Christian Trump Supporters

[ElishaElijah]

And therefore you want your government to force women to carry a child to term, enslaving their bodies for the sake of political ideology and some vague notion of "morality" that most cannot even articulate.

Is that the kind of "freedom" I hear Christian-fundamentalist Americans so frequently talking about? Literal forced labor?

Is it freedom for the innocent child in the womb or just kill it? I think if a female dog was pregnant and you didn’t want the puppies so you killed them all, I wonder what our society would think of that?

 

[Kenny]

I wouldn't think that from you. My thoughts to your sisters, I can't imagine how tough that is.

Thanks Quetzal! My youngest sister was pregnant at age 14... had the baby. For my other sister suicide was a battle. But thankful that today they are alive and well (of course we all have struggles)

Ahhh, great counter point. I didn't see that number of waiting couples. This gives me more hope! We need to make this process easier but we also need to be careful to screen applicants carefully. There is a balance to strike here.

Agreed!!!!

This is not to discredit your hard work (well done, by the way ), but when did this happen? The current economy makes this challenging, hence my support of expanding financial services to families getting started.

I guess that I am also in favor of helping or expanding financial services to those who need it to get started.

For comparison sake, I think it "might" be equal. I say might because I'm not in that situation any more.

But to give an example: Budget $3 a week for all medical expenses including dental (no dental help). $3 a week for all clothing. $3 a week for entertainment (beaches were free... hooray for beaches.

I remember when the fridge had an opened jar of mayo, ketchup and mustard... what's for dinner? Electric about to be shut off. So... maybe equal?

Regardless, I do support food stamps and supportive services.

One thought, however, the intangibles:

1. How we were happy regardless of the situation
2. How to be content with what one had
3. The learning how to give even when in need (We would tell the children, "you are going to a birthday party, pick out your nicest toy and wrap it up" which they gladly did.
4. The unity it provided in the middle of difficulty and how to work through it.

Do you think that sometimes if we never confront difficulty we actually hinder personal growth?

Great questions. I don't have answers but it's worth thinking about.

I agree, the great news is that this form of abortion is illegal (I think?). If it helps, it is also a considerable minority of cases:

Yes! I am glad it was addressed but imagine if it hadn't passed. But there are still 10 states that permit abortions up to birth. I don't see much difference.

Of course, at some point, my faith will bleed through. Hope, love and the value of life. I have a high premium on this. Also, the fact that you want to support these people group, I can see that you do too.

 

[Kooky]

Is it freedom for the innocent child in the womb or just kill it?

There is no innocent child in any womb at the time of legal abortion, so your question is just nonsensical. But even if we took your belief as valid, then you are still using it to justify the enslavement of women.

So, do you think your belief justifies the government forcing women, against their will, to carry pregnancies to term?

 

[Kenny]

I interpret the Bible and when you talk interpretation that means what did God mean when He said … The first prerequisite in understanding Scripture is by being taught by the Holy Spirit. That comes by repenting, receiving the Gospel and being born again. Until that happens I I believe people will have a skewed view of God and misinterpret Scripture.

I certainly found this to be true isn my life. It was amazing how any attempt for me to understand what I read was nil until I was born-again

 

[Kenny]

There is no innocent child in any womb at the time of legal abortion, so your question is just nonsensical. But even if we took your belief as valid, then you are still using it to justify the enslavement of women.

So, do you think your belief justifies the government forcing women, against their will, to carry pregnancies to term?

I'm sorry, but I just can't subscribe to your position and the exaggerations mentioned above.

The government forces somebody in any circumstance.

Can you give me a logical empirical and verifiable scientific point of when a fetus becomes a child?

 

[ElishaElijah]

There is no innocent child in any womb at the time of legal abortion, so your question is just nonsensical. But even if we took your belief as valid, then you are still using it to justify the enslavement of women.

So, do you think your belief justifies the government forcing women, against their will, to carry pregnancies to term?

