Christianity and secular music (rock, in particular)

[porkchop]

Not passing judgement, but most rock/metal groups, especially the extreme ones, are gimicks. Marilyn Manson and Slipknot are two of the biggest gimmicks thier are. Slipknot even swears it's not a gimmick. Ozzy wrote alot of the songs, if not all of them, while high on drugs. I don't find anything anti-christ like about them. Some songs are even anti-war. This is the last chorus of thier song Luke's Wall/War Pigs
Now in darkness world stops turning
As the war machine keeps burning
No more war pigs have the power
Hand of God has struck the hour
Day of judgment God is calling
On their knees, the war pigs crawling
Begging mercy for their sins
Satan laughing spreads his wings
Oh Lord yeah

They are clearly not gimmicks, Luke Wolf. Marilyn Manson is known to have taken over the place of Alastair Crowley/Anton Levay ( sorry, i get the two confused) when he died. He is openely opposed to christisanity; a satanist, rips up the Bible on stage, and not for a gimmick, he hates all that christianity stands for. As for slipknot, they blaspheme against the Holy Spirit in one of thier songs and they are so disgusting and imoral, it wouldnt matter if they or the likes of black sabbath sung anti war songs, their overall message is the same. Anti-Christ, anti-authority,immoral, and rebellion, these are not christian trates.

 

[RevOxley_501]

They are clearly not gimmicks, Luke Wolf. Marilyn Manson is known to have taken over the place of Alastair Crowley/Anton Levay ( sorry, i get the two confused) when he died. He is openely opposed to christisanity; a satanist, rips up the Bible on stage, and not for a gimmick, he hates all that christianity stands for. As for slipknot, they blaspheme against the Holy Spirit in one of thier songs and they are so disgusting and imoral, it wouldnt matter if they or the likes of black sabbath sung anti war songs, their overall message is the same. Anti-Christ, anti-authority,immoral, and rebellion, these are not christian trates.

Marilyn Manson wasnt alive to see crowley die, and he is ordained in the Church of Satan, he is not in the same position that Anton Szandor Lavey was--Anton's daughter, Zeta (right?) is now "president" over the society. Marilyn does not hate God, and is an athiest--- He hates hypocrisy, which is too often what Christianity stands for.

as for slipknot---i wont try to justify anything a band as crappy as that does

 

[porkchop]

The attack on Ozzy Osbourne/Black Sabbath was just that, an attack on the performer and not the music it self.

I'm not trying to attack anyone here, just pointing out what Ozzy and the whole group of B.S. believe in and stand for. And if someone didnt know much about them, they would only need to read their lyrics to give them an overall view.

Some Christians are stronger in their faith than others.

It's not about who's stronger in their faith and who isn't, it's about living your life as a witness to Christ, feeding and nourishing your spirit with rightous things that will help you to grow and mature in your walk with the Lord.

2Cor 6v14: Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

One of the more interesting things about this whole Ozzy attack is the fact that it was Suicide Solution by Ozzy Osbourne that woke me up and led to my getting ordained.[/

Ok.???????????????????

 

[RevOxley_501]

instead of reading this entire thread--im just gonna post the standards by which i judge the music i listen to:

My #1 rule is that the music actually be about SOMETHING---that means no brittany spears, or MTVesqe music. It can be secular as long as it has some sort of driving force behind it, other than capitalism.

IN GENERAL i listen to Hardcore, Metalcore, Metal, Rock, Classic Rock, and Punk---MOST of what i listen to happens to be "christian" or have some sort of recognizable christian message or portrayal.

I dont listen to music that is idle--i like political music--like Rage Against the Machine. Zao's newest album-The Fear is what keeps us here (TFIWKUH) has a few political songs

I like angry music, music about relationships, music about the harshness of life (like Zao's albums- like Liberate te ex Infernis, Self-Titled, Parade of Chaos etc) The depravity and utter helplessness of man (like MewithoutYou's albums), and music that makes observations about life

If it is about nothing--IE: money and material possessions, i generally will not or do not listen to it.

i feel this approach is best because it doesnt close me off to good music, it just keeps me from listening to music that sucks---and prompts me to think---i listen to music with curse words because i curse alot and ifeel they are neccessary to convey feelings.

and in the case of marilyn manson---i like him--i like the things he says--he is smart and he tells alot of truths about society. I have said it many times, any person who can say Anton Lavey or his followers are evil should first read the introduction to the Satanic Bible--then repent for their own creation of satanism

