Christianity Is Only Popular Because Of Its Idle Threats

[74x12]

False, I can demonstrate both reason and empathy. You appear to have nothing. Your version of "God" is easily refuted. You believe in a self contradicting God, he cannot exist.

I can justify my claims, you don't appear to be able to justify your beliefs.

You've demonstrated nothing so far; refuted nothing.

By what objective moral standard do you justify the claim that my God is immoral?

 

[Bathos Logos]

Do all you people come come from Bible bashing hellfire and brimestone backwater churches or something or an area where these people are the norm and constantly in your face? If so, I'm sorry for you, but it's your experiences that aren't the norm, not mine.

I too live in Midwest U.S. I think I saw you write that that's where you hail from.

JWs who came to the door, very young. First thing out of their mouths was asking if I knew where I'd end up when I died. As soon as I told them "No, and I don't believe that you know either." I was read the "hell" riot act.

I've spoken with several Christians who shun many mainstream churches (too much coffee shop flair, I think), or have been shunned by such churches (a little too "second coming" flair in at least one of those people's demeanor, I think), and they insisted that hell is real, and that I am going there based on my nonbelief.

On this very site there are plenty of posts that amount to Pascal's Wager type veiled threats. "What if you're wrong?"

How about mainstream churches in my area putting up signs about how hot hell is? Admonishing that one had better know where they will end up in the afterlife, etc. Even those little marquees outside of the church - those innocent little, non-sentient signs - are made to be in on it. Sometimes even stated like it's a big joke that Christians should be laughing about, relating the heat to fireworks in July, or stating that as cold as winter is in Dec., Jan., Feb., that one should rather be in that than in "the fires". All those foolish "sinners" burning in hell. I don't find such humor very funny.

My own mother-in-law and father-in-law, at least early on, were very keen on trying to get me to accept Jesus as my savior. When that didn't work, they would start to talk about hell, ask wasn't I frightened, etc. Mind you, these were people that did attend those coffee-shop-style churches avidly, and within the church walls one would never, ever hear them speaking about hell. There was no reason - they were among like-minded individuals. All Christians. I am the type of person they reserved that talk for. A nonbeliever. Which is why I don't think it matters much whether you think that your experiences are some kind of "norm". Perhaps the norm when pal'ing around with other Christians. You aren't like me. You don't say the types of things I am apt to say to Christians, and so you don't get the kinds of responses that I do. A sort of "Christian privilege", I suppose. Allows your glasses' tint to remain of the rose-colored variety.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You've demonstrated nothing so far; refuted nothing.

By what objective moral standard do you justify the claim that my God is immoral?

First define what you mean by "objective standards". Do you seriously think that you have objective standards? You can't if you base them on a belief in God.

 

[ppp]

Do all you people come come from Bible bashing hellfire and brimestone backwater churches or something or an area where these people are the norm and constantly in your face? If so, I'm sorry for you, but it's your experiences that aren't the norm, not mine.

What makes you think that all we people don't come from all over? Or that we have no experiences beyond where we "come from"? Most Christian denominations in the US subscribe to a doctrine of Hell. And most Christians in the US (60%) believe in Hell.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I too live in Midwest U.S. I think I saw you write that that's where you hail from.

JWs who came to the door, very young. First thing out of their mouths was asking if I knew where I'd end up when I died. As soon as I told them "No, and I don't believe that you know either." I was read the "hell" riot act.

I've spoken with several Christians who shun many mainstream churches (too much coffee shop flair, I think), or have been shunned by such churches (a little too "second coming" flair in at least one of those people's demeanor, I think), and they insisted that hell is real, and that I am going there based on my nonbelief.

On this very site there are plenty of posts that amount to Pascal's Wager type veiled threats. "What if you're wrong?"

How about mainstream churches in my area putting up signs about how hot hell is? Admonishing that one had better know where they will end up in the afterlife, etc. Even those little marquees outside of the church - those innocent little, non-sentient signs - are made to be in on it. Sometimes even stated like it's a big joke that Christians should be laughing about, relating the heat to fireworks in July, or stating that as cold as winter is in Dec., Jan., Feb., that one should rather be in that than in "the fires". All those foolish "sinners" burning in hell. I don't find such humor very funny.

My own mother-in-law and father-in-law, at least early on, were very keen on trying to get me to accept Jesus as my savior. When that didn't work, they would start to talk about hell, ask wasn't I frightened, etc. Mind you, these were people that did attend those coffee-shop-style churches avidly, and within the church walls one would never, ever hear them speaking about hell. There was no reason - they were among like-minded individuals. All Christians. I am the type of person they reserved that talk for. A nonbeliever. Which is why I don't think it matters much whether you think that your experiences are some kind of "norm". Perhaps the norm when pal'ing around with other Christians. You aren't like me. You don't say the types of things I am apt to say to Christians, and so you don't get the kinds of responses that I do. A sort of "Christian privilege", I suppose. Allows your glasses' tint to remain of the rose-colored variety.

