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Christianity is Judaism-lite?

Rainbow Mage

Lib Democrat/Agnostic/Epicurean-ish/Buddhist-ish
This came up in my rise of Christianity thread, which I want to keep on track. Someone made a insinuation that Christianity is Judaism-lite.

How is it hardly comparable? My understanding is that the two view God entirely differently, and many other unJewish ideas that many churches hold.

Judaism-lite? Really?
 

ChristineES

Tiggerism
Premium Member
It's true. It started out Judaism to the Apostles- they never stopped being Jews- but Paul spread the Gospel outside of that, and it became it's own religion. I am not sure if that is what Jesus intended or not, though.
 

Rainbow Mage

Lib Democrat/Agnostic/Epicurean-ish/Buddhist-ish
It's true. It started out Judaism to the Apostles- they never stopped being Jews- but Paul spread the Gospel outside of that, and it became it's own religion. I am not sure if that is what Jesus intended or not, though.

I guess I understand what you mean. Christianity is far from anything Jewish now though, or at least mainstream Orthodoxy is.
 

jasonwill2

Well-Known Member
This came up in my rise of Christianity thread, which I want to keep on track. Someone made a insinuation that Christianity is Judaism-lite. Judaism-lite? Really?

I've started studying Judauism to better understand it very recently (both books and online), and I can say that it is much more different than Christianity than one would initially think. I think Christianity is more like a really reinterpretation and twisting of Jewish Scriptures. Oh, with lots of retroactive continuity and adding stuff. At least when you compare the harder forms of Christian Protestantism with Judauism. I don't know that I can say the same of the liberal churches and Catholicism per se though, but there is still a lot of retroactive stuff there too.

It's true. It started out Judaism to the Apostles- they never stopped being Jews- but Paul spread the Gospel outside of that, and it became it's own religion. I am not sure if that is what Jesus intended or not, though.

LOL. They were Jewish in terms of their identity as people from the land of Israel, in opposition to the Roman Empire that then owned the providence. They probably considered themselves as fulfilling some prophecy, but none-the-less not Jews in religious sense, at least not after the Resurrection. (though I could be wrong on what they considered themselves).

Most people probably saw them as a cult in it's first days, which isn't incorrect in the annotative meaning, despite the more modern and recent connotations added to the word "cult" lately. Cult just means a young and/or small religion.

Also what about all the Gnostic sects? Were they Jewish too?
 
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fallingblood

Agnostic Theist
I believe that I was the one who used the term. It was specifically in reference to Christianity at that time (or the new movement that would later be called Christianity).

I think the term works as we had a religion that started out as Jewish, but the biggest change in the original movement was in regards to circumcision and dietary laws. The new movement got rid of those, and came something similar to a lite version of Judaism.

That obviously changes later on.
 

F0uad

Well-Known Member
I don't think ''Christianity'' started with Jewish people at all i think it started within the gentiles. Jesus(p) was a Hebrew who upheld the laws and warned people if they broke any law they would suffer in the here-after. Claiming that Christianity is a lite-mode of Judaism is a laughable i don't see any comparison even in the same scriptures there are major disagreements on the interpretations and teachings. Lets not forget the fact that almost any basic ''Christian'' teaching we have now would be punished by death according to original Laws.
 
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jasonwill2

Well-Known Member
I don't think ''Christianity'' started with Jewish people at all i think it started within the gentiles. Jesus(p) was a Hebrew who upheld the laws and warned people if they broke any law they would suffer in the here-after. Claiming that Christianity is a lite-mode of Judaism is a laughable i don't see any comparison even in the same scriptures there are major disagreements on the interpretations and teachings. Lets not forget the fact that almost any basic ''Christian'' teaching we have now would be punished by death according to original Laws.

All the founders were Jewish, Jesus and the 12 apostles. Don't know about Paul though.
 

Caladan

Agnostic Pantheist
While I agree that there is a difference between what can be referred to as Paul's Christianity and James' Jerusalem based messianic Christianity which stressed Jewish practices, I think that any converts to Christianity at the time knew they were making a big sacrifice and they must have had convictions, perhaps ideals, and an understanding of the fundamentals of the faith.
 

Wannabe Yogi

Well-Known Member
This came up in my rise of Christianity thread, which I want to keep on track. Someone made a insinuation that Christianity is Judaism-lite.

How is it hardly comparable? My understanding is that the two view God entirely differently, and many other unJewish ideas that many churches hold.

Judaism-lite? Really?

Sometimes I feel that the comments RF threads vastly underestimates the influence of Greek thought on early Christianity. The Christian theologian Augustine (the most imporatant Christian Theologian in the West) owes much of his Theology to Neoplatonism.
 

F0uad

Well-Known Member
All the founders were Jewish, Jesus and the 12 apostles. Don't know about Paul though.

I don't consider the companions/disciples being ''Christianity'' followers but ''Christians''.

There is a huge difference between Christianity and Christian. A Christian simply means one who follows the Christ, Christianity (was a new religion).
 

jasonwill2

Well-Known Member
I don't consider the companions/disciples being ''Christianity'' followers but ''Christians''.

