IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Saying a human wrote a book is NOT a complicated explanation. Try again.
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Christianity vs Islam
- Thread starter Jimmy
- Start date
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
How would you explain all the Latter Day Saints that believe Joseph Smith's story that an angel sent him to dig up some gold tablets which he could transcribe if he wore magic glasses?
muhammad_isa
Veteran Member
Deflection .. that is another issue.
One can ask about other prophets/religions, but let's stick to Islam .. right?
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Not sure what you are asking here. If you want to make a remark about another religion, please go ahead.Deflection .. that is another issue.
One can ask about other prophets/religions, but let's stick to Islam .. right?
muhammad_isa
Veteran Member
Your reply to the question why billions of people believe that Muhammad had revelations from
the One Abrahamic God, was to change the topic to Mormons.
..which is insignificant in comparison.
It’s more complicated. If I write a book today I’m a prophet and that my offspring will take my leadership and that both I and those who take leadership from my offspring are capable of performing miracles - if either I or none of my offspring perform miracles it’s a problem. The book will be deemed false by people. There needs to big explanation if people accept the book with regards to miracles.Saying a human wrote a book is NOT a complicated explanation. Try again.
Either I performed there or there was a massive conspiracy of false testimony to miracles but if it’s one person that’s understandable. But if I set it up that many generations of my offspring say 9 have to do such miracles and they don’t, then there has to be a set of mass false testimony for each of them performing miracles when they did not.
I don’t see such a book flying. If I make excuses and say miracles are not important or just have them in secret and not in public yet claim I am like Moses and others as a guide from God and channeler of scripture then I don’t see people taking my claims seriously.
I talked to followers of Latter Day Saints at a bus station/ mall. I asked them if their present day leader/prophet performs miracles and they say he can but would only do it if God permits. I told them didn’t Moses show signs though to prove his case so why wouldn’t all such people who can such miracles not be required by God to perform them in public as proof. The two young men didn’t have an answer. I told them about Ismaili Imams alive too and they come up with excuses as well.
I don’t see Latter Day Saints nor Ismaili imams that are alive today become as popular as Islam or Christianity because they lack miracles and it’s an easy litmus test per scripture they testify to.
Why don’t I as a Shiite take Ismaili claims seriously is because in short they don’t perform miracles. Yes personally I see the number twelve but take that away for most of my life I didn’t see it in Quran that clearly I would be swayed if he did miracles in public and put interpretation aside of twelve number.
The Iraqi guys claiming to the Mahdi won’t fly because it’s non-public miracles and testimony of a few.
So I’m being realistic and asking how did Mohammad claims fly.
Regardless of whether they are Revelations from God they share the fact that they are old tribal religions and lack relevance to the modern world in terms of the reality of a more universal perspective outside their cultural perspective.I think that what brings us together should be the topic of discussion.
The respect towards other religions is based upon the common ground.
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
I DID answer you. I gave you an identical event, and I asked you why? It was a rhetorical questions. My assumption is that you have enough experience at being human that you know why, which would mean you also know the answer to your question to me. This is NOT "changing the topic." It is giving an analogy. Oh for crying out loud. Change the subejct? OMGosh.Your reply to the question why billions of people believe that Muhammad had revelations from
the One Abrahamic God, was to change the topic to Mormons.
..which is insignificant in comparison.
There are a number of books such as this over the millennia of recent human existence, no problem. Humans have a great creative imagination.
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
It's really not. I'll give you the same analogy that I gave Muhammed. You have Joseph Smith, who claims an angel sent him to dig up some golden plates, and that he was able to translate them using magic glasses. Today there are 16 million Latter Day Saints who all believe the Book of Mormon is the revealed Word of God. Does the existence of the Mormon church today prove that Joseph Smith was really visited by an Angel, etc.? Nope. Not at all. Does it seem more likely to you that God is the source of the Book of Mormon, or is the simpler explanation merely that Joseph Smith was a highly imaginative man?
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Do you think I'm here to prove the Mormon Church to you? I'm not a Mormon. I'm a Jew. The point of bringing up the Mormon church was not to discuss its merits, but to give you an ANALOGY of another person who made fantastic claim to having been visited by an angel, resulting in the writing of a religious text that is embraced by millions today. The explanation of the Quran is identical to the explanation of the Book of Mormon.
I’m saying it was not and won’t be as popular movement because the current time saints can’t do miracles. I’m saying also that they don’t claim they are doing them currently in public. Quran claims Mohammad did them in public and says go ahead and ask his family for such signs and miracles. I hope you see the difference.
While there’s people accepting excuses for no miracles in public it’s different if the book you write claims you and your successors do them in public and you perform none.
While there’s people accepting excuses for no miracles in public it’s different if the book you write claims you and your successors do them in public and you perform none.
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Nope. Sorry. Miracles are utterly irrelevant. They exist in all religion, and even happen to those who are not religious at all. Thus, miracles cannot authenticate the truth claims of any religion.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
and of course that would include the alleged miracle of Jesus rising from the dead.
Usually people deny such persons existing. So Moses is not treated as a historical existing person by people denying his miracles.
People deny his existence to deny the miracles. You guys are missing this point.and of course that would include the alleged miracle of Jesus rising from the dead.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Moses is treated as a historical existing person by Baha'is although we deny his miracles such as parting the Red Sea, etc.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
It is the other way around. People use the miracles to support his existence.
muhammad_isa
Veteran Member
It is not identical .. each case should be judged on its own merits.
It's a bit like saying "Well, they are all black aren't they?"