Christians: am I saved? (eternal salvation)

[Sargonski]

This is what is going on in the triune god-worshipping churches. It is a Jesusless gospel which is no gospel at all.

I am not a scholar but it seems YHWH is it.

But OT people were afraid to write His name so they called "LORD", all capital.

Jesus is our Lord. It means Master. That's what His faithful ones called Jesus.

It is not YHWH --- which is where things get very interesting .. because how could YHWH be the God of Jesus ?- Jesus is the reverse of YHWH .. a complete contradiction of YHWH .. Jesus does not obey the "Laws" of YHWH-- be sure to distinguish between the Commands .. most of which come before YHWH .. from that Other God you are ignoring .. The God of Abraham.

Now since I have mentioned this a few time .. you are thinking this fellow is loopy ... the God of Abraham is YHWH .... everyone knows that ... not debated in serious circles ... right ? .... No no no Brother Meshak .. I not making this stuff up ... it is modern Theological Scholarship ... "not really debated in serious circles" .. go look up Abraham in the Encyclopedia Brittanica .. They will tell you who the God of Abraham is "according to modern Scholarship" and it is not YHWH

???? ---- >>> and .. as it turns out the Bible states directly .. one few times we have YHWH speaking to Moses directly ... telling Moses that Abe did not know the name of YHWH ... YHWH the Trickster God claims that this other God was him in disguise but .. we know better than to trust the words of the demiurge at face value .. Other than the claim that Abe didn't know no YHWH .. Ya Hear ??

Did you find yourself a proper reading of Deut 32:8 Heiser is a good source -- https://digitalcommons.liberty.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1278&context=lts_fac_pubs

and here is one that explains the translations -- A Theologically Revised Text: Deuteronomy 32:8-9

When the Most High gave the nations their inheritance,
when he divided humankind;
he set the bounds of the peoples
according to the number of the children of El,
and the Lord’s portion was his people.
Jacob, the lot of his inheritance.

So the "Most High" here is "El Elyon" the epiphet "God Most High" which is EL .. and we know this because later we have one of the few times that the proper name "EL" is given referring to the Sons of God directly .. Sons of EL of which YHWH is one ..


So EL divides the Earth Among his son's (who then battle for supremacy .. which is what much of the OT is about ) The Lord - YHWH's portion is Israel - Jacob. EL is God of the Patriarchs

We see El in Psalm 82 .. as Head of the Divine Council .. known in those days by all people in Mesopotamia as the Council of El .. as he was the Chief. https://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/psa82.pdf

In this Psalm we have YHWH defeating the other Son's of El .. rendered "Sons of the Supreme one" who is EL .. obviously not YHWH as YHWH is not defeating his own Son's ..

So--- When Abe meets up with the Canaanite Priest King "Melchi-Zedek" named after the Patron God of Jerusalem "Zedek" and they worship "the Most High" .. it is EL is the name of the God being Worshiped .. not YHWH.

El is the Most High God of the of the Canaanite Pantheon during Abe's time .. along with the - Phonician - Midianite - Amorite - Elamite - ammonite - and everyone else around the fertile Crescent from Assyria to Babylon

The Priestly Order of EL ... is the Order of MelchiZedek .. or just the Order of Zedek .. These are twin Gods of Justice and Righteous - a part of the Divine Council - related to EL .. El is Judge .. these are eminations from the Godhead if you wish to look at it from a gnostic perspective .... but Divine helpers .. regardless of how one looks at it.

This order lasts for 8 Centuries in Jerusalem .. during the days when the Canaanites held the City .. from the time of Abe .. to King David .. who while he sacks the City for the Israelites .. keeps the priestly order intact .. and himself becomes a member of this Priestly Order of Zedek .. the King David defeats is named "Adoni-Zedek" = "My Lord is Zedek"

So David Keeps this Order intact .. as opposed to the Order of YHWH -- and himself becomes a Priest of the Order of Melchizedek Psalm 110.. Then in Hebrews .. we have Jesus become a Priest in the Order of Zedek .. and is represented by the Characteristics of these two Gods.

 

[Colt]

Christians, in your opinion, am I going to heaven when I die aka "saved"?

Dont give me that "only god knows" answer. I'm not interested in that.