There is a huge difference between Christianity and Christian. A Christian simply means one who follows the Christ, Christianity (was a new religion).

Funny then that Christianity has the suffix -ity after the word Christian, meaning the religion of Christians.
 

jasonwill2

Well-Known Member
Sometimes I feel that the comments RF threads vastly underestimates the influence of Greek thought on early Christianity. The Christian theologian Augustine (the most imporatant Christian Theologian in the West) owes much of his Theology to Neoplatonism.

I've heard this before, and I can see what is meant by this, there is more Greek thought in Christianity even today than people realize.

edit: double post, my bad. i try to avoid doing that.
 

Shermana

Heretic
Funny then that Christianity has the suffix -ity after the word Christian, meaning the religion of Christians.

This is why I advocate that orthodox "Christians" should always be hyphenated and no longer referred to as "Christians", as if they own the term itself. They should only ever be addressed as "Pauline-Christians" or "Orthodox" or "Protestant/Lutheran-Christian", to simply call them "Christian" without a hyphenation is to give them and their beliefs a respect and concession that they don't deserve.

In a way, we do this with Islam quite often, often calling them "Sunnis" and "Shia" by their divisions rather than just saying "Muslims". Why do this for Islam but not for "Christianity"?
 
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jasonwill2

Well-Known Member
This is why I advocate that orthodox "Christians" should always be hyphenated and no longer referred to as "Christians", as if they own the term itself. They should only ever be addressed as "Pauline-Christians" or "Orthodox" or "Protestant/Lutheran-Christian", to simply call them "Christian" without a hyphenation is to give them and their beliefs a respect and concession that they don't deserve.

In a way, we do this with Islam quite often, often calling them "Sunnis" and "Shia" by their divisions rather than just saying "Muslims". Why do this for Islam but not for "Christianity"?

How do you suggest we pronounce "Christ-ians"?
 

fallingblood

Agnostic Theist
I don't think ''Christianity'' started with Jewish people at all i think it started within the gentiles. Jesus(p) was a Hebrew who upheld the laws and warned people if they broke any law they would suffer in the here-after. Claiming that Christianity is a lite-mode of Judaism is a laughable i don't see any comparison even in the same scriptures there are major disagreements on the interpretations and teachings. Lets not forget the fact that almost any basic ''Christian'' teaching we have now would be punished by death according to original Laws.
Jesus and the original disciples and followers were Jews. Jesus preached a Jewish message, to a Jewish audience. After he died, it appears as if Peter, John (two disciples) and James (the brother of Jesus), who were all Jews, continued the mission. Paul, who was also a Jew (he may not have been the best Jew, but that is a debate for another thread), brought this same message (and he relies quite heavily on the Hebrew Bible (or the Greek translation of it) for his message as well.

Paul simply takes the message to another group, one that was already interested in Judaism (God-fearers, who many actually practiced Judaism, but hadn't converted, primarily because of concerns over circumcision which was seen as a beastly procedure to them). The "gospel" the Paul preached was still centered around Judaism, had it's roots in Judaism, and was still officially under Judaism. However, he took out some of the major problems that Gentiles had in regards to Judaism, the primary one being circumcision.

So I think the title, Judaism-lite is quite accurate. Caladan does point out something very important though, that Christianity still was a big sacrifice.





As a note, I think the original statement that motivated this thread would have been very helpful, as it would have put the statement into context. Christianity has definitely changed since when it first was started. It is a very different religion, as nearly any modern religion is when compared to the ancient forms. However, at the earliest time, and the context of the statement did imply when Christianity was first forming. To take such a statement and put it into another context simply doesn't work.



Shermana said:
This is why I advocate that orthodox "Christians" should always be hyphenated and no longer referred to as "Christians", as if they own the term itself. They should only ever be addressed as "Pauline-Christians" or "Orthodox" or "Protestant/Lutheran-Christian", to simply call them "Christian" without a hyphenation is to give them and their beliefs a respect and concession that they don't deserve.

In a way, we do this with Islam quite often, often calling them "Sunnis" and "Shia" by their divisions rather than just saying "Muslims". Why do this for Islam but not for "Christianity"?
Most actually do such for Christianity. They use Christian only in the broadest way and usually qualify it with a more specific idea. That is unless they don't take on any actual denomination, and follow Christianity in the broadest form.

At the basic foundation though, Christianity does follow the basic teachings of Jesus. However, Jesus didn't teach much. We don't have this excess of religious teachings from Jesus, as he didn't have a long ministry. His ministry was rather short, and he did not address many issues that became relevant later on. Thus, there was a need to add new teachings. When Paul did it, many of his teachings reflected his Judaism. Yes, there was later Hellenistic and various other influences, but we even see that with Jesus to a lesser extent.

I really see no problem with calling them Christian though. They are trying to be Christ like. Sure, they may not agree with your form of being Christ-like; however, I see no reason to assume you have a monopoly on such ideas.
 

Trey of Diamonds

Well-Known Member
Modern day Christianity is a Romanization of Paul's version of Judaism. While Protestant denominations are an attempt to de-Romanize Christianity they came far to late to do more than create another layer on top.
 
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