Christianity's role in African Slavery

[SA Huguenot]

Europeans took natives from Africa (and other places), sold them, treated them as possessions, and forced them to do manual labor while subjecting them to horrific conditions and treatments. Distinctions could be made that they didn't originally "enslave" them, but they certainly participated in the process. And, contrary to most of what Africa and Arabs did, in the Americas the children of slaves became slaves, thus making this "enslavement" distinction even more ridiculous.



I agree, every culture is guilty of slavery. The problem is we in the US are still dealing with the aftermath of removing an ethnic group from their homeland and enslaving them here based on the pretext (believed or not) of white or Christian supremacy.

This is why we need to acknowledge the guilt of our shared history. No, not all our American immigrant families participated in slavery, and yes many of them likely helped put an end to it. But when we have kids posing with guns by the bullet-riddled memorial of a lynched civil rights activist, there is still a problem.

Now, how long will it take for the previous slave descendends to get to the Western level?
BS man!
The African American people are not these worthless mindless people you try to make them out for.
They are long already equal to any other American, White, Chinese, Latin and African.
It is only politics that creates this divide between the different nationalities and cultures in the US.
That stupid Obama, and Hilarious Clinton gangs with Peolsi and friends are te ones that would you believe Black peole are still behind their White fellow Americans.
There is zero, boogerall racism in the US man. Only the divide those Dems pulls out of the hats when they need voters.
How easy for these socialist communists to pull the race cart, and to hope every balck man in the US boards their Clown car to the voting stations to get them back in congress.
You guys in the US are the greatest peole on Earth.
Black, Hispanic, White, Asian etc.
Once you all say: Damn those people who calls out Racism, it does not exist, you will see the hights which you guys can reach!
God Bless America.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Now, how long will it take for the previous slave descendends to get to the Western level?
BS man!
The African American people are not these worthless mindless people you try to make them out for.
They are long already equal to any other American, White, Chinese, Latin and African.
It is only politics that creates this divide between the different nationalities and cultures in the US.
That stupid Obama, and Hilarious Clinton gangs with Peolsi and friends are te ones that would you believe Black peole are still behind their White fellow Americans.
There is zero, boogerall racism in the US man. Only the divide those Dems pulls out of the hats when they need voters.
How easy for these socialist communists to pull the race cart, and to hope every balck man in the US boards their Clown car to the voting stations to get them back in congress.
You guys in the US are the greatest peole on Earth.
Black, Hispanic, White, Asian etc.
Once you all say: Damn those people who calls out Racism, it does not exist, you will see the hights which you guys can reach!
God Bless America.

Yup. Politics! Not sure where you got that I am arguing African Americans are mindless and worthless...?

Unfortunately, the rise of domestic terrorism and rallys centered around white supremacy is not a political illusion.

As an American, I do not hold to any dogmatic view of the US being untainted historically and currently.

 

[Enoch07]

Europeans took natives from Africa (and other places), sold them, treated them as possessions, and forced them to do manual labor while subjecting them to horrific conditions and treatments.

The Europeans bought slaves that were already enslaved though. They didn't charge in, kill and enslave Africans.

Distinctions could be made that they didn't originally "enslave" them, but they certainly participated in the process.

Never said they didn't participate. But solely to blame like many would like to believe? NO

And, contrary to most of what Africa and Arabs did, in the Americas the children of slaves became slaves, thus making this "enslavement" distinction even more ridiculous.

That's insane. The Africans and Arabs bred current slaves and sold the children as slaves as well. They treated their own people like livestock.

The problem is we in the US are still dealing with the aftermath of removing an ethnic group from their homeland and enslaving them here based on the pretext (believed or not) of white or Christian supremacy.

Accept we didn't remove them. Their own ancestors enslaved them.

This is why we need to acknowledge the guilt of our shared history

It's been acknowledged. Now time to move forward.

But when we have kids posing with guns by the bullet-riddled memorial of a lynched civil rights activist, there is still a problem.

I think gang violence is a much bigger problem. At least as far as body count goes.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

The Europeans bought slaves that were already enslaved though. They didn't charge in, kill and enslave Africans.