Let me make my case for why I'm going to heaven if Jesus Christ is literally God and stuff.

I was a Christian from the time I understood it. This lasted until the time I was around 22-23. I prayed the salvation prayer so many times in middle school, for fear I didn't do it right the first time. The stakes were the highest ya know? Get it wrong or something and you will be in literal hell forever. But I really believed in Jesus Christ as a deity. It's not like I never believed in Him in the first place. I worshiped Him earnestly.

I have taken in new knowledge and life experiences. My beliefs have matured. I'm not calling Christianity immature, I'm saying my personal understanding's maturity led me away from Christ. Do you tell a person they never believed in Santa because they no longer do? No!

Is salvation eternal?

Any person who is loyal to deity, dedicated to doing the will of God is saved. For some people Christianity is really just a social club.

 

[meshak2]

It is not YHWH --- which is where things get very interesting .. because how could YHWH be the God of Jesus ?- Jesus is the reverse of YHWH .. a complete contradiction of YHWH .. Jesus does not obey the "Laws" of YHWH-- be sure to distinguish between the Commands .. most of which come before YHWH .. from that Other God you are ignoring .. The God of Abraham.

Now since I have mentioned this a few time .. you are thinking this fellow is loopy ... the God of Abraham is YHWH .... everyone knows that ... not debated in serious circles ... right ? .... No no no Brother Meshak .. I not making this stuff up ... it is modern Theological Scholarship ... "not really debated in serious circles" .. go look up Abraham in the Encyclopedia Brittanica .. They will tell you who the God of Abraham is "according to modern Scholarship" and it is not YHWH

???? ---- >>> and .. as it turns out the Bible states directly .. one few times we have YHWH speaking to Moses directly ... telling Moses that Abe did not know the name of YHWH ... YHWH the Trickster God claims that this other God was him in disguise but .. we know better than to trust the words of the demiurge at face value .. Other than the claim that Abe didn't know no YHWH .. Ya Hear ??

Did you find yourself a proper reading of Deut 32:8 Heiser is a good source -- https://digitalcommons.liberty.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1278&context=lts_fac_pubs

and here is one that explains the translations -- A Theologically Revised Text: Deuteronomy 32:8-9

When the Most High gave the nations their inheritance,
when he divided humankind;
he set the bounds of the peoples
according to the number of the children of El,
and the Lord’s portion was his people.
Jacob, the lot of his inheritance.

So the "Most High" here is "El Elyon" the epiphet "God Most High" which is EL .. and we know this because later we have one of the few times that the proper name "EL" is given referring to the Sons of God directly .. Sons of EL of which YHWH is one ..


So EL divides the Earth Among his son's (who then battle for supremacy .. which is what much of the OT is about ) The Lord - YHWH's portion is Israel - Jacob. EL is God of the Patriarchs

We see El in Psalm 82 .. as Head of the Divine Council .. known in those days by all people in Mesopotamia as the Council of El .. as he was the Chief. https://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/psa82.pdf

In this Psalm we have YHWH defeating the other Son's of El .. rendered "Sons of the Supreme one" who is EL .. obviously not YHWH as YHWH is not defeating his own Son's ..

So--- When Abe meets up with the Canaanite Priest King "Melchi-Zedek" named after the Patron God of Jerusalem "Zedek" and they worship "the Most High" .. it is EL is the name of the God being Worshiped .. not YHWH.

El is the Most High God of the of the Canaanite Pantheon during Abe's time .. along with the - Phonician - Midianite - Amorite - Elamite - ammonite - and everyone else around the fertile Crescent from Assyria to Babylon

The Priestly Order of EL ... is the Order of MelchiZedek .. or just the Order of Zedek .. These are twin Gods of Justice and Righteous - a part of the Divine Council - related to EL .. El is Judge .. these are eminations from the Godhead if you wish to look at it from a gnostic perspective .... but Divine helpers .. regardless of how one looks at it.

This order lasts for 8 Centuries in Jerusalem .. during the days when the Canaanites held the City .. from the time of Abe .. to King David .. who while he sacks the City for the Israelites .. keeps the priestly order intact .. and himself becomes a member of this Priestly Order of Zedek .. the King David defeats is named "Adoni-Zedek" = "My Lord is Zedek"

So David Keeps this Order intact .. as opposed to the Order of YHWH -- and himself becomes a Priest of the Order of Melchizedek Psalm 110.. Then in Hebrews .. we have Jesus become a Priest in the Order of Zedek .. and is represented by the Characteristics of these two Gods.

