heart in the latter days.[4]
Yetzer hara
So, it's not as if the Jews sat around in ignorance, not having any concept of what Satan was. Therefore, I don't quite understand how you could say that, "maybe God was just trying to get His chosen people, the Jews, to trust and obey Him at that point in history." So, I ask the question: Trust and obey Him about what????
He did promise to protect, preserve, and abundantly provide for them if they did and warned that His hand of protection would be lifted if they didn’t obey, worshipped idols, mistreated the poor, etc. Humans seem to have a problem listening to, trusting, and obeying the wisdom and instructions of their Creator; all humans, not just the Jews.
So, what exactly are you saying in the above quote in regard to ancients Jews' understanding and belief about Satan? :confused:
 

Brian2

Veteran Member
Thank you for your reply. So, are you implying that God held back information from the ancient Jews about the nature and the reality of mankind's supposedly most dangerous and worst enemy, but only decided to reveal that information millennia later? And if so, and if you don't know the reason as to why, do you at least have any speculation as to why?

IMO Satan was a sly manipulator of the truth and did not show fully what he was like until some way down the track.
In Eden Satan certainly lied about God and was punished for that, but maybe the Jews don't see the serpent as Satan.
Eventually Satan and the angels who followed him were judged and kicked out of heaven as Rev 12 (and other places) tell us.
 

Apostle John

“Go ahead, look up Revelation 6”
Satan is an evil spirit/angel. He resides in the second heaven. God is in third heaven. We humans are in this physical world, first heaven. More details about Satan were given to Christians, it’s why Jews have a different view.
 

wellwisher

Well-Known Member
I have a question for Christians. Why do Christians believe that Satan the Devil is an evil spirit being when ancient Judaism, the religion that the Christian religion is derived from, never believed that Satan was an evil spirit being? Or I'm thinking that most Christians don't know that ancient Judaism never believed that ha satan was an evil spirit being.



Who Is Satan?

Any feedback from Christians about this would be appreciated.
Satan is both good and evil, as implied by the tree of knowledge of good and evil, by which Satin is associated. The Devil is just the dark side of the Satan binary; evil without good.

Law, which is composed of knowledge of good and evil, has a biblical connection to Satan. The law not only teaches us what is good, but also what is evil. The intent of this dual training is to help people see the good, but also know what to avoid; avoid evil, by defining and contrasting both.

Most people who try to do good, by learning good and evil; law, then will try to repress evil. However, the repression of evil, to be only the good, causes a subroutine to appear within the human brain; Satan subroutine.

Law is one thing, divided into two, like a coin divided into heads and tails. If we know law; both sides of the coin, and try to do good, the evil is still there, but it becomes the hidden side of the law coin. Being good, based on law, by repressing evil, creates balancing compulsions, with the unconscious trying to make the repressed side of law become conscious. Law is not natural but is consciously learned. But due to its nature, it requires we repress half of what we learned, so we can be good. Now the full coin of law is only semi-conscious, with the dark side of law subject to unconsciousness; not fully aware.

Paul said, I would not have known about coveting, unless the law had told me, thou shall not to covert. Sin taking opportunity through the commandment; repressed darkside subroutine, then produces sin of every kind. For example, in many traditions sex outside marriage was/is a sin. People trying to be good, by the law, would stop having sex outside marriage. However, this repression of the dark side of law, would cause sex to be more on your mind; repression becoming conscious. The result can be the preacher, who teaches and practices abstinence, having a scandal with prostitutes, due to the compulsion from the repressed Satan subroutine. This downside of law was what Jesus did away with law. Even if you are perfect on the outside for all the see, there is this internal repressed darkness that your learned from law. The Old Testament did not see this, but it was figured out in the New Testament. The pharisees kill the son of God thinking this was good; satan subroutine.

Satan is an evil spirit/angel. He resides in the second heaven. God is in third heaven. We humans are in this physical world, first heaven. More details about Satan were given to Christians, it’s why Jews have a different view.
Satan in the second heaven implies 2-D; good and evil. God is in the third heaven or 3-D; instinct. Instinct is 3-D or integral since it integrates animals with each other and nature. Humans are more 1-D; we need to pick a side; good or evil. In politics each side thinks they are good and other side is the evil and both try to repress each other. When Liberals listen to Conservative speakers, they try to drown them out with noise, so the other side stays repressed; 1-D is linear. The repressed side then builds potential, trying to become conscious; ends justifies the means. This can amount to crime being used for their perceived good; Russian Collusion Coup. This understanding of human Psychology made Satan evil.

The good side of Satan, in Christian theology; best of all the laws, becomes personified by Jesus and also Mary. Both are archetypical spirits of pure good. They are good, without the shadow side; subroutine, created by law. Jesus sort of narrowed Satan; took away his good, so Satan becomes only the dark side subroutine, with a new title; the Devil.