Again, we can split hairs over the meaning of "enslaved," but due to the advantage of trading slaves for European goods, African slave trade for the sake of European slavers became systematic, spreading the amount of Africans becoming enslaved and often resulting in long marches from the interior to make it to the coast.

The Europeans may as well have enslaved those folks given how African slavery was expanded and adapted for Atlantic slave trade.

Never said they didn't participate. But solely to blame like many would like to believe? NO

Surely not. But I would argue primarily to blame for the Atlantic slave trade and the slave establishments in the Americas. The only way this would be so is to deny it didn't exist or prove that Africans were the ones shipping and controlling slavery here in America.

That's insane. The Africans and Arabs bred current slaves and sold the children as slaves as well. They treated their own people like livestock.

There were a number of ways that people became enslaved, none of them good. But generally (from what I've read, and please post research on it if I am wrong) breeding of slaves wasn't systematic and wide spread. It was in America, especially after the slave trade started to dissolve.

Accept we didn't remove them. Their own ancestors enslaved them.

We removed them. Someone had to ship them from Africa to the Americas in what was a nightmarish voyage.

Besides, we bred people as slaves in this country. I repeat: BRED PEOPLE AS SLAVES.

And it wasn't just Africans. Natives of America were also forced into slavery.

It's been acknowledged. Now time to move forward.

That'd be nice. Except racism is still a problem. Some people haven't moved forward and this affects the living people descended from the people we used as slaves we brought and bred here.

I think gang violence is a much bigger problem. At least as far as body count goes.

Perhaps. White supremacy is still a dangerous ideology still being espoused.

 

[Wandering Monk]

What role did Christianity play in African Slavery?
Historical records show that Islam and Christianity played an important role in enslavement in Africa. The Arab-controlled Trans-Saharan slave trade helped to institutionalise slave trading on the continent. And during the 'age of expedition', European Christians witnessed caravans loaded with Africans en-route to the Middle East.
Others arriving much later in West Africa observed slavery in African societies, leading them to assume that
African enslavement was intrinsic to the continent.


For many of these early European explorers, the Bible was not only regarded as infallible, it was also their primary reference tool and those looking for answers to explain differences in ethnicity, culture, and slavery, found them in Genesis 9: 24-27, which appeared to suggest that it was all a result of 'sin'.

Moreover, in Genesis 10, the 'Table of Nations' describes the origins of the different 'races' and reveals that one of the descendants of Ham is 'Cush' - Cush and the 'Cu****es' were people associated with the Nile region of North Africa.
In time, the connection Europeans made between sin, slavery, skin colour and beliefs would condemn Africans.

In the Bible, physical or spiritual slavery is often a consequence of sinful actions, while darkness is associated with evil. Moreover, the Africans were subsequently considered 'heathens' bereft of Christianity, although scholars now suggest that Christianity reached Africa as early as the early 2nd century AD and that the Christian communities in North Africa were among the first in the world. However, Europeans doubtlessly refused to acknowledge the relevance of African Christianity as it appeared irreconcilable with the continent's cultural surroundings.

Religion is the scum of the Earth

I hope you will start a thread on Christians who STOPPED slavery as well.

 

[Enoch07]

African slave trade for the sake of European slavers became systematic,

It was systematic a thousand years before the Europeans showed up.

The Europeans may as well have enslaved those folks given how African slavery was expanded and adapted for Atlantic slave trade.

May as well have?!? Absolute horsep00p! Had Africans not enslaved their own people, there would have been no slaves to begin with.

But I would argue primarily to blame for the Atlantic slave trade and the slave establishments in the Americas.

Well of course, because that was the sole reason for the Atlantic slave trade, primarily for sugar cane farming.

The only way this would be so is to deny it didn't exist or prove that Africans were the ones shipping and controlling slavery here in America.

Open a history book the proof is there.

There were a number of ways that people became enslaved, none of them good. But generally (from what I've read, and please post research on it if I am wrong) breeding of slaves wasn't systematic and wide spread

Yes the African and Arab slave trades bred their own people to be sold as slaves.

We removed them. Someone had to ship them from Africa to the Americas in what was a nightmarish voyage.

