Christians: am I saved? (eternal salvation)

[meshak2]

What a terrible response .. full of falsehood and fallacy .. I have not gutted the NT .. in any way shape or form ..to the contrary it is you who runs and hides from the Teachings of Jesus .. desperately bringing up other passages that have no bearing on .. and certainly do not falsify the Teachings of Jesus from the Sermon on the mount .. those from which you wish to Run.

Then you don't Answer Squat .. I did not say Jesus was a Priest prior to resurrection .. but now that you bring it up .. I am curious. Support your claim that Jesus was not a priest until after resurrection. Sounds like some more of your made up scripture .. when you are not hiding from the real stuff.

You then finish with your gutting of the NT -- Taking out the Sermon on the Mount --and trying to project your dislike of scripture on to me in some kind of twisted web of deceit and falsehood .. as is the way of those on the path opposite to the light.

Have you yet to come to grips with the Religious Fact -- the the majority of Christianity .. includes works in the Salvation formulation ? Is it all these folks who are "Gutting the Gospel" .. or is it Brother Ken who be Dirty Dancing down the dark path -- there can be only one.

You cannot debate with triun god worshippers. They have so many man-made doctrines.

Jesus never said "faith only" or "grace only".

On the contrary, He commands His followers to keep the commandments. All His teachings like a sermon on the mount are His commitment.

that's why I encourage everyone to read Jesus' word instead of asking triun god worshippers.

They are leading people astray.

It is a tragedy.

 

[Sargonski]

insightful.

You understand Jesus much more than mainstream Christians.

"Faith without works is dead", this simple statement of James is not so popular among mainstreamers.

Mainstream churches,AKA triune god worshippers, are popularity-based, not Jesus-centered.

that's why it is so chaotic.

they are ignoring the word of Jesus "Narrow is the way to life and a few find it."

Trin churches are humongous in the world.

Let us not conflate the Trinity with Sola Fide .. and keep in mind that what you are calling "Mainstream" in terms of belief in Sola Fide .. are not mainstream. In the US we are dominated by the Fundamentalist - Protestant Perspective .. just how the demographics worked out .. so while Salvation by faith alone is Mainstream USA .. it is not Mainstream Christianity.. which is the ironic part when dealing with a fundamentalist or any staunch Sola Fide Adherent .. Sorrry mate that ain't the mainstream belief ..

but yes James -- Brother of Jesus .. head of the Jerusalem Church after the passing of our Lord and Saviour .. did not think highly of this group of "Faith Alone" Christians Spouting this .. what he considered the Doctrine of Fools .. and it doesn't get any stronger language .. than the word Fool . but also this is the word that Jesus uses .. so James is merely paralleling the Sermon on the Mount

24 “Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. 26 But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. 27 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash.”

Who is the foolish man ?? .. the one who does no works - Does not put the teachings of Jesus into Practice .. So it is Written ... So it Shall be done ..

What is also something to note -- is Matt 7:12 .. What James 2 refers to as "The Royal Law" .. and even Paul refers to this at one point which is quite cool .. The Golden Rule Taught to Young Jesus at the knee of Rabbi Hillel 100 BC - 10 AD .. there are two schools in Judaism .. one of them is named after this fellow ... Very Famous Holy man .. one day was asked by an unbeliever to Sum up the Torah said "Don't do to others what you hate - the Rest is all commentary .. now Go and Learn"

12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this rule sums up the Law and the Prophets.


OK ? .. did we have further questions ? the big question of the day now been answered .. which is what ?

"Not all who cry Lordy Lordy Look whose 40 get in .. but ONLY those that do the will of The Father who art in Heaven .. and Hallowed be his Name .. which is ? .. but one question at a time

ONLY the ones do the WILL of the Fadder ? and that will is what ? "If a man commit a crime against you ... he must be paid back .. 1000 times" ? "Do unto others and then Split" ?