I don’t think the federal government should be involved at all either for or against abortion. I don’t think government should be involved in any healthcare decisions, insurance, Obamacare, single payer or any of that. The Constitution should protect all citizens and especially innocent children in the womb and yes they are innocent.
And yes Trump has a pro life position and Clinton, Biden and the Democrats don’t and one of the reasons I voted for him.

 

[Kenny]

The point is that there are things in the Bible that the religious right misinterpret or downright ignore, then care about it when it suits them. At least be consistent.

But isn't that true of any people group?

 

[Kenny]

The part where you claim that Christians "do more for people in poverty than any other group."
Which would include any and all public service/welfare state programs, which are secular and therefore do not involve Christians as a group.

The government is not a people group. Christians are also in the government and are part of state programs. So do I include them in the Christian group?

 

[Sand Dancer]

Just to let you know, anyone who has been born of the Holy Spirit wouldn’t have a skewed view of God like you are communicating. This is why it’s false to say I accept Jesus and His message but not God the Father.
“Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.” Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.” Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves.”
‭‭John‬ ‭14:6-11‬ ‭NIV‬‬
“The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭1:15-20‬ ‭NIV‬‬
“The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭1:3‬ ‭NIV‬‬

I used to worship Yahweh, but people grow, change and learn. Religions are an individual thing and not a one-size-fits-all thing. He said that only in John, not the synoptics. I don't care much about the Bible anymore, but I do like the positive quotes from Jesus and the kickbutt safety net for the poor that they had in place and that the prophets stressed. Good stuff.

 

[Kooky]

I'm sorry, but I just can't subscribe to your position and the exaggerations mentioned above.

Of course you can't. That would require you to honestly evaluate my position, which you cannot do because that would introduce an actual moral dilemma.

Therefore, you can never acknowledge that you are in fact advocating for your government to force people into something against their will.

The government forces somebody in any circumstance.

And every time, it has to be justified. Which you, so far, have refused to do.

And I find this approach fundamentally dishonest. Why can't you lay all the cards on the table and honestly tell me that yes, you do believe that forcing a woman into labor against her will is in fact the best possible outcome you can think of when faced with the proposition of unwanted pregnancy?

At least then we can debate the relative merits of freedom vs. unborn fetuses. But your position right now is one where you refuse to even acknowledge that there is a side to this argument other than yours and Satan's.

Can you give me a logical empirical and verifiable scientific point of when a fetus becomes a child?

When it can survive outside the womb.

 

[Sand Dancer]

But isn't that true of any people group?

Yes, but they shouldn't hold themselves out as morally superior. No group should. We are all human.

 

[Kenny]

And therefore you want your government to force women to carry a child to term, enslaving their bodies for the sake of political ideology and some vague notion of "morality" that most cannot even articulate.

Is that the kind of "freedom" I hear Christian-fundamentalist Americans so frequently talking about? Literal forced labor?

Hmmm... that applies to just about anybody and everybody.

The government REQUIRES that you pay your taxes and enslaves the time our bodies have to produce to pay for it.
The government REQUIRES that we take care of our children... slave labor I tell you... SLAVE LABOR.
The government REQUIRES that if I make the honest mistake on my taxes I pay a penalty AND interest. UNTHINKABLE!

How about not putting a bandaid on a problem?

Wait, I just had a light bulb moment. Don't sow baby seeds so you don't get pregnant? Hmmmm.. innovative, organic, logical, out of the box thinking.

 

[Kooky]

The Constitution should protect all citizens and especially innocent children in the womb and yes they are innocent.

How do you think this would be accomplished without involving any form of government, and no force or violence of any sort against a woman who does not want to carry her pregnancy to term?

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

I have already. Yahweh stinks. I was a Christian for 28 years, 22 as an evangelical. I, like many, like Jesus and his message, but the Bible's portrayal of his god, is conflicted at best, and psychopathic at worst.