And it was native Africans that captured those folks, then forces them onto those boats.

Besides, we bred people as slaves in this country. I repeat: BRED PEOPLE AS SLAVES.

Yes, as did everyone else in the world at the time.

And it wasn't just Africans. Natives of America were also forced into slavery.

So was the Chinese and Irish.

Everybody ancestors was a slave at some point in history.

Except racism is still a problem.

Sure, and it will always exist to some degree.

White supremacy is still a dangerous ideology still being espoused.

Sure, so is black supremacy, radical islam, and ideological zealotry.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

So was the Chinese and Irish.

Everybody ancestors was a slave at some point in history.

Indeed: while the Church of England was the second-largest slave owner in the Caribbean at the height of the slave trade, and while these slaves were predominantly of African descent, the Catholic Church held Irish slaves in the Magdalene Asylums right up until 1996.

 

[Enoch07]

Indeed: while the Church of England was the second-largest slave owner in the Caribbean at the height of the slave trade, and while these slaves were predominantly of African descent, the Catholic Church held Irish slaves in the Magdalene Asylums right up until 1996.

Even former slaves owned land and slaves in the U.S.

William Ellison - Wikipedia

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theroot.com/did-black-people-own-slaves-1790895436/amp

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Even former slaves owned land and slaves in the U.S.

... and therefore it's okay that Christian churches kept slaves?

 

[Enoch07]

... and therefore it's okay that Christian churches kept slaves?

Never said that.

But nobody is complaining about brown folk that owned slaves, only white people are devil's for doing it. Kinda funny how brown folk get a pass on the guilt eh?

 

[Shad]

Actually, your Bible is racist, yous ee read Genesis 9, When Ham was cursed his face turned black, and his ancestors who were African were condemned for eternal slavery, uh oh!, that was the Justification for slavery by the South in Colonial America, and justification for racist Christians, read your Bible

I have studied Africa,race and the Bible

Read what you link. You own source refuted your claim.

Pro-slavery advocates used the servant status of Ham in an ad hoc manner to rationalize slavery which was already taking place for centuries. They argued since blacks were slaves they must be descendants of Ham as only his decedents had the bloodline of servants thus could be slaves. They argued that Europeans were decedents of Japheth thus could enslave "claimed" bloodline of Ham

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Never said that.

My mistake for assuming that your reply related to the post it was quoting.

But nobody is complaining about brown folk that owned slaves, only white people are devil's for doing it. Kinda funny how brown folk get a pass on the guilt eh?

Which "brown folk" do you think are "getting a pass?"

 

[Guitar's Cry]

It was systematic a thousand years before the Europeans showed up.

For the Arabs, perhaps. But Africans had differing and variable slavery goals and systems of obtaining: Atlantic slave trade - Wikipedia

Note: slavery is wrong. What the Africans did to themselves was wrong. This does not relieve America of its own immorality.

May as well have?!? Absolute horsep00p! Had Africans not enslaved their own people, there would have been no slaves to begin with.

Not horsepoop! We kept slaves. By keeping slaves regardless of their source, we enslave them. A person does not magically become just a "slave" by being made one. We could have just as easily freed them having understood that they are people and not possessions. Nope, we enslaved them.

And then bred them, enslaving their children.

And enslaved other peoples like Native Americans who we hunted down and captured.

Besides, it is likely that the Portuguese started by raiding and only started trading partnerships due to resistance: Atlantic slave trade - Wikipedia

Well of course, because that was the sole reason for the Atlantic slave trade, primarily for sugar cane farming.

Open a history book the proof is there.

Yup.

Yes the African and Arab slave trades bred their own people to be sold as slaves.

Not so much. The Arabs tended to make eunuchs out of the men and concubines out of the women. Children of the slaves were usually free. Recalling Africa’s harrowing tale of its first slavers – The Arabs

Now, yes, still horrible since slavery is never pretty. Doesn't relieve the guilt of America.

And it was native Africans that captured those folks, then forces them onto those boats.

With plenty of well-armed Europeans around their Europeans boats.

Yes, as did everyone else in the world at the time.