OR --- Door number 3 -- and the founding Principle .. the rock on which the USA was founded .. If ya don't want your neighbor raping your wife and stealing your stuff .. then don't be doing that to your neighbor

Do we understand now what God Requires Brother Meshk ?? but - don't let Jesus Stop you he not the only one stated this Rule .. God Spoke this one long ago .. Came down from Heaven to Hamurrabi 1800BC .. and the one before that in 2100 BC Confusius said this Rule .. As did Buddha .. and even Muhammad ..

So I figure .. at some point .. Jesus or no Jesus .. Most high or Not .. perhaps the Universe is trying to tell us something ...

Now .. as for the Trinity .. completely different topic .. we can I think start and finish that conversation with a line from previous post in this thread to Ken .. and others .. talking about MelchiZedek .. and the priestly Order that followed .. and the membership of Jesus in this Priestly Order .. as told in Hebrews -- clearly Jesus is not being referred to as "The Most High" and of course Jesus regularly refers to "The Father" as someone other than himself.. "Take this Cup from My hand" but unfortunately the Human sacrifice goes through .. Jesus not real happy about it at the end crying out that his God has forsaken him .. which is true .. he kind of did.

 

[Kenny]

What a terrible response .. full of falsehood and fallacy .. I have not gutted the NT .. in any way shape or form ..to the contrary it is you who runs and hides from the Teachings of Jesus .. desperately bringing up other passages that have no bearing on .. and certainly do not falsify the Teachings of Jesus from the Sermon on the mount .. those from which you wish to Run.

Then you don't Answer Squat .. I did not say Jesus was a Priest prior to resurrection .. but now that you bring it up .. I am curious. Support your claim that Jesus was not a priest until after resurrection. Sounds like some more of your made up scripture .. when you are not hiding from the real stuff.

You then finish with your gutting of the NT -- Taking out the Sermon on the Mount --and trying to project your dislike of scripture on to me in some kind of twisted web of deceit and falsehood .. as is the way of those on the path opposite to the light.

Have you yet to come to grips with the Religious Fact -- the the majority of Christianity .. includes works in the Salvation formulation ? Is it all these folks who are "Gutting the Gospel" .. or is it Brother Ken who be Dirty Dancing down the dark path -- there can be only one.

Except you said so... "what are you talking about John 3-16 .. in some desperate dance to avoid the teachings of Jesus " as if Jesus didn't say what was in John 3:16

"Sola Fide did not exist in Christianity as doctrine" You eliminated Ephesians 2:8-9 and John 3:16

I harmonized the two scriptures and can harmonize the NT with what Jesus said in Matthew... you have not... you simply wave the hand and say "you don't look at those scripture, you only look at Matthew and then only portions of Matthew" - kinda like mining only those parts that support your position.

 

[Kenny]

but yes James -- Brother of Jesus .. head of the Jerusalem Church after the passing of our Lord and Saviour .. did not think highly of this group of "Faith Alone" Christians Spouting this .. what he considered the Doctrine of Fools .. and it doesn't get any stronger language .. than the word Fool . but also this is the word that Jesus uses .. so James is merely paralleling the Sermon on the Mount

And this is where you have misunderstood IMV. Faith bring salvation - salvation brings the works of faith as in James. One is spiritual and the other is the natural outcome.

Notice the spiritual side:Romans 10:8 But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the message concerning faith that we proclaim: 9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.

The works here is the confession of your mouth and there is a glaring absence of physical works as you propose.

Now... it you are saved and say you have the saving faith then...

James 2:18 But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.” Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds.

Now that you have saving faith, demonstrate it by the faith deeds.

There... harmonized beautifully

To say that it wasn't there until Martin Luther is to throw out scripture. Martin Luther "rediscovered" what was there all along.

As Paul said: Galatians 3:2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard?

A gift is a gift - not a work because then it is earned and not a gift. You propose a work, a job, a recompense versus a gift.

EDIT: ADDITIONAL SCRIPTURE

Romans 4:2
For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

Galatians 2:16
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

When does works justify us or better said, prove that we are believers? When we add works to our saving faith. If you do have faith, it will produce an outward work--an outward expression of the faith that was already there

James 2:25
Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

 

[meshak2]

Let us not conflate the Trinity with Sola Fide .. and keep in mind that what you are calling "Mainstream" in terms of belief in Sola Fide .. are not mainstream.

