Christianity vs Islam

[Ebionite]

God's ways can be mysterious and mystic sometimes and certainly in the event of crucifixion.

These six [things] doth YHWH hate: yea, seven [are] an abomination unto him:
A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
Proverbs 6:16-17

Indeed, Allah orders justice and good conduct and giving to relatives and forbids immorality and bad conduct and oppression. He admonishes you that perhaps you will be reminded.
Quran 16:90

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Yeah, Torah has a code, but so does the Quran.

So, apparently, does Tolstoy's War and Peace. Thus, we know that the whole code thing is nonsense.

 

[justaguy313]

So, apparently, does Tolstoy's War and Peace. Thus, we know that the whole code thing is nonsense.

Seems like you don't believe in religion that you claim to support.

"There are four types of people: One who says, "What is mine is yours, and what is yours is mine" is a boor. One who says "What is mine is mine, and what is yours is yours" -- this is a median characteristic; others say that this is the character of Sodom. One who says, "What is mine is yours, and what is yours is yours" is a chassid [pious person]. And one who says "What is mine is mine, and what is yours is mine" is wicked."
Pirkei Avot (Ethics of our Fathers) 5:10

He who has knowledge of the truth is a free man, but the free man does not sin, for "He who sins is the slave of sin" (Jn 8:34). Truth is the mother, knowledge the father. Those who think that sinning does not apply to them are called "free" by the world. Knowledge of the truth merely makes such people arrogant, which is what the words, "it makes them free" mean. It even gives them a sense of superiority over the whole world. But "Love builds up" (1 Co 8:1). In fact, he who is really free, through knowledge, is a slave, because of love for those who have not yet been able to attain to the freedom of knowledge. Knowledge makes them capable of becoming free. Love never calls something its own, [...] it [...] possess [...]. It never says,"This is yours" or "This is mine," but "All these are yours". Spiritual love is wine and fragrance. All those who anoint themselves with it take pleasure in it. While those who are anointed are present, those nearby also profit (from the fragrance). If those anointed with ointment withdraw from them and leave, then those not anointed, who merely stand nearby, still remain in their bad odor. The Samaritan gave nothing but wine and oil to the wounded man. It is nothing other than the ointment. It healed the wounds, for "love covers a multitude of sins" (1 P 4:8).

-Gospel of Phillip, Nag Hammadi Codex II

Artwork - The Hidden Spiritual Language of the Book of Deuteronomy (PaRDeS)

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Seems like you don't believe in religion that you claim to support.

There is no relationship between believing in the Bible code, and Judaism. None. You have Jews who are very into gematria (Jewish numerology) and you have Jews who are not.

 

[justaguy313]

There is no relationship between believing in the Bible code, and Judaism. None. You have Jews who are very into gematria (Jewish numerology) and you have Jews who are not.

That's true. You also have Jews who don't support the so called state of Israel. Jewish voice for peace are one such example.

 

[metis]

That's true. You also have Jews who don't support the so called state of Israel. Jewish voice for peace are one such example.

2 Jews = 3 opinions.

 

[Link]

Surah Al Nahl verse 43 and Surah Al Anbiya verse 21 state that muslims must refer to Scriptures or ''The people of the Book'' if certain matter is not clear to them.


And We sent not before you, [O Muhammad], except men to whom We revealed [the message], so ask the people of the message if you do not know.

Surah Al Anbiya verse 21

According to Shia Hadiths this refers to the family of the reminder, ie. The Imams (a).

The context in Surah Anbiya is with respect to signs in form of miracles. In this context, it says go ahead and ask the family of the reminder if you do not know. But these are not the only type of signs we can seek from them, as the context in Surah Nahl is about explanation of the revelation, so we should seek those signs and proofs from them as well.

The Satanic whisper and magic blinds people to the obvious context, and manifest flow.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

That's true. You also have Jews who don't support the so called state of Israel. Jewish voice for peace are one such example.

Two Jews, three opinions. The vast majority of Jews are Zionist, meaning we believe in the nation state of Israel as a national homeland for the Jews. There is a small minority who reject that, because the believe that only the Messiah can reestablish Israel. Among Jews who are Zionist, there is quite a range of opinions, from those who believe Israel can do no wrong, to those who are highly critical of how Israel is handling things, and everything in between.

 

[Trailblazer]

Quran says people should believe Jesus. Therefore I think Christianity wins.

“…The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was but a messenger of Allah… …believe in Allah and His messengers…”
Quran 4:171, Surat An-Nisa' [4:171] - The Noble Qur'an - القرآن الكريم

That's true, but the Qur'an says people should …believe in Allah and His messengers…” which includes Muhammad.
Christians do not believe in Muhammad. They also do not believe that Jesus was a Messenger. They believe He was God.

Therefore I think Islam wins.

 

[Trailblazer]

That Christ was born through miraculous means is in the Gospels, which you apparently have never read but have the gall to want to lecture Christians about. Hilarious. The Gospels of Matthew and Luke make it clear that Mary was a virgin and Joseph wasn't the father. So how did He come to be if that's not true? Are you saying the Gospels lied? Are you accusing Mary of being an adulteress, which is highly offensive?

