Christian Only: Is Heaven One-Size-Fits-All or Multi-Tiered

[Katzpur]

The question of whether there are different "levels" within Heaven was mentioned recently in another thread. Do you believe there are are divisions of any kind in Heaven? Why or why not?

 

[Enoch07]

No disrespect to my LDS brothers and sisters. But I don't really think Heaven will have different layers. But who knows for sure though right? I believe there is a slight division or difference between Heaven and the Kingdom of Heaven. Where basically the Kingdom of Heaven would be inside the pearly gates, and the area outside the gates is just Heaven, kinda like a waiting area for those to be judged. Once you pass judgment you are allowed to enter the gates and all is good.

 

[Smoke]

The question of whether there are different "levels" within Heaven was mentioned recently in another thread. Do you believe there are are divisions of any kind in Heaven? Why or why not?

If I may add a question, what do Christians who don't believe in different levels of heaven make of Paul's claim to have been caught up to the third heaven?

 

[Katzpur]

No disrespect to my LDS brothers and sisters. But I don't really think Heaven will have different layers. But who knows for sure though right? I believe there is a slight division or difference between Heaven and the Kingdom of Heaven. Where basically the Kingdom of Heaven would be inside the pearly gates, and the area outside the gates is just Heaven, kinda like a waiting area for those to be judged. Once you pass judgment you are allowed to enter the gates and all is good.

Everyone who enters heaven is "saved," so to speak, but what do you think Jesus meant when He said He would "reward every man according to his works"? To me, that means that the greater the works, the greater the reward.

Let's say there's a guy named John. He didn't exactly live an exemplary life. He didn't cheat on his wife, but he was pretty verbally abusive to her and his kids. He wasn't a very good neighbor and no one really cared much for him. He routinely took advantage of people and never went out of his way for anyone. He did claim to believe in Christ, though, and to have faith that he would be forgiven of his sins. When he died and stood before God to be judged, God recognized that he was sorry for the way he'd lived his life and let him into heaven.

Then there's another guy named Bob. He was pretty much the opposite of John. He was an absolutely devoted husband and father. Everyone he knew loved him because he was so genuinely concerned about the happiness of every person he ever came in contact with. He also believed in Christ, and while he realized that he had many shortcomings, he tried to live the way Christ had said we should live. When he died and stood before God to be judged, God could see that he also was repentant and let him into heaven.

Do you believe these two men will spend eternity in exactly the same state? How were they judged "according to their works"?

 

[Enoch07]

I always thought everyone was the same, other than my spiritual clothing comment from the other thread (good dees = nice cloths, bad deeds/no deeds= bad cloths). Once sin is forgiven it is erased from the book of life and not to be ever mentioned again, so in that respect all those repentant are even.

Now as far as good deeds go, I think the reward in that is just the reward in knowing that you are a kind, caring, human being making a difference in the world. Cant find the scripture but it goes something like "Mans good deeds are but ragged linens compared to the glory of the Lord" or something like that ( i totally messed it up but its something similar). What the real scripture actually means is we should do good deeds of course, but compared to God our good deeds are not that great really.

Disclaimer: I admit I could be wrong. These are just my opinions, by no means am I saying that what I think is iron clad.

 

[Ringer]

My personal belief is that there will be one heaven but each person will have different "rewards" based on what they did here on earth. The rewards won't be like a status thing (ie. Look how much I have compared to you) but will be our way of praising God by giving them back to Him. Off the top of my head I can't think of a place in the Bible that talks about different tiers of Heaven so it's not something I've given much thought. The verse that Paul talks about with reference to the Third Heaven, I've always thought was just refering to Heaven it'self. First Heaven being what we can see here on Earth, Second Heaven being the cosmos, and Third Heaven being the dwelling place of God and those who have life in Him. It's an interesting topic and I can't wait to see what others believe on the subject.

 

[sojourner]

Christian Only: Is Heaven One-Size-Fits-All or Multi-Tiered

There is only one size -- God's size. In heaven, we will all be one in God.

 

[ayani]

There is only one size -- God's size. In heaven, we will all be one in God.

i really like this.