Triun god worshipper the dominating Christianity.

RCC and the rest of the protestants are the mainstream.

they are the ones who made up all kinds of man-made doctrines.

Most protestants adopted Calvinism except Catholics.

Catholics are still triune god worshippers.

This is the root of Christian corruption.

Jesus says we know them by their fruit. worshipping a man-made god is the root of evil.

His true followers stay out of man-made god-worshiping churches.

Jesus says Come out of Babilon rest sharing their guilt.

 

[Sargonski]

Triun god worshipper the dominating Christianity.

RCC and the rest of the protestants are the mainstream.

they are the ones who made up all kinds of man-made doctrines.

Most protestants adopted Calvinism except Catholics.

Catholics are still triune god worshippers.

This is the root of Christian corruption.

Jesus says we know them by their fruit. worshipping a man-made god is the root of evil.

His true followers stay out of man-made god-worshiping churches.

Jesus says Come out of Babilon rest sharing their guilt.

Indeed the Trinity is a corruption most vile -- but not sure it is the root .. and then revisits the question .. what was the nature of Christs divinity .. but most important .. who is the God of Jesus .. the one who adopted him at the age of 30 .. the one Jesus calls "The Father" ?

 

[meshak2]

Indeed the Trinity is a corruption most vile -- but not sure it is the root ..

It is the root of corruption because there is no truth in false god-worshipping.

they have so many man-made doctrines that do not come from Jesus' word.

that is their evil fruit.

God cannot be mocked.

 

[Sargonski]

Except you said so... "what are you talking about John 3-16 .. in some desperate dance to avoid the teachings of Jesus " as if Jesus didn't say what was in John 3:16

"Sola Fide did not exist in Christianity as doctrine" You eliminated Ephesians 2:8-9 and John 3:16

I harmonized the two scriptures and can harmonize the NT with what Jesus said in Matthew... you have not... you simply wave the hand and say "you don't look at those scripture, you only look at Matthew and then only portions of Matthew" - kinda like mining only those parts that support your position.

First off -- I didn't eliminate anything by explaining to you the FACT that until Martin Luther and the Protestant Movement .. "Sola Fide" was not Church Doctrine .. not by Catholic .. not by Orthodox .. which were the two major denominations in Christianity for the first 1500 years.

I did not create Church Doctrine --- so how am I eliminating scripture by telling you what Church Doctrine is .. Blame the Church .. not the messenger. Catholics and Orthodox to this day do not believe in "Sola Fide" - Salvation by Faith alone .. Works is a "requirement"
do you understand now ... ?? that the majority of Christians do not share your belief in the Path to Salvation. That is all I am telling you .. no need to start crying out that I have eliminated scripture .. when there is a big log in own eye Brother Ken

Iit is you Brother Ken who has been eliminating Scripture -- deperate to avoid the teachings of Jesus in the Sermon on the mount .. and what this sermon meant to the audience listening - what they thought was the path to Salvation... which didn't include having the Gospel of John ... Nobody eliminated the Gospel of John .. because it did not yet exist ...

Deflecting to Scripture elsewhere in the Bible does not negate the scripture in question either.. so a major logical fail at this juncture .as well as a deflection and avoidance tactic .. or in your words "Scripture Elimination"

I am all good discussing John 3:16 .. when it is relevant to the conversation .. but crying out about the numbers of Animals on the Ark has nothing to do with Salvation formulation given by Jesus in the Sermon on the Mount. First you need to understand the formulation in Matt - to claim to be a follower of the Teachings of Christ. ... know Christ in the Early years of his evolution prior to attaining the same status as the Most High God .. who's name you have yet to figure out.

In the "early years" -- the Jewish and other followers of Christ .. believed that Works was part of the Salvation Formulation - as per the Sermon on the Mount .. which is what they knew.

You Claim to have progressed beyond the Teachings Jesus in Matt/Mark -- usurped the Logos .. claiming that works are no longer required .. desperate to ignore and "Eliminate" the fact that at least at one point in time .. Works indeed was a requirment as per the Teachings of Jesus. and was a requirement according to all of Christian Doctrine until ~ 1500 AD and to this day is still doctrine for Most of Christianity -- The Protesters going their own way.