It seems petty argument to me.

Blessings.

 

[Sargonski]

And this is where you have misunderstood IMV. Faith bring salvation - salvation brings the works of faith as in James. One is spiritual and the other is the natural outcome.

Notice the spiritual side:Romans 10:8 But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the message concerning faith that we proclaim: 9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.

The works here is the confession of your mouth and there is a glaring absence of physical works as you propose.

Now... it you are saved and say you have the saving faith then...

James 2:18 But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.” Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds.

Now that you have saving faith, demonstrate it by the faith deeds.

There... harmonized beautifully

To say that it wasn't there until Martin Luther is to throw out scripture. Martin Luther "rediscovered" what was there all along.

As Paul said: Galatians 3:2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard?

A gift is a gift - not a work because then it is earned and not a gift. You propose a work, a job, a recompense versus a gift.

EDIT: ADDITIONAL SCRIPTURE

Romans 4:2
For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

Galatians 2:16
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

When does works justify us or better said, prove that we are believers? When we add works to our saving faith. If you do have faith, it will produce an outward work--an outward expression of the faith that was already there

James 2:25
Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

Your cut and past attempt to dismiss James is not suprising -- it is a well known apology .. can find 20 fundamentalist snake charmer sites saying the same thing ... running away from the teachings of Jesus and James in this case .. and into the loving arms of Paul .. as if this somehow dismisses the teachings of Jesus.

So Yes Brother Ken -- Paul is preaching a different Tune than Jesus and James . James never thought much of Paul .. and Martin Luther hated the Epistle of James .. wanted it removed from the Bible .. as it contradicts "Sola Fide" so regardless of how hard you try to refute the Teachings of James to prop up your Idol Luther .. Luther himself did not pretend James did not contradict his dogma .. and in fact it is only the Extremist Fundamentalists that engage in that kind of mind boggling charlatanism to pretend not to be able to understand the words on the page.... Where James tells us that "Faith Alone" is Worthless .. Dead .. that we are not saved on this basis .. and those who believe this are foolish .. paralleling what Jesus says in Matt 7 .. as posted to you a number of times now .. only to find you running for the hills .. looking for Paul or some other scripture you can cite .. because you can not deal with the reality in front of you.

24 “Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. 26 But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. 27 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash.”

You were asked before .. but ran from the question .. trying to hide from the Teachings of Jesus .. but once again it is in your face ..

Who is the Foolish man in the story who has no foundation in Christ ? the Just have Faith crowd with no actions .. thats who. actions = deeds = works .. and do demonstrate that you have learned and understood what works is at some piont .. as this is important .. to understanding the ideology to which you subscribe .. but have demonstrated you don't understand .. by showing a lack of understanding of "Works" and seemingly don't get the distinction between salvation by "Faith" and that by "Grace" .. the attempted "work around" but never mind that .. we first need to get you onto solid food .. versed in the basics.

The majority of Christianity maintains works as part of the salvation formulation .. views "Faith Alone" as false doctrine .. I am sorry .. but this is reality .. and ignoring the Teachings of Jesus .. dismissing and dispairaging them in favor of Paul .. is not the solution Brother Ken ... clinging to this fallacy is not a foundation built on Solid Rock .. but one built on Sand

 

[meshak2]

The majority of Christianity maintains works as part of the salvation formulation .. views "Faith Alone" as false doctrine ..

This is the wrong assessment, friend.

 

[Sargonski]

It seems petty argument to me.

Blessings.

Well .. name calling is nto an argument for much either friend .. then hailing blessings .. = running from the playground .. taking ball home .. while name calling.

Why are you so troubled by the idea that YHWH is not the God of Jesus ? To me this seems not a petty thing and in fact a very non petty thing. The fact that you do not know which God it is that you worship .. having admitted as much in your simple post of fallacious contradictory silliness .. you claim is Petty ? it matters not at all to you that you have no idea what God it is that you worship ??

Did you want to confirm that it matters not if YHWH is your God .. or Sataniel ??