Jesus says that His Father's house has many rooms, and that He has gone to prepare a place for those who believe in and belong to Him. at the same time, the Bible is clear that in Christ there is no division, hierarchy, status, or lowness, as all of faith are equal in Him. so i see no reason to conclude that His Kingdom would have "levels" or tiers, as all believers in Christ are promised His kingdom, and as all believers are equal in Him.

the righteous of every nation described in the Bible are not described as being let into God's kingdom in ranks or by number or by levels. they are simply told by Christ "enter into eternal life" (Matthew 25:31-46).

heaven may well have many facets or dimensions, but i see no Biblical basis for Christ confining certain people to one level while allowing others to enter or enjoy a "higher" level. Jesus is clear that the kingdom, all of it, is for all believers, and that if we belong to Him, we are One in Him, not divided by rank or status.

 

[michel]

I agree;

Search Results

John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

I am not so sure of "tiers" and "levels",. although I suppose opne could read something of that ilk in the "many mansions"; but paradise will be here on earth - as opposed to heaven which is reserved for God and the Angels.

Personally, I would have thought that we would all be on the one level - the many mansions simply indicating the vastness of paradise, where there will be room for all.

Defender's notes:

The Father's "house" is where we shall dwell forever (Psalm 23:6). It is also "the household of God" (Ephesians 2:19) and corresponds to the "holy city" (Revelation 21:2) which will be placed on the new earth as our eternal home. Its dimensions are given (see note on Revelation 21:15), and it is amply large to provide many "mansions." This word is used only one other time, in John 14:23, referring to the "abode" where the Father and the Son will dwell with the believer.​

Source:

KJV Defenders Study Bible, by Dr. Henry Morris, Ph.D.
Publisher: Thomas Nelson
Language: English
DEF 10 ISBN 0-529-10444-x
DEF 10-1 ISBN 0-529-10445-8

 

[LittleNipper]

The question of whether there are different "levels" within Heaven was mentioned recently in another thread. Do you believe there are are divisions of any kind in Heaven? Why or why not?

I know that there will be various rewards in heaven and some will have fewer rewards than others. I do not know if there will be divisions in heaven other than heaven is a place of many rooms (often translated mansions).

 

[Katzpur]

I always thought everyone was the same, other than my spiritual clothing comment from the other thread (good dees = nice cloths, bad deeds/no deeds= bad cloths). Once sin is forgiven it is erased from the book of life and not to be ever mentioned again, so in that respect all those repentant are even.

Now as far as good deeds go, I think the reward in that is just the reward in knowing that you are a kind, caring, human being making a difference in the world. Cant find the scripture but it goes something like "Mans good deeds are but ragged linens compared to the glory of the Lord" or something like that ( i totally messed it up but its something similar). What the real scripture actually means is we should do good deeds of course, but compared to God our good deeds are not that great really.

Disclaimer: I admit I could be wrong. These are just my opinions, by no means am I saying that what I think is iron clad.

In 1 Corinthians 15, Paul speaks specifically of the resurrection of all mankind. In order to really understand how the following verses fit it, it would be helpful to read the entire chapter.

1 Corinthians 15:40-42 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory. So also is the resurrection of the dead.

Obviously there are many different interpretations of these verses, but when taken in the context of the entire chapter, it seems pretty reasonable to me to believe that they are describing different levels or states assigned to mankind after the resurrection, each one different in glory from the others.

 

[blackout]

Everyone who enters heaven is "saved," so to speak, but what do you think Jesus meant when He said He would "reward every man according to his works"? To me, that means that the greater the works, the greater the reward.

Let's say there's a guy named John. He didn't exactly live an exemplary life. He didn't cheat on his wife, but he was pretty verbally abusive to her and his kids. He wasn't a very good neighbor and no one really cared much for him. He routinely took advantage of people and never went out of his way for anyone. He did claim to believe in Christ, though, and to have faith that he would be forgiven of his sins. When he died and stood before God to be judged, God recognized that he was sorry for the way he'd lived his life and let him into heaven.