Your mission is then to acknowledge that it is you who has been eliminating scripture -- failing to acknowledge the Teachings of Jesus in Matt-Mark .. admit that indeed Jesus gives a works bases salvation formulation .. with no mention of "Faith" as a requirement ... in this most famous of Sermons .. the topic of which is how to get into heaven ..

Explain to us what "The Will of the Father" is .. according to Jesus in this Sermon .. the Sermon he is referencing .. and not Noah's Ark.

 

[Sargonski]

It is the root of corruption because there is no truth in false god-worshipping.

they have so many man-made doctrines that do not come from Jesus' word.

that is their evil fruit.

God cannot be mocked.

Surely God can be mocked .... the "Unforgivable Sin" being one example .... the "Awfull Horror" - "Abomination of Desolation" and on this account I would say you have hit the nail square

The sin of putting words in God's mouth .. setting up a false representation of God in the house where Gods Name Resides ... definitely some rootage of corruption.

but - this all begs the question -- which God of the OT do we follow ? who is "The Father" .. God of Jesus ... if not YHWH .. the God depicted as xenophobic Genocidal maniac ... a flip flopping trickster God with the most petty and nasty of Human Characteristics .. but if not this false representation .. then who /What God is the God of Jesus Who's order of Priests is not that of Moses and His God .. but That of MelchiZedek and Abraham .. and Their God ?

 

[Kenny]

First off -- I didn't eliminate anything by explaining to you the FACT that until Martin Luther and the Protestant Movement .. "Sola Fide" was not Church Doctrine .. not by Catholic .. not by Orthodox .. which were the two major denominations in Christianity for the first 1500 years.

I did not create Church Doctrine --- so how am I eliminating scripture by telling you what Church Doctrine is .. Blame the Church .. not the messenger. Catholics and Orthodox to this day do not believe in "Sola Fide" - Salvation by Faith alone .. Works is a "requirement"
do you understand now ... ?? that the majority of Christians do not share your belief in the Path to Salvation. That is all I am telling you .. no need to start crying out that I have eliminated scripture .. when there is a big log in own eye Brother Ken

Iit is you Brother Ken who has been eliminating Scripture -- deperate to avoid the teachings of Jesus in the Sermon on the mount .. and what this sermon meant to the audience listening - what they thought was the path to Salvation... which didn't include having the Gospel of John ... Nobody eliminated the Gospel of John .. because it did not yet exist ...

Deflecting to Scripture elsewhere in the Bible does not negate the scripture in question either.. so a major logical fail at this juncture .as well as a deflection and avoidance tactic .. or in your words "Scripture Elimination"

I am all good discussing John 3:16 .. when it is relevant to the conversation .. but crying out about the numbers of Animals on the Ark has nothing to do with Salvation formulation given by Jesus in the Sermon on the Mount. First you need to understand the formulation in Matt - to claim to be a follower of the Teachings of Christ. ... know Christ in the Early years of his evolution prior to attaining the same status as the Most High God .. who's name you have yet to figure out.

In the "early years" -- the Jewish and other followers of Christ .. believed that Works was part of the Salvation Formulation - as per the Sermon on the Mount .. which is what they knew.

You Claim to have progressed beyond the Teachings Jesus in Matt/Mark -- usurped the Logos .. claiming that works are no longer required .. desperate to ignore and "Eliminate" the fact that at least at one point in time .. Works indeed was a requirment as per the Teachings of Jesus. and was a requirement according to all of Christian Doctrine until ~ 1500 AD and to this day is still doctrine for Most of Christianity -- The Protesters going their own way.

Your mission is then to acknowledge that it is you who has been eliminating scripture -- failing to acknowledge the Teachings of Jesus in Matt-Mark .. admit that indeed Jesus gives a works bases salvation formulation .. with no mention of "Faith" as a requirement ... in this most famous of Sermons .. the topic of which is how to get into heaven ..