I share your sentiment here, Thirza Fallen. I was a Christian for 31 years, before I was honest enough with myself to admit that my personal belief in a "loving, merciful heavenly father" was a false hope that I needed to let go of. It was glaringly contradictory to the years of abuse and neglect I was subjected to as a child and teenager. I'm no longer convinced that God actually exists anymore, so I'm an agnostic now. But if God does exist, then I think he's a sadistic barbaric tyrannical monster, who gets a kick out of causing total chaos throughout the world (Isaiah 45:7, NIV; Isaiah 45:7, KJV), and then sits back and watches mankind tear itself apart from the inside out, and does nothing to stop it. There are an infinite amount of examples that I could post to validate this belief, but I think mentioning the Holocaust, where an estimated 6 million Jews were murdered by the Nazis, will suffice in proving my point.

 

[Kooky]

Hmmm... that applies to just about anybody and everybody.

The government REQUIRES that you pay your taxes and enslaves the time our bodies have to produce to pay for it.
The government REQUIRES that we take care of our children... slave labor I tell you... SLAVE LABOR.
The government REQUIRES that if I make the honest mistake on my taxes I pay a penalty AND interest. UNTHINKABLE!

How about not putting a bandaid on a problem?

Wait, I just had a light bulb moment. Don't sow baby seeds so you don't get pregnant? Hmmmm.. innovative, organic, logical, out of the box thinking.

Yes, I know, it's much easier to mock and dismiss any opposing thoughts rather than honestly confronting an argument.
That way, you don't have to actually think about what it is you're advocating, and you certainly aren't forced to properly evaluate your own position in light of your morality and ethics.

 

[Kenny]

Of course you can't. That would require you to honestly evaluate my position, which you cannot do because that would introduce an actual moral dilemma.

Therefore, you can never acknowledge that you are in fact advocating for your government to force people into something against their will.

LOL... stop clowning around

I have evaluated your position. Here it is.

Every law forces people to do something against somebody's will. I am sure you are not advocating no laws.

And every time, it has to be justified. Which you, so far, have refused to do.

???

Actually I have. You have refused to acknowledge it?

When it can survive outside the womb.

Empirical and verifiable.

Can you please name a baby that can cook, dress, feed itself and survive outside the womb?

 

[Kenny]

Yes, but they shouldn't hold themselves out as morally superior. No group should. We are all human.

And that is the "correct" Christian position.

 

[Kenny]

Yes, I know, it's much easier to mock and dismiss any opposing thoughts rather than honestly confronting an argument.
That way, you don't have to actually think about what it is you're advocating, and you certainly aren't forced to properly evaluate your own position in light of your morality and ethics.

Hmmm... ok, a great dodge. Then again, I presented an irrefutable and logical argument.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Romans 3
21 But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it— 22 the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. 26 It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

Obviously, one is made righteous by their faith, not by their acts.

It is true that with repentance just about all sin can be forgiven by God.
But unlike God we have no means of measuring either repentance or faith.
Both his words and actions would indicate quite the opposite
Trump seems to score very low indeed, on both counts.

 

[Sand Dancer]

I share your sentiment here, Thirza Fallen. I was a Christian for 31 years, before I was honest enough with myself to admit that my personal belief in a "loving, merciful heavenly father" was a false hope that I needed to let go of. It was glaringly contradictory to the years of abuse and neglect I was subjected to as a child and teenager. I'm no longer convinced that God actually exists anymore, so I'm an agnostic now. But if God does exist, then I think he's a sadistic barbaric tyrannical monster, who gets a kick out of causing total chaos throughout the world (Isaiah 45:7, NIV; Isaiah 45:7, KJV), and then sits back and watches mankind tear itself apart from the inside out, and does nothing to stop it. There are an infinite amount of examples that I could post to validate this belief, but I think mentioning the Holocaust, where an estimated 6 million Jews were murdered by the Nazis, will suffice in proving my point.

Agree, but sadly, I became a Christian as an adult and was raised in a more or less theist home. I was born again in 1987.