Unlikely. And even if so, everyone else's guilt doesn't assuage our guilt. WE BRED PEOPLE AS SLAVES.

So was the Chinese and Irish.

Everybody ancestors was a slave at some point in history.

Sure, and it will always exist to some degree.

Doesn't make it right or mitigate any guilt.

Sure, so is black supremacy, radical islam, and ideological zealotry.

True. Humanity has a lot of issues with violence. Attempting to assuage some guilt over a terrible and bloody history through tacking it on to other cultures also complicit in the actions ignores the implications of modern white supremacy.

 

[Enoch07]

Which "brown folk" do you think are "getting a pass?"

Any and all. Like I said everyone's ancestors were slaves or slave masters at different points in history. Which means we have all been p00py to each other. Not just white folk being p00py to everyone else, like the narrative being told.

 

[Enoch07]

For the Arabs, perhaps. But Africans had differing and variable slavery goals and systems of obtaining:

Slavery is still wrong. Why do you justify African slavery?

Note: slavery is wrong. What the Africans did to themselves was wrong. This does not relieve America of its own immorality.

Odd because you was just using apologetics to justify why the Arabs was wrong but not the African.

America also freed it's slaves.

There was a long bloody war etc.

Not horsepoop!

Yes complete and utter horsep00p.

We kept slaves. By keeping slaves regardless of their source, we enslave them. A person does not magically become just a "slave" by being made one. We could have just as easily freed them having understood that they are people and not possessions.

We did free them.

Nope, we enslaved them.

And freed them. Thank you Christian Abolitionist!

Not so much. The Arabs tended to make eunuchs out of the men and concubines out of the women.

That doesn't negate the Africans of guilt.

Now, yes, still horrible since slavery is never pretty. Doesn't relieve the guilt of America.

That doesn't negate Africans of guilt either then.

With plenty of well-armed Europeans around their Europeans boats.

That would have been empty without the Africans supplying their own people as livestock.

Unlikely. And even if so, everyone else's guilt doesn't assuage our guilt.

I'm not guilty of p00p. I've never owned slaves. Nobody in my family has ever owned slaves. My family didn't even own land in the U.S. until 1960. They was Irish migratory workers that moved around depending on the season for 200 years until they finally settled down. They picked cotton, tobacco leaves, and whatever was in season at the time. So much so my Mother was a cotton picker that dropped out of school after the 8th grade to start working full time so the family could save up to buy the land.

Doesn't make it right or mitigate any guilt.

Good, now that brown folk share the same guilt we can all on as equals.

Attempting to assuage some guilt over a terrible and bloody history through tacking it on to other cultures also complicit in the actions ignores the implications of modern white supremacy.

Nobody is "tacking" it on other cultures. Other cultures participated in it for much longer than we did. They deserve just as much guilt as white folk.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Slavery is still wrong. Why do you justify African slavery?

Didn't do that. Only suggesting a difference in particulars. Slavery is never justified except in kinky consensual situations. ;-)

Odd because you was just using apologetics to justify why the Arabs was wrong but not the African.

Where? The above post? Again, I was suggesting differences in particulars in context with the conversation.

Yes complete and utter horsep00p.

You forgot to quote the rest of my response where I show it is not: "We kept slaves. By keeping slaves regardless of their source, we enslave them. A person does not magically become just a "slave" by being made one. We could have just as easily freed them having understood that they are people and not possessions. Nope, we enslaved them.

And then bred them, enslaving their children.

And enslaved other peoples like Native Americans who we hunted down and captured.

Besides, it is likely that the Portuguese started by raiding and only started trading partnerships due to resistance: Atlantic slave trade - Wikipedia"

We did free them.

And freed them. Thank you Christian Abolitionist!

We did! And thanks to the efforts of African Americans during that time that managed to be influential despite being beaten physically and spiritually. And those that died in revolt attempts.

That doesn't negate the Africans of guilt.

That doesn't negate Africans of guilt either then.

My response negated your suggestion that African and Arab cultures were breeding slaves like in America.

That would have been empty without the Africans supplying their own people as livestock.

Remember that was after armed raids by Portuguese.

