Guitar's Cry
Disciple of Pan
I blame the false Scotsmen.
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I blame the false Scotsmen.
A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
A tasty red herring.
I blame the Republicans.
I blame the Republicans.
So there have been what, 5 "True" Christians in the 2000 year history of the religion then?
The problem with claiming that "True christians would never and have never persecuted anyone" is that you have no way to identify "true" chrisitans from "not-true" christians. When it comes to claiming to be a major world religion you of course claim ALL people purporting to be christian. When those members do something reprehensible you of course fall back on the NO-True-Scotsman fallacy and quickly shed yourself of those christians acting in accordance with the religion whose actions you disagree with. Sorry, you can't have it both ways. Either everyone who claims christianity is christian, or you need to provide a list of names of "True" christians. I imagine that the list of names would be very short.
Surely you are not saying the thousands of conflicting sects calling themselves "Christian" are all genuine christians? Christ teachings are the basis for determining who is and who is not a true Christian. The first century Christian congregation set the pattern for true Christians to follow. For example, Christ and his followers rejected war and violence. (Matthew 26:51-53, 1 John 3:10-12) How many so-called Christian faiths do that?
A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
Look up the "No True Scotsman" logical fallacy on wiki.
"True Christians" have much more in common with "apostates" than with the first century Christians.
A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
None. Zero. Zip. Nada.
The only similarity between us and the early church is that one church always thinks that they are doing / believing something better than their sister.
Otherwise it may as well have been written for people living on Jupiter.
I assume you are responding to the question concerning how many Christian churches reject war and violence. If so, you are, of course, mistaken....
A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
I didn't say anything of the sort, and I can't imagine where you got that.
From here:
Quote:
Originally Posted by rusra02
How many so-called Christian faiths do that?
None. Zero. Zip. Nada.
The only similarity between us and the early church is that one church always thinks that they are doing / believing something better than their sister.
Otherwise it may as well have been written for people living on Jupiter.
logician
Well-Known Member
gnostic
The Lost One
If we were to compare Christianity to other religions of the day that were contemporary to much of the 1st century CE, you would find that the "pagan" religions were far from irreligious.
As to uneducated and hillbillies, the Greeks and Roman were far more advanced in their learning. If you look at the backgrounds of majority of early Christian disciples were mostly illiterate different trades, like shepherds, fishermen, carpenters, etc, hardly what I call scholars. Paul, Luke and Matthew were most likely men of letters. Don't know much about Mark.
You could not say that Jesus' ministry was that of city religion, because he wandered through village to village, town to town. Paul concentrated his ministry on the Greek or Hellenistic cities of the Mediterranean.
I do agree with you here, that Christianity is a byproduct religion of not just Judaism, but of Babylonian/Chaldean, Persian, and the Hellenistic Egyptian and Greek/Macedonian religions prior to Jesus' and Paul's ministry.
Earlier Judaism have no concept of putting names to angels and demons (or more precisely evil spirits), and certainly no angelic hierarchy. No concept of afterlife in heaven, or even that punishment in hell.
Death and rebirth of god (or in the Christian case, the Messiah) is not unique in Christianity, especially when you consider these foreign religions, like Dumuzi, the Ugaritic Baal, the Egyptian Re(Ra), Osiris and Horus, Persephone, the Orphic Dionysus, all known and well-documented through their myths.
So from Judaic point of view, then yes, Christianity is about foreign and pagan to their own religion (Judaism).
And when you consider the history of Judaism through the Hebrew scriptures, you would see sometimes the ancient Israelites would sometimes choose to follow the religion of their neighbors, and when they decide to rejoin Judaism, they did so sometime violently, destroying the pagan religions. So does it surprise you that some Jews who did not understand Jesus' foreign teaching, had him crucified.
But history have the tendency to repeat itself. Where Israelites caused destruction of other religions, eg destroying idols, once Christians began gaining political powers, they were the ones to decide destroy other religions, temples and burning books. Jesus' teaching of compassion and not persecuting others were no longer heeded.
As to uneducated and hillbillies, the Greeks and Roman were far more advanced in their learning. If you look at the backgrounds of majority of early Christian disciples were mostly illiterate different trades, like shepherds, fishermen, carpenters, etc, hardly what I call scholars. Paul, Luke and Matthew were most likely men of letters. Don't know much about Mark.
You could not say that Jesus' ministry was that of city religion, because he wandered through village to village, town to town. Paul concentrated his ministry on the Greek or Hellenistic cities of the Mediterranean.
angellous_evangellous said:
I do agree with you here, that Christianity is a byproduct religion of not just Judaism, but of Babylonian/Chaldean, Persian, and the Hellenistic Egyptian and Greek/Macedonian religions prior to Jesus' and Paul's ministry.
Earlier Judaism have no concept of putting names to angels and demons (or more precisely evil spirits), and certainly no angelic hierarchy. No concept of afterlife in heaven, or even that punishment in hell.
Death and rebirth of god (or in the Christian case, the Messiah) is not unique in Christianity, especially when you consider these foreign religions, like Dumuzi, the Ugaritic Baal, the Egyptian Re(Ra), Osiris and Horus, Persephone, the Orphic Dionysus, all known and well-documented through their myths.
So from Judaic point of view, then yes, Christianity is about foreign and pagan to their own religion (Judaism).
And when you consider the history of Judaism through the Hebrew scriptures, you would see sometimes the ancient Israelites would sometimes choose to follow the religion of their neighbors, and when they decide to rejoin Judaism, they did so sometime violently, destroying the pagan religions. So does it surprise you that some Jews who did not understand Jesus' foreign teaching, had him crucified.
But history have the tendency to repeat itself. Where Israelites caused destruction of other religions, eg destroying idols, once Christians began gaining political powers, they were the ones to decide destroy other religions, temples and burning books. Jesus' teaching of compassion and not persecuting others were no longer heeded.
A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
*kicks can*
Christian Gnosis
Active Member
Christian Gnosis
Active Member
Now I think it's "Onward Christian Soldiers".
Only for those still following the war god
Christian Gnosis
Active Member
paolops181
God rules!
What is your basis of your beliefs?
That's just your own opinion. who were the ones to be first called christians?
A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
Christian Gnosis
Active Member
Tell us all knowing one.
A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
paolops181
God rules!
I ask you first