Explain to us what "The Will of the Father" is .. according to Jesus in this Sermon .. the Sermon he is referencing .. and not Noah's Ark.

I take close note that you still didn't explain the scriptural position of the multiple verses that say "not by works". A lot of other statements (number of animals???) but nothing pertaining to my points. At this point all you have given me is "because I say so"

 

[meshak2]

but - this all begs the question -- which God of the OT do we follow ? who is "The Father" .. God of Jesus ... if not YHWH .. the God depicted as xenophobic Genocidal maniac ... a flip flopping trickster God with the most petty and nasty of Human Characteristics .. but if not this false representation .. then who /What God is the God of Jesus Who's order of Priests is not that of Moses and His God .. but That of MelchiZedek and Abraham .. and Their God ?

Jesus' God is what we are supposed to follow.

Jesus' God is OT God and our God.

Our God is the creator of the whole universe.

God tried to teach His people to be the world's leaders to be godly nation but they failed to do so.

So He sent Jesus to teach us how to love God and love one another.

It is much higher standard than OT laws.

But trin churches completely changed Jesus' teachings.

Protestant trins teaches because Jesus did all the works we dont have to do works.

It is circus.

 

[Sargonski]

Jesus' God is what we are supposed to follow.

Jesus' God is OT God and our God.

Our God is the creator of the whole universe.

God tried to teach His people to be the world's leaders to be godly nation but they failed to do so.

So He sent Jesus to teach us how to love God and love one another.

It is much higher standard than OT laws.

But trin churches completely changed Jesus' teachings.

Protestant trins teaches because Jesus did all the works we dont have to do works.

It is circus.

What is the name of the God of Jesus ? Given a number of hints - the God of the Priesthoof of MelchiZedek ... the "Most High" of the Canaanite Priest King of Jerusalem..

Looking for a name here friend .. not a general term that could apply to a number of the OT -Gods ... and the name is important .. as we don't want to commit that old Sin .. Blaspheming Jah - Rastafa .. now do we ?

 

[vulcanlogician]

Christians, in your opinion, am I going to heaven when I die aka "saved"?

Dont give me that "only god knows" answer. I'm not interested in that.

I'm not a Christian. But actually I LIKE the answer, "it's up to God." or "God is the one who judges, not me, and not the Bible."

Otherwise, you are kinda ASKING Christians to be presumptuous. You are kinda saying "hey, reasonable Christians... I don't wanna hear YOUR answer. I only wanna hear from the ones who like to put words in God's mouth."

While plenty of those kind of Christians exist, they're not the ones that you usually have fruitive conversations with.

(Just my attempt at constructive criticism, anarchist. Otherwise, I thought it was a good OP.)

 

[meshak2]

What is the name of the God of Jesus ? Given a number of hints - the God of the Priesthoof of MelchiZedek ... the "Most High" of the Canaanite Priest King of Jerusalem..

Looking for a name here friend .. not a general term that could apply to a number of the OT -Gods ... and the name is important .. as we don't want to commit that old Sin .. Blaspheming Jah - Rastafa .. now do we ?

I am not a scholar but it seems YHWH is it.

But OT people were afraid to write His name so they called "LORD", all capital.

Jesus is our Lord. It means Master. That's what His faithful ones called Jesus.

 

[meshak2]

I'm not a Christian. But actually I LIKE the answer, "it's up to God." or "God is the one who judges, not me, and not the Bible."

Otherwise, you are kinda ASKING Christians to be presumptuous. You are kinda saying "hey, reasonable Christians... I don't wanna hear YOUR answer. I only wanna hear from the ones who like to put words in God's mouth."

While plenty of those kind of Christians exist, they're not the ones that you usually have fruitive conversations with.

(Just my attempt at constructive criticism, anarchist. Otherwise, I thought it was a good OP.)

Jesus says we all will be judged according to what we have done.

Jesus left us how to be saved in His word which His faithful ones wrote down in the books of Mathew, Mark, Luke, Joun, and the Revelation.

His teachings are not hard to understand but Triune god worshippers made it as if complicated.

It is not hard to understand but it is difficult to follow because He commands His followers to be the light of the world.

