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Christian God Really Loving?

Antiochian

Rationalist
Well-meaning progressive Christians will say things like God/Jesus taught love, not hate, when responding to or talking about overtly hateful Christians.

But how can the Christian God be loving when he apparently advocated mass murder, such as in the book of Joshua? (Progressives will say the story probably never actually occurred, anyway, but the fact is that progressives still call this *sacred* scripture as do the conservatives and loonies.)

How can Jesus be preaching love when he pretty much states that he's the only way to heaven? (In other words, to hell with all the good Buddhists, agnostics, etc.)

I'd love to hear from you on this, and my apologies if it's been posted before.
 
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angellous_evangellous

Guest
To put it simply.... it's our book, we interpret it how we like.

To put it complex - Christians who believe that God is love and that the book of Joshua (etc) is sacred Scripture interpret Joshua in light of that belief.

It shouldn't surprise you that Christians know God primarily through the New Testament and are convinced that God is love through that portion of the Bible, not Joshua (etc).
 
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angellous_evangellous

Guest
doppelgänger;2653246 said:
He/she/it is EXACTLY as loving as the person doing the "God" channeling.

I've channeled some crazy ****.
 

Antiochian

Rationalist
To put it simply.... it's our book, we interpret it how we like.

To put it complex - Christians who believe that God is love and that the book of Joshua (etc) is sacred Scripture interpret Joshua in light of that belief.

It shouldn't surprise you that Christians know God primarily through the New Testament and are convinced that God is love through that portion of the Bible, not Joshua (etc).

That doesn't answer my question about Jesus preaching hell. Granted, some Anglicans, of whose church I nearly became a convert a year or so ago, don't believe in hell. Still, most do. If God condemns my atheist best friend, my Wiccan brother, and my animist great-great-great grandpa for having the wrong theology, then that's not love. And that's what put the final nail in the Christian coffin for me, and kept me from becoming a good Anglican.

Secondly, how does a book of the Bible such as Joshua so full of murder in any way show God to be loving?
 
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angellous_evangellous

Guest
That doesn't answer my question about Jesus preaching hell. Granted, some Anglicans, of whose church I nearly became a convert a year or so ago, don't believe in hell. Still, most do. If God condemns my atheist best friend, my Wiccan brother, and my animist great-great-great grandpa for having the wrong theology, then that's not love. And that's what put the final nail in the Christian coffin for me, and kept me from becoming a good Anglican.

Secondly, how does a book of the Bible such as Joshua so full of murder in any way show God to be loving?

Is that question in the OP?
 

krsnaraja

Active Member
doppelgänger;2653274 said:
Why would you look to a book to discover the love of God to begin with?

You remind me of my friend, thisbody. He`s a German who practices Kriya yoga. He shared with me what he knew!
 

nnmartin

Well-Known Member
If God condemns my atheist best friend, my Wiccan brother, and my animist great-great-great grandpa for having the wrong theology, then that's not love. And that's what put the final nail in the Christian coffin for me, and kept me from becoming a good Anglican.

Well said , I've read many times in Christian literature that all religions other than Christianity and Judaism are wrong and don't even count as religions. Doubt you'd survive too long in The Middle East or India with that attitude.

The Church has clearly distorted the words of the Bible to fit it's own agenda and that is why, I too, have turned away from the Anglican Community of lies.
 

dawny0826

Mother Heathen
Well-meaning progressive Christians will say things like God/Jesus taught love, not hate, when responding to or talking about overtly hateful Christians.

But how can the Christian God be loving when he apparently advocated mass murder, such as in the book of Joshua? (Progressives will say the story probably never actually occurred, anyway, but the fact is that progressives still call this *sacred* scripture as do the conservatives and loonies.)

How can Jesus be preaching love when he pretty much states that he's the only way to heaven? (In other words, to hell with all the good Buddhists, agnostics, etc.)

I'd love to hear from you on this, and my apologies if it's been posted before.

I don't claim to understand God and certainly have many questions, myself, but I have a hard time - scripture aside - of pinning blame on God for much of anything, when it's people that murder, rape, enslave, etc.

It's hard for me to get angry with God for anything that man has done.
 

CynthiaCypher

Well-Known Member
I don't claim to understand God and certainly have many questions, myself, but I have a hard time - scripture aside - of pinning blame on God for much of anything, when it's people that murder, rape, enslave, etc.

It's hard for me to get angry with God for anything that man has done.

But in the OT ,the people are commiting rape, murder and enslavement at the direct command of Yahweh as given by his prophet.
 

fallingblood

Agnostic Theist
But in the OT ,the people are commiting rape, murder and enslavement at the direct command of Yahweh as given by his prophet.
Really? You mean even though that same God also supposedly made laws against rape, murder, and some would argue, enslavement?

I think you need to reread the OT again. Or not, and just leave the entire issue alone.
 

CynthiaCypher

Well-Known Member
Really? You mean even though that same God also supposedly made laws against rape, murder, and some would argue, enslavement?

I think you need to reread the OT again. Or not, and just leave the entire issue alone.

Perhap it is you who should reread the OT.

"When the LORD your God brings you into the land where you are entering to possess it, and clears away many nations before you, the Hittites and the Girga****es and the Amorites and the Canaanites and the Perizzites and the Hivites and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and stronger than you, and when the LORD your God delivers them before you and you defeat them, then you shall utterly destroy them. You shall make no covenant with them and show no favor to them." Deut 7: 1-2
 

waitasec

Veteran Member
Perhap it is you who should reread the OT.