And, as in the Wikipedia article I linked to suggested, there was an unequal relationship in this trade. What the Arab and European slave trade did was take what was essentially the same tribal slavery system seen in virtually all cultures and take it up an economic and cruel level.

I'm not guilty of p00p. I've never owned slaves. Nobody in my family has ever owned slaves. My family didn't even own land in the U.S. until 1960. They was Irish migratory workers that moved around depending on the season for 200 years until they finally settled down. They picked cotton, tobacco leaves, and whatever was in season at the time. So much so my Mother was a cotton picker that dropped out of school after the 8th grade to start working full time so the family could save up to buy the land.

I never said "you," I said "we"--as in the shared cultural history Americans have.

Good, now that brown folk share the same guilt we can all on as equals.

We should go on as equals. But I cannot condone putting the same guilt on folks whose ancestors were stolen from their homes, shipped to a foreign land under inhuman conditions, forced to work and breed, beaten, starved, treated worse than cattle, then when freedom is won suffer under black codes, Jim Crow (until the 70s), all while fearing being murdered by Klansmen and facing general and systematic discrimination (which still goes on today).

Nobody is "tacking" it on other cultures. Other cultures participated in it for much longer than we did. They deserve just as much guilt as white folk.

But in the case of the Africans, not on the same level. Keep in mind, we are talking about only certain cultural groups that participated in the Atlantic Slave trade. And if we are talking about placing blame on African Americans (which you are), then we cannot.

 

[Enoch07]

My response negated your suggestion that African and Arab cultures were breeding slaves like in America.

They were bredding slaves to sale though. Where do you think the Europeans got the idea from?

What the Arab and European slave trade did was take what was essentially the same tribal slavery system seen in virtually all cultures and take it up an economic and cruel level.

It was already cruel long before Europeans got involved though. You keep trying to justify their slavery while condemning Europeans for doing it. Your logic is not consistent. Either slavery is wrong or it is not. Saying one people do it is ok, but not for another is morally wrong.

I never said "you," I said "we"--as in the shared cultural history Americans have.

Yes the shared culture that also freed the slaves. Yet focus is only put on the negative aspect.

We should go on as equals. But

Had to be a but.

But I cannot condone putting the same guilt on folks whose ancestors were stolen from their homes, shipped to a foreign land under inhuman conditions, forced to work and breed, beaten, starved, treated worse than cattle, then when freedom is won suffer under black codes, Jim Crow (until the 70s), all while fearing being murdered by Klansmen and facing general and systematic discrimination (which still goes on today).

Then your stance on slavery is not principled. Again if slavery is morally wrong then it must be condemned on all levels no exceptions. Their ancestors were stolen from their homes by their own ancestors, which is the root of why slavery was even a thing to begin with. Without the African slave system already in full swing who know if slavery would ever have been a thing in the U.S.

But in the case of the Africans, not on the same level. Keep in mind, we are talking about only certain cultural groups that participated in the Atlantic Slave trade. And if we are talking about placing blame on African Americans (which you are), then we cannot.

Why not? If modern day American must take blame for slavery in America in the past then that guilt must also follow through to its root, which is the African/Arab slave trade.




Ultimately my point is. Mistakes were made in the past. All the way up to the 60's and even up til today. But we learn from our mistakes and try to do better. Which we have, and will continue to do. But we can't move forward so long as people still live in the past. IF you want to live in the past then so be it. Just know you will have to acknowledge the wrongs of everyone if so, or be deemed a hypocrite.

So

It's time to move forward. Everybody has wronged everybody else at some point in history, regardless of the color of their skin. You want to stay in that vicious cycle of hate fine. In which you are because you are perpetuating the white guilt myth and not letting the past go. Fine, then so be it. But we will never be able to leave that cycle of hate until people put the past behind them. Especially when slavery and Jim Crow no longer exist in America. There is black politicians, CEO, neurosurgeons, astrophysicist, etc. All very wealthy and influential. Nobody is holding anyone back or anyone down. The ones that have succeeded are the ones that have escaped the cycle of hate and moved forward. Refusing to let the chains of history enslave them. I suggest everyone does the same.