Telling us to abandon our worldly way of living and mentality and change to His ways.

it is a difficult task for most of us to give up a comfortable life to His ways.

But if we are willing, God will give us the Holy Spirit power to accomplish the task.

Blessings.

 

[vulcanlogician]

Jesus says we all will be judged according to what we have done.

True as that may be, isn't it also true that God is the one who will be doing the judging? The Bible indicates that God is all-knowing. I think that's a pretty good quality for a would-be judge to have, don't you agree?

It's fine to point out things like faithfulness or "what we have done" as criteria for how God might judge a person. But it should also be pointed out that the Bible names God as the being who will make those judgments. And that's final.

No minister, no theologian, no apologist can say squat about what God's judgment is going to be. As non-omniscient beings, they ought to recognize that ANY of their own judgments will never come close to that of an omniscient being. Even if they DO possess an inerrant collection of words about this being, that doesn't mean they are any closer to judging anyone NEARLY as well as God would.

 

[InChrist]

If there is a god, they would be a being of pure love and pure logic, therefore anything devoid of compassion and reason cannot be of god.
Justice is when the punishment is proportionate to the offense, and no human is capable of committing anything that is proportionate to eternal damnation. What purpose would it fulfill? To gratify god's ego?

I think the scriptures define eternal damnation as separation from God. Throughout the Bible it’s revealed that God desires all to be saved from this destiny and live eternally with Him, yet no one will be forced to do so. The sad and actually horrible reality is that to be separated from God will be horrendous, lonely, and tormenting because the Creator God is the only Source of love, light, beauty, joy, peace, creativity, and all we know as good. Being in an eternity apart from God will be empty, dark, and awful. God the Father and the Jesus the Son of God went through an incredible amount of pain and suffering out of love for humanity so that no one would have to end up in that state of separation.

 

[InChrist]

Christians, in your opinion, am I going to heaven when I die aka "saved"?

Dont give me that "only god knows" answer. I'm not interested in that.

Let me make my case for why I'm going to heaven if Jesus Christ is literally God and stuff.

I was a Christian from the time I understood it. This lasted until the time I was around 22-23. I prayed the salvation prayer so many times in middle school, for fear I didn't do it right the first time. The stakes were the highest ya know? Get it wrong or something and you will be in literal hell forever. But I really believed in Jesus Christ as a deity. It's not like I never believed in Him in the first place. I worshiped Him earnestly.

I have taken in new knowledge and life experiences. My beliefs have matured. I'm not calling Christianity immature, I'm saying my personal understanding's maturity led me away from Christ. Do you tell a person they never believed in Santa because they no longer do? No!

Is salvation eternal?

I think once one has received salvation, it is eternal. You should not have to be asking others if you have eternal salvation, if you are truly born again, you would know…
…These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God. 1 John 5:13

If you have been born again to new life in Christ you are a new creation …

…Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.
2 Corinthians 5:17

and as Peter understood there no where else to go but Jesus since He has the words of eternal life…

…But Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. John 6:68

 

[Sargonski]

I take close note that you still didn't explain the scriptural position of the multiple verses that say "not by works". A lot of other statements (number of animals???) but nothing pertaining to my points. At this point all you have given me is "because I say so"

You have no points ... and have not explained any verses from the relevant text .. relating to the Teachings of Jesus in the Sermon on the Mount. Your verses saying "not by works" have been explained .. but you have not presented any .. so another strange fallacious falsehood on your part. .. continuing to deflect from the Teachings of Jesus . with nonsensical falsehoods and projection .. of your failings onto others.

You many know them by their fruit .. and what you have offered has been rather rotten Brother Ken .. your "Free Pass through Judgement" dogma.. " Salvation by Faith Alone" -- said by both Jesus and Brother James to be "Foolish" James 2

19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.
20 You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless

are you going to . explain the scriptural Position Kenny ... and then explain why your favorite scripture contradicts the teachings of Jesus ?

 

[meshak2]

... and then explain why your favorite scripture contradicts the teachings of Jesus ?

This is what is going on in the triune god-worshipping churches. It is a Jesusless gospel which is no gospel at all.