I think you don't know much about me and shouldn't assume what my experiences are.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

What makes you think that all we people don't come from all over? Or that we have no experiences beyond where we "come from"? Most Christian denominations in the US subscribe to a doctrine of Hell. And most Christians in the US (60%) believe in Hell.

People sure are fine assuming things about me in this thread, so I just return the favor.

 

[ppp]

People sure are fine assuming things about me in this thread, so I just return the favor.

What did I assume about you? Or are you just shot-gunning your ire into the crowd?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

What did I assume about you? Or are you just shot-gunning your ire into the crowd?

You need to take a chill pill. No one has any "ire". How dramatic.

 

[ppp]

People sure are fine assuming things about me in this thread, so I just return the favor.

You need to take a chill pill. No one has any "ire". How dramatic.

I far as I can tell, I have done no assuming about you. Yet you think it is appropriate to retaliate return the favor on me. Indiscriminate "[returniing] the favor" is a poor policy for one concerned with morality.

 

[Psalm23]

What makes you think that all we people don't come from all over? Or that we have no experiences beyond where we "come from"? Most Christian denominations in the US subscribe to a doctrine of Hell. And most Christians in the US (60%) believe in Hell.

I understand there are different versions of hell that Christians believe in. Fire and brimstone is one version believed. A person in my family sees it like a jail. Where do you get 60 percent from? Is this from a recent survey?

 

[74x12]

First define what you mean by "objective standards". Do you seriously think that you have objective standards? You can't if you base them on a belief in God.

You don't have an objective moral standard. All you have is your own opinion; apparently based on the faulty premise that you're infallible. Because that is what is implied.

Even though you appeal to something greater yourself ... namely reason and empathy. I am not convinced that you really understand those concepts as well as you should in order to make your claim.

My objective moral standard is God. You seem to be your own god. So I don't really put much faith in your god over my God.

 

[ppp]

I understand there are different versions of hell that Christians believe in. Fire and brimstone is one version believed. A person in my family sees it like a jail. Where do you get 60 percent from? Is this from a recent survey?

Two different PEW polls. One from 2017 and one from 2021. IIRC, that is down from about 71% in 2000.

Heaven and Hell: Americans Answer 20 Questions on Who Goes and What Happens

Yet when it comes to the actual hell and heaven, in the same survey Pew found “many Americans believe in an afterlife where suffering either ends entirely or continues in perpetuity.”

Pew surveyed 6,485 American adults—including 1,421 evangelicals—in September 2021 about the afterlife, specifically their views on heaven, hell, reincarnation, fate, prayer, and other metaphysical matters.

Today 73 percent of Americans believe in heaven while 62 percent believe in hell, similar to 2017 when Pew last asked the questions.

 

[ppp]

You don't have an objective moral standard.

He asked you to define "objective moral standard". Perhaps you should start by defining "objective".

 

[Shadow Wolf]

You don't have an objective moral standard. All you have is your own opinion; apparently based on the faulty premise that you're infallible.

Is it really wise in this thread to open about your opinion about atheists not having a good sense of morality? Is it ever wise to make such an assumption as that "infallible" claim?
People are airing grievances against Christianity in this thread, and that attitude frequently comes up in such discussions.

 

[vulcanlogician]

I've seen all kinds of Christians. Growing up I came into a lot of contact with the "judgy, negative" type of Christians. So, I'm pretty sure they account for a large number of them. (Who knows what the percentages are?)

I've also met plenty of compassionate Christians. Even fundamentalists can be like that sometimes. There are even plenty of intellectually honest Christians out there. So they come in all shapes and sizes.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You don't have an objective moral standard. All you have is your own opinion; apparently based on the faulty premise that you're infallible. Because that is what is implied.

Even though you appeal to something greater yourself ... namely reason and empathy. I am not convinced that you really understand those concepts as well as you should in order to make your claim.

My objective moral standard is God. You seem to be your own god. So I don't really put much faith in your god over my God.

You don't have an objective moral standard either which made your earlier demand hypocrti9cal to say the least. But my moral standard is almost certainly better than yours. Morality is not that hard to understand. Biblical morality is of very low quality. Secular morality beats it all hollow.

And why the false accusation? One does not need to be anything close to infallible to beat biblical morality.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Is it really wise in this thread to open about your opinion about atheists not having a good sense of morality? Is it ever wise to make such an assumption as that "infallible" claim?
People are airing grievances against Christianity in this thread, and that attitude frequently comes up in such discussions.

It is called projection. They believe that they have an infallible source so they think that anyone that argues against them has to believe the same.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Take it from a current, practicing Christian--most churches I've visited/seen/attended talk almost nil about Hell and judgment--***STAFF EDIT*** Evangelicals talk mostly about meaning and purpose in this life--though that detracts from gospel witnessing.

Then they ask for money.

 

[RestlessSoul]

It is called projection. They believe that they have an infallible source so they think that anyone that argues against them has to believe the same.

“They”? Who are “they”, and how are you qualified to speak for them?

 

[InChrist]

Can you tell me why you believe in an immoral God?

I’d say 74x12 doesn’t believe in an immoral God. Likely believes in a Holy God. I believe in the Holy God, as revealed in the biblical scriptures.