 

[Sargonski]

This is the wrong assessment, friend.

No its not .. Cathoic and Orthodox do not do "Sola Fide" .. and that is the majority of Christianity . and stop making naked claims .. if you are going to cry out "Wrong" .. support your claim .. otherwise is worthless .. "not an argument" .. never mind a Petty one ... Har har .. at least a Petty argument ... is an argument..

 

[meshak2]

No its not .. Cathoic and Orthodox do not do "Sola Fide" .. and that is the majority of Christianity . and stop making naked claims .. if you are going to cry out "Wrong" .. support your claim .. otherwise is worthless .. "not an argument" .. never mind a Petty one ... Har har .. at least a Petty argument ... is an argument..

Bye, friend.

 

[Sargonski]

True as that may be, isn't it also true that God is the one who will be doing the judging? The Bible indicates that God is all-knowing. I think that's a pretty good quality for a would-be judge to have, don't you agree?

It's fine to point out things like faithfulness or "what we have done" as criteria for how God might judge a person. But it should also be pointed out that the Bible names God as the being who will make those judgments. And that's final.

No minister, no theologian, no apologist can say squat about what God's judgment is going to be. As non-omniscient beings, they ought to recognize that ANY of their own judgments will never come close to that of an omniscient being. Even if they DO possess an inerrant collection of words about this being, that doesn't mean they are any closer to judging anyone NEARLY as well as God would.

According to the NT it is Jesus who will do the Judging .. that said .. the Authority for this action coming from "GOD" so this is the same as God Judging ..

Now .. to the question of the Squat - Is that all we can say ? .. did God leave no clue's what so ever ? nothing through the prophets of value.. nor History ?

Of course I can agree with your premise on a purely existential basis .. where nothing can be proven for sure .. and it may well be that "Life is but a Dream" --- but, in This Dream .. I think there are a few things that might be said and well "One thing" that seems to come Screaming out ... as if God were trying to tell us something. and all the Sages seem to agree -- Concur ..

but as the Good Seargeant Shultz .. in Hogan's Hero's .. my apologies for the had to have seen the Series comment .... folks seem to wander around claiming to know nothing .. See nothing

I say Matt 7:12 comes from Ahura Mazda .. -- Har Har Har That pronoun deficient Divinity ...

 

[Sargonski]

Bye, friend.

Going on a vacation Brother Meshak !? .. Have a fruitfull Journey .. take care ... and be well

 

[YoursTrue]

If there is a god, they would be a being of pure love and pure logic, therefore anything devoid of compassion and reason cannot be of god.
Justice is when the punishment is proportionate to the offense, and no human is capable of committing anything that is proportionate to eternal damnation. What purpose would it fulfill? To gratify god's ego?

The idea of eternal damnation has been greatly distorted.

 

[YoursTrue]

yes he did... but he was closing one covenant and opening another covenant and dealt with both in his life until after the resurrection.

The problem arises when you try to take what he said about the Law of Moses and mix it when He was referencing the New Covenant fulfilling the prophetic promise to Abraham who was before the Law.

Even in the rest of what we call the NT, it talks about three areas:

1 Corinthians 10:32
Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:

So even there you have to understand when the writer is talking about the Jews or the Gentiles or the church of God.

Interesting point about closing one covenant and opening another.

 

[Sargonski]

Bye, friend.

Going on a vacation Brother Meshak !? .. Have a fruitfull Journey .. take care ... and be well

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Christians, in your opinion, am I going to heaven when I die aka "saved"?

I'm not a Christian but I just wonder why you care.

 

[vulcanlogician]

I'm not a Christian but I just wonder why you care.

I thought you were a Christian. What made you change your mind?

 

[RabbiO]

I thought you were a Christian. What made you change your mind?

It is no secret that Frank’s spiritual journey has taken him to and from Christianity multiple times over the years. It is always possible, although never certain, that down the line a spell you might read a post by Frank as a Christian.

 

[syo]

Avoid lions.

 

[an anarchist]

Avoid lions.

I once stumbled across a mountain lion on a nature trail. It roared, but ultimately spared me as I tripped and fell as I was trying to run away.

I was a Christian at the time though.

I think I'll stay away from nature trails for now on LOL.