The Virgin Birth is an official Baha'i doctrine.

1637. Christ, Virgin Birth of

"First regarding the birth of Jesus Christ. In light of what Bahá’u’lláh and ‘Abdu’l-Bahá have stated concerning this subject it is evident that Jesus came into this world through the direct intervention of the Holy Spirit, and that consequently His birth was quite miraculous. This is an established fact, and the friends need not feel at all surprised, as the belief in the possibility of miracles has never been rejected in the Teachings. Their importance, however, has been minimized."

(From a letter dated December 31, 1937 written on behalf of the Guardian to an individual believer)

1639. Bahá’í Teachings in Agreement with Doctrines of Catholic Church Concerning the Virgin Birth

"With regard to your question concerning the Virgin Birth of Jesus: On this point, as on several others, the Bahá’í Teachings are in full agreement with the doctrines of the Catholic Church. In the 'Kitáb-i-Íqán' (Book of Certitude) p. 56, and in a few other Tablets still unpublished, Bahá’u’lláh confirms, however indirectly, the Catholic conception of the Virgin Birth. Also ‘Abdu’l-Bahá in the 'Some Answered Questions', Chap. XII, p. 73, explicitly states that 'Christ found existence through the Spirit of God' which statement necessarily implies, when viewed in the light of the text, that Jesus was not the son of Joseph."

(From a letter dated October 14, 1945 written on behalf of the Guardian to an individual believer)

Lights of Guidance/Christ - Bahaiworks, a library of works about the Bahá’í Faith

It's because Jesus is superior to us, and the Gospels do have people worshipping Him as God. He's literally God incarnate.

Jesus is superior to us because He is a Manifestation of God who manifested the Attributes of God and revealed the Will of God.
Jesus never claimed to be God incarnate, nor does the Bible say that He was. Just because some people worshiped Jesus as God that does not mean He was God. Jesus did not want to be worshiped because He knew He was not God.

Matthew 4:10 KJV
Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

The Bible says God is spirit, which means that God cannot be flesh.
The Bible also says that no man has ever seen God. We know that many people saw Jesus so that means that Jesus is not God.

 

[Link]

I find the scholars (Muslim wise) who believe in the numerology stuff with Quran, also believe in astrology. The latter has a lot of condemnation in our hadiths to rely on and believe. Yet it's in our books the astrology, and a lot of scholars relied on it.

 

[Trailblazer]

I prefer the version in Genesis ..

So do I, because it has not been corrupted by Christianity, who tried to make Jesus into God.

 

[Link]

So, apparently, does Tolstoy's War and Peace. Thus, we know that the whole code thing is nonsense.

I think this is semi true. There is no book fiction or a speech uttered by a human, but it links back to the unseen world. Jinn inspire people whether people know it or don't. It's often a whole book is inspired by a Jinn, but the human being channeled those words does not know. Some people are aware of this mechanism and tap into it.

Semi false, because it's not random, and not a coincidence.

And the other part of the semi (true part), is because it doesn't imply it's from a divine source.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I think this is semi true. There is no book fiction or a speech uttered by a human, but it links back to the unseen world. Jinn inspire people whether people know it or don't. It's often a whole book is inspired by a Jinn, but the human being channeled those words does not know. Some people are aware of this mechanism and tap into it.

Semi false, because it's not random, and not a coincidence.

And the other part of the semi (true part), is because it doesn't imply it's from a divine source.

If you can pick a random book, translate it into Hebrew, and then use the same rules you used for the Bible Code, and you get prophecies and stuff, it proves that the Bible Code rules are worthless.

 

[Link]

If you can pick a random book, translate it into Hebrew, and then use the same rules you used for the Bible Code, and you get prophecies and stuff, it proves that the Bible Code rules are worthless.

I don't mean that particular numerology. I mean there are numerical coincidences in many books. Mind boggling ones you won't expect from books you don't expect from authors who can't have all spent that time intending all that. Math wise from probability stand point, it can't be coincidence over and over again.

To me, it's proof there is an unseen world. Some people will call them aliens who don't believe in God even.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I don't mean that particular numerology. I mean there are numerical coincidences in many books. Mind boggling ones you won't expect from books you don't expect from authors who can't have all spent that time intending all that. Math wise from probability stand point, it can't be coincidence over and over again.

To me, it's proof there is an unseen world. Some people will call them aliens who don't believe in God even.

Yes, it's coincidence, as the studies with War and Peace show.

 

[Link]

Yes, it's coincidence, as the studies with War and Peace show.

I don't want to derail the thread. But if you study probability, it can't be. Once, twice, three times, okay. But this many times, it can't.

I will leave you with last words.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I don't want to derail the thread. But if you study probability, it can't be. Once, twice, three times, okay. But this many times, it can't.

I will leave you with last words.

Are you actually saying that all books have hidden messages?

 

[Link]

Are you actually saying that all books have hidden messages?

Let's make a new thread about it. I will when have time present research I did into this a long time ago.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Let's make a new thread about it. I will when have time present research I did into this a long time ago.

No, I'm really not interested. If you honestly think that all books have hidden messages, you are not the sort of person I think I can have a reasonable conversation with.