 

[Riders]

Yawn,,, The practices of slavery and human trafficking are still prevalent in modern America with estimated 17,500 foreign nationals and 400,000 Americans being trafficked into and within the United States every year with 80% of those being women and children.

Your logic makes all Americans scum by still allowing slavery to continue in your country

ARe we speaking of sex trafficking or trafficking of illegal aliens?

 

[Riders]

I don't know where you get that message

Sex slavery, theres a huge sex trafficking of teens and kids going on_

 

[Guitar's Cry]

They were bredding slaves to sale though. Where do you think the Europeans got the idea from?

Yeah, Europeans must've had a hard time figuring out that sex=babies.

I did research this a bit because I didn't want to incorrectly assert that this wasn't a practice. I posted what I found that suggests this didn't occur. If you have contradictory evidence please post it for analysis. I enjoy debate and welcome evidence that contradicts my assertions.

It was already cruel long before Europeans got involved though. You keep trying to justify their slavery while condemning Europeans for doing it. Your logic is not consistent. Either slavery is wrong or it is not. Saying one people do it is ok, but not for another is morally wrong.

I've repeatedly stated slavery of any kind is wrong. It is a shared human past. I am stating that the Atlantic slave trade cannot be blamed on African Americans. What involvement Africans had in the Atlantic slave trade was shaped by Europeans.

Yes the shared culture that also freed the slaves. Yet focus is only put on the negative aspect.

Your assertion is that African Americans share in the guilt. I am negating that, and am doing so by not blaming modern individuals for slavery but recognizing that America has this shared culture in which our European part cruelly enslaved the other.

Then your stance on slavery is not principled. Again if slavery is morally wrong then it must be condemned on all levels no exceptions. Their ancestors were stolen from their homes by their own ancestors, which is the root of why slavery was even a thing to begin with. Without the African slave system already in full swing who know if slavery would ever have been a thing in the U.S.

Likely, given our treatment of Native Americans, I would say so. Also, as you said, it wasn't just the Africans that we enslaved. One way or another, slave labor would have been exploited for cash crops.

Again, I have stated that slavery is morally wrong with no exceptions. Our conversation concerns specifics not generalities.

Why not? If modern day American must take blame for slavery in America in the past then that guilt must also follow through to its root, which is the African/Arab slave trade.

Which means blaming African Americans, whose ancestor's cultural ties aren't even known due to our treatment of them?

Ultimately my point is. Mistakes were made in the past. All the way up to the 60's and even up til today. But we learn from our mistakes and try to do better. Which we have, and will continue to do. But we can't move forward so long as people still live in the past. IF you want to live in the past then so be it. Just know you will have to acknowledge the wrongs of everyone if so, or be deemed a hypocrite.

So

It's time to move forward. Everybody has wronged everybody else at some point in history, regardless of the color of their skin. You want to stay in that vicious cycle of hate fine. In which you are because you are perpetuating the white guilt myth and not letting the past go. Fine, then so be it. But we will never be able to leave that cycle of hate until people put the past behind them. Especially when slavery and Jim Crow no longer exist in America. There is black politicians, CEO, neurosurgeons, astrophysicist, etc. All very wealthy and influential. Nobody is holding anyone back or anyone down. The ones that have succeeded are the ones that have escaped the cycle of hate and moved forward. Refusing to let the chains of history enslave them. I suggest everyone does the same.

I agree with the spirit of this passage! We should move on and see each other as equals. Progress has been made (perhaps the recent uprising of white supremacists is symbolic of a last stand?) and hopefully will continue.

I disagree that no one is holding anyone back. School segregation still exists (Segregation: A Modern Problem for Public Schools in the South | PublicSchoolReview.com), voter's ID laws affect minorities disproportionately (A Dead-Simple Algorithm Reveals the True Toll of Voter ID Laws), and gerrymandering has been found in court to have racial implications (Gerrymandering - Ballotpedia). That is in addition to the incidents involving racial discrimination by police (Policing in black & white) and the spate of white supremacist groups and individual terrorists since our first black president.

If this is about letting go of the past, it would appear that our racist past won't let go of us. Think of how hard it is to remove Confederate symbols from public spaces without protests about "erasing history."