 

[porkchop]

Marilyn Manson wasnt alive to see crowley die, and he is ordained in the Church of Satan, he is not in the same position that Anton Szandor Lavey was--Anton's daughter, Zeta (right?) is now "president" over the society. Marilyn does not hate God, and is an athiest--- He hates hypocrisy, which is too often what Christianity stands for.

as for slipknot---i wont try to justify anything a band as crappy as that does

Thanks for the correction, but i read that he was intending to take over Anton Laveys position, mabe it never came to pass. I disagree with you bout M.M. not hating God, its as clear as the sky is blue!
I too hate hypocrisy, so there are some christians that dont stand for it, although i know its become one of those excuses for non believers not to go to church or find out about God, because of hypocrisy; its sad its in the church, but its everywhere, and its a lame excuse as if you look to God you will see no hypocrisy there. ( sorry to go off subject a bit).

Yeah, slipknot suck.

 

[RevOxley_501]

Thanks for the correction, but i read that he was intending to take over Anton Laveys position, mabe it never came to pass. I disagree with you bout M.M. not hating God, its as clear as the sky is blue!
I too hate hypocrisy, so there are some christians that dont stand for it, although i know its become one of those excuses for non believers not to go to church or find out about God, because of hypocrisy; its sad its in the church, but its everywhere, and its a lame excuse as if you look to God you will see no hypocrisy there. ( sorry to go off subject a bit).

Yeah, slipknot suck.

MM has no intent to do that---never has either---he is probably just as sick at the COS as most satanist's are.

 

[MaddLlama]

I have read them, thankyou for the imput, MaddLlama.

Would you mind answering some of my questions?

 

[porkchop]

and in the case of marilyn manson---i like him--i like the things he says--he is smart and he tells alot of truths about society. I have said it many times, any person who can say Anton Lavey or his followers are evil should first read the introduction to the Satanic Bible--then repent for their own creation of satanism

Im so sad to hear this,Rev Oxley, i can not understand why someone who proclaims to be a christian would want to listen to angry or blasphemous music. Why would you wanna listen to that? Yes, i know, it evokes emotion, you like something with substance; i get it, sometimes i miss the old stuff i used to listen to, because other than the Hymns i have, i dont find that chart music or C.C.M. has much substance to it, or a good tune, but i don't wanna sing along to stuff that will make me feel sad, angry,or causes me to sin; i.e. blasphemous,immoral lyrics and cuss words (mind you, id prefer the cuss words to blasphemy). Some secular music out there is ok, ive found, without having to listen to all the above listed.
Though i do understand how hard it can be to break away from it. I wiil certainly pray for you, R.O. Thanks for your honest oppinions.

 

[porkchop]

Would you mind answering some of my questions?

Sure, are there any perticular ones?

 

[porkchop]

MM has no intent to do that---never has either---he is probably just as sick at the COS as most satanist's are.

Sorry, what does COS mean?

 

[RevOxley_501]

Im so sad to hear this,Rev Oxley, i can not understand why someone who proclaims to be a christian would want to listen to angry or blasphemous music. Why would you wanna listen to that? Yes, i know, it evokes emotion, you like something with substance; i get it, sometimes i miss the old stuff i used to listen to, because other than the Hymns i have, i dont find that chart music or C.C.M. has much substance to it, or a good tune, but i don't wanna sing along to stuff that will make me feel sad, angry,or causes me to sin; i.e. blasphemous,immoral lyrics and cuss words (mind you, id prefer the cuss words to blasphemy). Some secular music out there is ok, ive found, without having to listen to all the above listed.
Though i do understand how hard it can be to break away from it. I wiil certainly pray for you, R.O. Thanks for your honest oppinions.

its a little more complex than shielding yourself from "scary evil things"

i have been studying the occult for 7 years , and dealing with darkness most people will never experience---so the things MM say not only make sense to me, they seem rather light hearted. I agree with MM on a lot of things---i dont actively listen to much of his music---i dont own any of his CD's---he is still a corporate media whore---no matter who he is.---i just think he is intelligent, articulate, and respectable---his disgust of the Bible is your responsibility just like it is mine---his music isnt the problem, the lyrics are hints at the solution.


honestly stimpy, i think you might be looking at far too many forwarded emails about proctor and gambles conspiracy to give money from your purchases of dawn to the church of satan and such like that---i keep seeing you report things that have been falsified

 

[porkchop]

Marilyn Manson is actually a very intelligent and eloquent man, which is something that not a lot of people ever realise about him. He is doing what every other shock rocker does, giving the people what they want. He does it because it keeps him in the limelight and gets his albums sold. If you actually listen to some of his interviews, you'd be surprised that he hints to being a completely different person than both the media, and even he, portrays himself as. Feel free to criticise Manson, but first read up on him, and don't believe all the hype about him, because it's as artificial as Bubblegum Pop.

