Kelly of the Phoenix
Well-Known Member
If it doesn’t interfere, why not?
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Christianity's hidden privilege
- Thread starter 9-10ths_Penguin
- Start date
Kelly of the Phoenix
Well-Known Member
I’ve worked somewhere that gave you a month before and after so that if your holiday wasn’t on the “normal “ one, you would still be able to use it for yours.
Of course. Don't you?
Doesn't matter to me but some take issue with Christian symbols being displayed.
Kelly of the Phoenix
Well-Known Member
Well, maybe they are just trying to avoid saying God’s name in vain?
Here in Massachusetts, we had numerous 'blue laws' that have since dwindled down to very few. Virtually nothing was allowed to open on Sunday except for stores, (delis, bakeries,) in the Jewish marketplace. From liquor stores closed on Sunday to how early they may open.
I think that depends on the context.
One of the things about living in a society crafted with Christians in mind is that Christian social mores are taken into account in most dress codes and uniform standards. It's often the case that a Christian doesn't need anything "extra" to comply with the dictates of their conscience in respect to their religion. This isn't the case for, say, a Muslim woman with her hijab, or a Sikh with his "5 Ks."
So when a Christian wears, say, religious jewelry, it raises the question of why they're doing it.
If it's something they find personally important even if it isn't mandatory (i.e. how a lot of Catholics feel about their crucifix pendants), then fine. If they just really like the religious item for aesthetic reasons, that's generally fine, too.
OTOH, as this thread has made clear, lots of Christians think that they're entitled to make our society a Christian society. If someone is using their cross necklace or Jesus fish pin to:
- signal their support for Christian anti-secularism,
- signal to other Christians that they should receive special treatment, or
- signal to other Christians that the pin-wearer is willing to give them special treatment,
... then the Christian religious garb is a problem.
What point do you think you made here? That some of the founders were Christians or admired Christianity? That would be irrelevant to the discussion.
The dispute was over whether America was founded on Christian principles. I rebutted that claim. I told the other fellow that he could not produce a single Christian principle that was a principle of Americanism as defined in the founding document, the Constitution, and to date neither you, he, or anybody else has done that. I even posted examples of biblical principles in direct conflict with Americanism.
Until somebody successfully rebuts that, the argument stands as correct. You haven't done that with this post. Unless I missed something, only that last entry makes the claim that the nation was founded on "the gospel of Jesus Christ," which is not only a spurious claim - Henry wrote no such thing ever - but irrelevant even if he had, since it is clearly incorrect.
All one need do to see how little of Christianity appears in the founding documents is make a list of Christian principle, a list of American principles, and compare them to see that there is zero overlap any better than "all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness" (except the liberty and pursuit of happiness, which are not Christian principles) and "Thou shalt not kill." The Christian concept of liberty is to submit to God, the government, your slaver if you are a slave, and your husband if you are a wife.
Just look how Christian "freedom" is manifesting in the news today - as anti-American theocratic tendencies. Where are Christians pushing for liberty? What freedoms have the church been promoting? None. They don't do rights. They do commandments, and these days, restrictive laws.
Christianity does not give men the right to cast off the chains of oppression from the prevailing government, nor does it permit the pursuit of happiness, which it steadfastly warns against except through its single prescribed path according to its definition of happiness, not yours.
Not only is it the case that the two isms cannot be mapped one onto the other, as I mentioned and illustrated, they contradict one another in several places. Church-state separation would be another. Not a Christian principle.
One of the least appealing aspects of Christianity is its trying to poach the best ideas from humanism for itself. Have you seen the arguments for why science is a Christian invention? It's like yours for the Constitution. It's basically that if Christians were involved, science is of Christian origin. There's a well known poster here on RF that has been arguing for years that humanism itself is the child of Christianity, even thought the counterargument is the same as the one I gave you regarding America being a Christian nation: List the principles of humanism and Christianity and look for overlap. You just won't find it.
Wildswanderer
Veteran Member
No you didn't. I quoted several founders who explicitly stated that America was founded on Christianity.
Wildswanderer
Veteran Member
Nonsense.
Ella S.
Well-Known Member
I think the greater struggle for atheists in the US is with Christianity, not Deism.
From what I have seen, Deists are usually quite welcome in atheist circles because they usually support skepticism, science, education, and de-Christianization. Many atheists don't believe in a Deist God, but still respect the position, from what I've seen.
That said, I am not a Deist, and I could be missing out on the hostility towards them.
Most of the references made to "God" were put there within the last century by Christians as a part of their propaganda during war time, such as putting "One nation, under God" in the pledge or putting "In God We Trust" on our currency. It's these references that I know even some Deists want removed due to their violation of the spirit of separation of church and state.
Fallen Prophet
Well-Known Member
Don't Muslims tend to gather during lunch time - like around noon?
How would a school affect that time?
Prayer times vary by time of year (and latitude, IIRC). Around here, the main Friday prayer often starts around 2:00 p.m. with parishoners leaving just as kids are leaving school.
Fallen Prophet
Well-Known Member
What would you suggest be done?
I'm not sure, but I think that before trying to figure out how to address an inequity, the first step is to acknowledge that there is, in fact, an inequity.
Do you agree that there's an inequity in the difference between how we treat Christianity versus non-Christian religions in this society?
Sheldon
Veteran Member
"Although orthodox Christians participated at every stage of the new republic, Deism influenced a majority of the Founders. The movement opposed barriers to moral improvement and to social justice. It stood for rational inquiry, for skepticism about dogma and mystery, and for religious toleration. Many of its adherents advocated universal education, freedom of the press, and separation of church and state. If the nation owes much to the Judeo-Christian tradition, it is also indebted to Deism, a movement of reason and equality that influenced the Founding Fathers to embrace liberal political ideals remarkable for their time."
"the widespread existence in 18th-century America of a school of religious thought called Deism complicates the actual beliefs of the Founders. Drawing from the scientific and philosophical work of such figures as Jean-Jacques Rousseau, Isaac Newton, and John Locke, Deists argued that human experience and rationality—rather than religious dogma and mystery—determine the validity of human beliefs. In his widely read The Age of Reason, Thomas Paine, the principal American exponent of Deism, called Christianity “a fable.” Paine, the protégé of Benjamin Franklin, denied “that the Almighty ever did communicate anything to man, by…speech,…language, or…vision.”
CITATION
Viker
Your beloved eccentric Auntie Cristal
Not really. Those are quote mined pieces of opinions that have no more bearing on the founding than the greater desire for self governance. Which happens to be a universal struggle. No doubt Christians were there and contributing to the formation. The founders had no intention of creating another Christian country.
Wildswanderer
Veteran Member
Not explicitly Christian, no, but definitely on Christian principles.
Viker
Your beloved eccentric Auntie Cristal
Such as?