Heaven and Hell, for example, is the same as taking law, putting just the pure good in one place and the pure evil collected in another place, that are no longer connected, The binary of law is broken in halves. The Satan/Devil subroutine had it own realm connected to what the law says of the dark side. Think of Hell and what it takes to get there, and there is a law to teach you. Heaven is a realm of the all the goods side of law. There is also a the flip side of the law to teach this. Once separated, neither side has any repressed subroutine, so both are self standing at steady state; linear good and linear evil.

The prophetic analogy would be learning about law, so you know both sides of law. You choose good and then repress evil. The evil memories from law consolidates in your neural grid, into a subroutine, that has an opposing world view to your choice and will to be good. One becomes like Jesus on the cross, between two thieves, both theives cheat you from becoming whole; divided coin. Although one side is trying to be good using the wrong tool in terms of brain psychology.

To overcome this paradox; good psychology strategy, is to express the dark side, but under controlled conditions, so we can lower its potential, do minimal harm, and map out how the subroutine is laid out. Then, we disrupt the dark side subroutine, so one is made whole, in good, without any unconscious need and compulsion stemming from the dark side of law; Operating system upgrade. Christianity, with the help of the intellect of Rome had a vision of the future.

Jesus said, he is one with father, he gets an upgrade from 2-D law and Satan, to 3-D. Instead of good and evil, The 3-D explains why Jesus, described as good, becomes a militant figure in Revelations. He is not good and evil, but Good with his still repressed instincts, acting as ordained by God; 3-D. Animal fighting for survival and territory; righteousness. The tree of life appears later; instincts return.
 

Brian2

Veteran Member
Question... But why would filthy beasts such as that be allowed to dwell in such a clean and holy environment?

That's like asking why us humans are allowed to live here on earth and continue to do evil things.
God lets things play out so that God has enough to judge people and angels justly. This is a matter of God's justice, but also because God Himself is being judged to make sure He is doing things properly imo.
So Satan was allowed to be in heaven until there was enough to condemn Him properly imo.
Why Satan and his angels were allowed to come to earth to live is hard to say.
 

muhammad_isa

Veteran Member
Question... But why would filthy beasts such as that be allowed to dwell in such a clean and holy environment?
We can all become "filthy beasts"..
Lucifer became satan when he disobeyed G-d due to pride and arrogance.
he then vowed to send all of mankind astray out of spite.
..but those that remember G-d often will eventually be saved from the evil he spreads.
 

Wandering Monk

Well-Known Member
I consider the biblical scriptures to be God’s progressive revelation. So while satan was known as the accuser in Judaism, further information about the nature of this being has been revealed in the New Testament.

And Muslims also believe in progressive revelation, so you should probably be Muslim instead of Christian.
 

David Davidovich

Well-Known Member
That's like asking why us humans are allowed to live here on earth and continue to do evil things.
It is? I thought that the earth was a sin infested abode. However, I thought that heaven was holy.
God lets things play out so that God has enough to judge people and angels justly.
So, that mean that there was a time when he didn't have enough to judge people and angels justly?
This is a matter of God's justice, but also because God Himself is being judged to make sure He is doing things properly imo.
God, being judged? So, what about Romans 3:4, which requires Christians to tie themselves into knots trying to defend their beliefs and defend God?
So Satan was allowed to be in heaven until there was enough to condemn Him properly imo.
So, lying to Adam and Eve and causing their deaths and the deaths of all their unborn children wasn't enough?
Why Satan and his angels were allowed to come to earth to live is hard to say.
I don't know... Perhaps cruelty to the human race on God's part?
 

Brian2

Veteran Member
It is? I thought that the earth was a sin infested abode. However, I thought that heaven was holy.

It is only because sinners live here on earth that the earth is sin infested. So God allowed/s us to live in His creation and make it unholy with our sins.

So, that mean that there was a time when he didn't have enough to judge people and angels justly?

Even if He knows us and what we will be like and what we will do before we exist God could not legitimately judge humanity when most of humanity was not even born yet.
We don't really know the ins and outs of Satan and his place in heaven and that of the angels but we know God knows the future and what He will do but there is no reason to do it until the angels and people actually live and do things which God can judge.


God, being judged? So, what about Romans 3:4, which requires Christians to tie themselves into knots trying to defend their beliefs and defend God?

I don't know what you mean about Romans 3:4.
But God is being judged by the angels and other spirits and if the see God be unjust then they might just make any rebellion against God wider and many more might go the way of Satan and those who followed him.

So, lying to Adam and Eve and causing their deaths and the deaths of all their unborn children wasn't enough?

I would have thought so but Satan is cunning and able to twist things around and probably make it sound as if nothing was his fault.

I don't know... Perhaps cruelty to the human race on God's part?

We humans choose the path we take and what we do. We are the ones who are cruel to one another.
 
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