Then there's another guy named Bob. He was pretty much the opposite of John. He was an absolutely devoted husband and father. Everyone he knew loved him because he was so genuinely concerned about the happiness of every person he ever came in contact with. He also believed in Christ, and while he realized that he had many shortcomings, he tried to live the way Christ had said we should live. When he died and stood before God to be judged, God could see that he also was repentant and let him into heaven.

Do you believe these two men will spend eternity in exactly the same state? How were they judged "according to their works"?

Hi Katz. I'm more inclined to go with the "many mansions" symbolism.
We are each unique individuals.
Our "REALity" reflects, and is a reflection of how we think, how we see....
what we do.... what inspires us.... HOW we communicate... HOW we love...
how we interpret and live out our existence NOW.

Eternity is the NOW moment.
I am a musician in eternity. My mansion contains many pianos.
(ie much music making)
I relationship with the divine in my own uniquely divine way,
just as you relationship with the divine in your own uniquely divine way.

We each realize/REALize and BEcome a Self.
We are doing that in every moment,
and gOd.... UniVerse .... REALity ...
responds in relationship to our individual style/s of BEing.

Certainly though there are "levels" of "things".
Awareness... skill.... experience...
still this would be Unique, according to each individual.

Your reward is your own. Your reward is what you do.

What is rewarding for you... may not be for me.
and ViceaVersa.

Those are my thoughts. Today anyway.
Enjoying your thread.

 

[dawny0826]

The question of whether there are different "levels" within Heaven was mentioned recently in another thread. Do you believe there are are divisions of any kind in Heaven? Why or why not?

I believe that there will be different levels of rewards for faith and works. Whether God provides this in the form of status, actual treausures or chocolate...I have no idea. But I don't think anyone will be complaining.

 

[ChristineES]

I don't know what Heaven is outside of it being God's kingdom and a union with God. It could be either one size fits all or multi-tiered. The latter is believable because of certain verses that have already been quoted in this thread.

 

[Enoch07]

I don't know what Heaven is outside of it being God's kingdom and a union with God. It could be either one size fits all or multi-tiered. The latter is believable because of certain verses that have already been quoted in this thread.

Aye I agree with ChristineES. Heaven might be multi-tiered or one size fits all, doesnt really matter to me one way or the other. Regardless of which, those that pass judgment wont be complaining compared to where all the unfortunate others go.

 

[edward]

I tend to believe that heaven is heaven. I am reminded of the parable of the vineyard. The householder hired several people at different times during the day. He hired each person for the same amount. When the end of the day came he paid each person one penny. Of course, this upset those who had worked all day and received the same amount of money as those who only worked one hour. The householder couldn't understand why thosed working longer were upset. They were being paid what was promised as were all of the other employees. (Matthew 20:1-16)

Is not the kingdom of like that? If we are promised life exhalted/ eternal/ everlastering, what difference does it make if others were promised the same thing?

Matthew 20​

1 For the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which went out early in the morning to hire labourers into his vineyard. 2 And when he had agreed with the labourers for a penny a day, he sent them into his vineyard. 3 And he went out about the third hour, and saw others standing idle in the marketplace, 4 And said unto them; Go ye also into the vineyard, and whatsoever is right I will give you. And they went their way. 5 Again he went out about the sixth and ninth hour, and did likewise. 6 And about the eleventh hour he went out, and found others standing idle, and saith unto them, Why stand ye here all the day idle? 7 They say unto him, Because no man hath hired us. He saith unto them, Go ye also into the vineyard; and whatsoever is right, that shall ye receive. 8 So when even was come, the lord of the vineyard saith unto his steward, Call the labourers, and give them their hire, beginning from the last unto the first. 9 And when they came that were about the eleventh hour, they received every man a penny. 10 But when the first came, they supposed that they should have received more; and they likewise received every man a penny. 11 And when they had received it, they murmured against the goodman of the house, 12 Saying, These last have wrought but one hour, and thou hast made them equal unto us, which have borne the burden and heat of the day. 13 But he answered one of them, and said, Friend, I do thee no wrong: didst not thou agree with me for a penny? 14 Take that thine is, and go thy way: I will give unto this last, even as unto thee. 15 Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good? 16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen. (Matthew 20:1-16), KJV.​