"When the LORD your God brings you into the land where you are entering to possess it, and clears away many nations before you, the Hittites and the Girga****es and the Amorites and the Canaanites and the Perizzites and the Hivites and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and stronger than you, and when the LORD your God delivers them before you and you defeat them, then you shall utterly destroy them. You shall make no covenant with them and show no favor to them." Deut 7: 1-2

apparently god was kidding...
:sarcastic
 

fallingblood

Agnostic Theist
Well-meaning progressive Christians will say things like God/Jesus taught love, not hate, when responding to or talking about overtly hateful Christians.

But how can the Christian God be loving when he apparently advocated mass murder, such as in the book of Joshua? (Progressives will say the story probably never actually occurred, anyway, but the fact is that progressives still call this *sacred* scripture as do the conservatives and loonies.)

How can Jesus be preaching love when he pretty much states that he's the only way to heaven? (In other words, to hell with all the good Buddhists, agnostics, etc.)

I'd love to hear from you on this, and my apologies if it's been posted before.
Does Jesus preach he is the only way to heaven? Some have made that argument, but I doubt Jesus ever said such. In fact, I have actually seen arguments that the NT states all will go to heaven. I those probably don't interest non-Christians who have a long hatred or disgust with Christianity as they feel that it wronged them. And I understand that. I was in the same boat.

Also, Jesus doesn't teach about hell. Not really in this posts of yours, but you do mention it later. Just thought I would throw that in.

But how can Jesus be preaching love? He just can. I mean, just because he may preach other things that contradict that central teaching, doesn't mean he isn't teaching love. In fact, he stated that one of the greatest commandments was to love your neighbor. This is a commandment that has been shared by many Jews throughout history, and Jesus was hardly the first one to say such. We can even see this in the OT. Look at the book of Jonah. A great example of a writing depicting God's love for the world.

As for Joshua, it is dealing with the rise of a nation. Of course they are going to justify their actions. They believed God had a special purpose for them. So they justify their actions through God as they believe that God wanted it that way. Does it mean God really justified such ideals? No. But really, if that is what you take out of the entire Bible, then it is only because that is what you are looking for.

More so, Christians don't depict what or who God is. There are Christians who are serial killers. They don't do that because that is what God is. They do that because that is who they are. People just need to put the blame where it rests, on the individual person, and not some supreme being that may or may not exist.

Finally, if you read the NT, yes it talks about sin and the like. However, if you pay attention, it talks much more about salvation. It is not a message of hate it is a message of love. Too many non-Christians miss that because they have a bone to pick with Christianity, God, and the Bible all because they feel like they have been wronged. Really, that is not the way to go into such a study.
 

fallingblood

Agnostic Theist
Perhap it is you who should reread the OT.

"When the LORD your God brings you into the land where you are entering to possess it, and clears away many nations before you, the Hittites and the Girga****es and the Amorites and the Canaanites and the Perizzites and the Hivites and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and stronger than you, and when the LORD your God delivers them before you and you defeat them, then you shall utterly destroy them. You shall make no covenant with them and show no favor to them." Deut 7: 1-2
You didn't read my post. I'm not saying there are atrocious acts and the like in the OT. I'm saying that picking out only the evil is ridiculous, because we also see laws against such things, and teachings against such things.

More so, we are talking about war. This hardly represents a good case about the evils of Christianity (especially since this is regarding Jews, and the formation of a nation). People justify actions. This is just one of those cases. More so, if you read the OT, you would see that there are laws against murder.

Picking out just parts that support you, without looking at it as a whole, just doesn't work. Especially when that means you ignore a lot of stuff that could be helpful, and has helped many people cope throughout the years.
 

CynthiaCypher

Well-Known Member
You didn't read my post. I'm not saying there are atrocious acts and the like in the OT. I'm saying that picking out only the evil is ridiculous, because we also see laws against such things, and teachings against such things.

More so, we are talking about war. This hardly represents a good case about the evils of Christianity (especially since this is regarding Jews, and the formation of a nation). People justify actions. This is just one of those cases. More so, if you read the OT, you would see that there are laws against murder.

Picking out just parts that support you, without looking at it as a whole, just doesn't work. Especially when that means you ignore a lot of stuff that could be helpful, and has helped many people cope throughout the years.

Ok. If a person were too preach love and peace out of one side of his mouth and then go preach war and domination out of the other, wouldn't we say that such a person is a hypocrite.

So what if Yahweh made laws against murder. The moment Yahweh made the command the command to murder, rape and enslave is the moment Yahweh showed himself to be less than loving.
 

fallingblood

Agnostic Theist
Ok. If a person were too preach love and peace out of one side of his mouth and then go preach war and domination out of the other, wouldn't we say that such a person is a hypocrite.

So what if Yahweh made laws against murder. The moment Yahweh made the command the command to murder, rape and enslave is the moment Yahweh showed himself to be less than loving.
Did Yahweh do any of that? Or was that how humans justified their actions, and made laws to regulate their actions? I think the latter of the two is more convincing.

More so, being a hypocrite does not mean one is not loving. Have you ever said something, and then changed your mind, or did something else? What about in special circumstances? Have you ever disobeyed a law and then justified doing such? Probably. It happens. And people tend to model God after themselves, in order to be better able to connect to him.
 
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