Intelligent he may be,but he is still a very evil man, and i have read alot about him, even used to like his music ( Yuk!!!), so im not just some biased christian, ive done my homework. I really dont want this debate to turn into a defending match over M.M., he's not really worth the space, and im not just talking bout his music, its a bit too obvious .

 

[RevOxley_501]

Intelligent he may be,but he is still a very evil man, and i have read alot about him, even used to like his music ( Yuk!!!), so im not just some biased christian, ive done my homework. I really dont want this debate to turn into a defending match over M.M., he's not really worth the space, and im not just talking bout his music, its a bit too obvious .

the things you have read seem to be invalid though---you were mislead in your studies

 

[porkchop]

its a little more complex than shielding yourself from "scary evil things"

It's not about that.

i have been studying the occult for 7 years , and dealing with darkness most people will never experience---so the things MM say not only make sense to me, they seem rather light hearted. I agree with MM on a lot of things---i dont actively listen to much of his music---i dont own any of his CD's---he is still a corporate media whore---no matter who he is.---i just think he is intelligent, articulate, and respectable---his disgust of the Bible is your responsibility just like it is mine---his music isnt the problem, the lyrics are hints at the solution.

Err, How exactly??

honestly stimpy, i think you might be looking at far too many forwarded emails about proctor and gambles conspiracy to give money from your purchases of dawn to the church of satan and such like that---i keep seeing you report things that have been falsified

I have no idea what your on about, apart from the bit about me saying things that are false, which i dont believe i have, you corrected me on one thing, i said thanks, is that it?

 

[porkchop]

That's fair enough. I just hope you realize that there is a difference between an act and the person who is playing the part. After all, heaven forbid you think that Anthony Hopkins is trully a cannibal, just because he played one in the movies.

Thankyou for the insite.

 

[porkchop]

the things you have read seem to be invalid though---you were mislead in your studies

Your oppinion.

 

[RevOxley_501]

Sorry, what does COS mean?

Church of Satan

 

[RevOxley_501]

Your oppinion.

it is not opinion--your facts are incorrect

 

[MaddLlama]

Repeating my questions: (and I'll italicize the actual questions so you don't mss them)

What exactly is satanic about rock music in general? The fact that it deals with real world and ugly issues that we'd rather not have to think about? You said you don't like Christian rock music either, so, is it the lyrics, or is it the instruments and how they are being played?
I don't get why some people have issues with CCM.....people want to listen to modern music, and you'd think Christians would be happy that they have modern sounding music with "Christian-enriching" lyrics. What's the problem with that? If Christians shouldn't be listening to music that is supposed to "glorify god", then what should they be listening to?

And, also not all rock music has lyrics that are about negative experiences or emotions. Plenty of rock deal with positive feelings and things.
Is all rock music bad, or only the ones with profanity, lyrics that mention sex, or anything that that even hints that they don't believe in God? And, if it's all bad, can you tell me what's wrong with positive or even neutral emotions being expressed through non-classical music?

Sometimes music is just about entertainment. We get entertainment from a lot of things, including music, television and movies. Only the weak minded imitate what they see and hear in music and in TV and film. Some of my good friends love horror movies. None of them have killed anybody or even become slightly violent. Just like rock music doesn't make people satanists or atheists. Life experience and choice does that. Do you think that nobody should be entertained?

 

[RevOxley_501]

It's not about that.

maybe not

Err, How exactly??

because you and i have both been hypocrites---we have both said stupid things---we have both judged others---i can guarantee it---and it is these things that plant the seed of athiesm and disgust for xtianity

I have no idea what your on about, apart from the bit about me saying things that are false, which i dont believe i have, you corrected me on one thing, i said thanks, is that it?

you said he was evil---which you can not know