Edward​

 

[Katzpur]

I tend to believe that heaven is heaven. I am reminded of the parable of the vineyard. The householder hired several people at different times during the day. He hired each person for the same amount. When the end of the day came he paid each person one penny. Of course, this upset those who had worked all day and received the same amount of money as those who only worked one hour. The householder couldn't understand why thosed working longer were upset. They were being paid what was promised as were all of the other employees. (Matthew 20:1-16)

Is not the kingdom of like that? If we are promised life exhalted/ eternal/ everlastering, what difference does it make if others were promised the same thing?

To me, you're comparing apples to oranges. A better parable in this case would be the parable of the talents.

Matthew 25:14-30 For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods. And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey.

Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents. And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two. But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord's money. After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them. And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more. His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord. He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them. His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.

Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed: And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine. His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed: Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury. Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents. For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath. And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

I believe this parable is saying that we will be rewarded in accordance with our efforts in being faithful and obedient. I would not argue that someone who was born into a good Christian home and raised with good values is entitled to more than the person who hears and accepts the gospel later in life. But when two individuals are not equally obedient to God's commandments, why should both receive the same reward? And what do you think Jesus meant when He said He would reward every man "according to His works"?

 

[ayani]

Katz ~

the above parable is interesting, and i've heard a few sermons preached on it.

yet in the end, both sincere workers are told by the Master "thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy Lord". the men were given different amounts of money to work with, yet both are told the same things at the end of their labors by God.

Jesus does say He will reward us according to our works. yet Matthew 20:1-16 demonstrates via parable that regardless of when the laborer went to work in God's Kingdom, he received the same wages as those who came earlier. it didn't matter to the Lord how long they worked or how much they got done compared to others- only that they said "yes" to His offer to be hired.

 

[Katzpur]

Jesus does say He will reward us according to our works. yet Matthew 20:1-16 demonstrates via parable that regardless of when the laborer went to work in God's Kingdom, he received the same wages as those who came earlier. it didn't matter to the Lord how long they worked or how much they got done compared to others- only that they said "yes" to His offer to be hired.

Yes, they both said "yes" to His offer to be hired, although they were hired at different times. The parable doesn't actually say how faithfully they both worked in God's Kingdom, but since it doesn't, I think it stands to reason to believe that they were both faithful workers. The entire point to the parable seems, in my opinion, to be directed at Christians who feel that the length of time they have been serving ought to be taken into account with respect to their reward. I think it is also saying that if we have been blessed and do not use our blessings to their fullest advantage, they will be taken away from us. If we have been given truth and knowledge and do not use it wisely, we will lose our right to it. Isn't that much the same thing as saying that the faithful will be blessed to a greater degree than the less faithful?

If you believe that the most faithful and the least faithful will have exactly the same reward, could you explain what you believe Jesus meant by His statement that He would reward us "according to our works." If you believe I have misinterpreted His statement, could you offer an alternative interpretation?

And finally, to those who would concede that greater faithfulness will result in greater blessings or rewards, what do you believe these might be? Surely not a golden halo as opposed to a bronze halo or a higher quality harp or a more elegant set of wings. What kind of greater blessings or reward can you conceive of in Heaven?

 

[ayani]

Katz ~

i take scripture to interpret scripture, so in relation to Jesus' promise to reward us based on our works, i understand it to mean just that.

that Jesus will reward us based on our work for His Kingdom. one can't enter that Kingdom without faith and discipleship, and it is faith and God's grace which makes that entrance possible in this life.

yet Jesus doesn't say He will reward us in different measure based on our works. our works can not be the same form person to person. one person will be called to build a Christian school, others to preach the Gospel in Columbia, others to serve and minister to the sick at a local hospital in Jesus' name. as the parable of the talents illustrates, we are not given identical amounts or opportunities to work with. but we are given equal reward for what we do with what we've been given.