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Christians be honest with yourselves. (Christians only)

Johnlove

Active Member
You think that you're not a sinner?
This thread is about Christians being honest, so in answer to your question, no I do not sin.

I am a child of God, and God’s children do not sin.


(1 John 3:9-10) “No one who has been begotten by God sins; because God’s seed remains inside him, he cannot sin when he has been begotten by God. In this way we distinguish the children of God from the children of the devil: anybody not living a holy life and not loving his brother is no child of God’s.”


But why ask me? You don’t seem to believe in the written Word of God, so why would you ever believe me?


It has been so long that any of the Church leaders have walked in the gifts of an apostle, or prophet that there is not a chance that anyone in the church has a clue as to how one can live without sinning.
 
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angellous_evangellous

Guest
This thread is about Christians being honest, so in answer to your question, no I do not sin.

I am a child of God, and God’s children do not sin.


(1 John 3:9-10) “No one who has been begotten by God sins; because God’s seed remains inside him, he cannot sin when he has been begotten by God. In this way we distinguish the children of God from the children of the devil: anybody not living a holy life and not loving his brother is no child of God’s.”


But why ask me? You don’t seem to believe in the written Word of God, so why would you ever believe me?


It has been so long that any of the Church leaders have walked in the gifts of an apostle, or prophet that there is not a chance that anyone in the church has a clue as to how one can live without sinning.

Yes, but we are used to self-aggrandizing liars with dilusions of grandeur.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Again you have nothing to dispute the scripture quoted by me. All you can do is say I don’t understand. Yet you can’t show me anything that says I am wrong.
No need to dispute the ridiculous.
I didn't say that you don't understand. I said that you're cherrypicking and basing a theological stance on too narrow a platform.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
You in order to believe that the Roman Catholic is not condemned have to ignore all the teaching that go against what the apostles taught.
I don't believe that RCCs are condemned. And I don't have to ignore the Church Fathers to believe that.
 

Forever_Catholic

Active Member
That is a Roman Catholic Church teaching, but it has no scriptural confirmation.
Here is some of the biblical evidence of purgatory, the place of purification after death for those who are saved, but due to unpaid debts to God and/or consequences of sins, remaining attachments to sin, etc, can not yet enter heaven:

Matthew 12:32 And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but he that shall speak against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, nor in the world to come.

So Jesus implies here that at least some other sins can be forgiven in the afterlife. And this is consistent with:

2 Maccabees 12:46 It is therefore a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead, that they may be loosed from sins.

Saint Paul on building on the foundation “which is Christ Jesus.” from 1 Corinthians 3:10-15: 14/15 - If any man's work abide, which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work burn, he shall suffer loss; but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire.

"Saved as by fire" could not take place in hell because hell is for the eternally damned. It could not take place in heaven because nothing impure can enter heaven (Revelation 21:27); there is neither punishment nor purification in heaven because only the purified may enter it.

And there's this from the Sermon on the Mount:

Matthew 5:23-26 If therefore thou offer thy gift at the altar, and there thou remember that thy brother hath any thing against thee; Leave there thy offering before the altar, and go first to be reconciled to thy brother: and then coming thou shalt offer thy gift. Be at agreement with thy adversary betimes, whilst thou art in the way with him: lest perhaps the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison. Amen I say to thee, thou shalt not go out from thence till thou repay the last farthing.

I know from God that there is a place of punishment that is not Hell. Hell is controlled by Satan.

This is a private revelation that you claim to have received, and I have no reason not to believe it because it is a true description of purgatory. As God indicated to you, there are no demons in purgatory. In fact, angels tend to the souls there.

And since you believe your own private revelation, you might want to consider the validity of others, which have been declared by the Church to be worthy of belief. There is an enormous body of private revelation about purgatory and the souls therein. They began at least as early as 203 A.D. when Saint Perpetua was given a vision of her little brother in purgatory and was moved to pray for him prior to her martyrdom. It has continued to accumulate throughout the ages. For example, Saint Catherine of Genoa (1447-1510) wrote a Treatise on Purgatory based on first-hand experiences given by God. Saint Mary talked about purgatory in her visitations as Our Lady of Fatima in 1917. Saint Faustina (1906-1938) was taken to purgatory by her guardian angel (Diary entry 20).

And in co-authoring the Divine Mercy Novena with Saint Faustina, Jesus specified that the eighth day would be for the intention of souls in purgatory. He gave her these words to accompany the prayers she wrote and the Chaplet of Divine Mercy for that day:

"Today bring to Me the Souls who are in the prison of Purgatory, and immerse them in the abyss of My mercy. Let the torrents of My Blood cool down their scorching flames. All these souls are greatly loved by Me. They are making retribution to My justice. It is in your power to bring them relief. Draw all the indulgences from the treasury of My Church and offer them on their behalf. Oh, if you only knew the torments they suffer, you would continually offer for them the alms of the spirit and pay off their debt to My justice."

I have only scratched the surface here. If you would like to look further, it's a very easy topic to research.
 
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sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
(1 John 3:9-10) “No one who has been begotten by God sins; because God’s seed remains inside him, he cannot sin when he has been begotten by God. In this way we distinguish the children of God from the children of the devil: anybody not living a holy life and not loving his brother is no child of God’s.”
What makes you think that 1 John is right and Romans (3:23) "All have sinned and fallen short..." is wrong? Especially since Romans was written 40 years prior to 1 John?
 

Johnlove

Active Member
I don't believe that RCCs are condemned. And I don't have to ignore the Church Fathers to believe that.
If people knew the truth, and wanted to live the truth, they then would change the way the church was led, and what it taught.


People don’t truly want to live the commandments of God. The leaders of the church just are giving people what they want to believe.

My message causes much discomfort, because it show all those who hear it that they need to ignore much of God’s Word to continue to believe what they want to believe.
 

Forever_Catholic

Active Member
After some of the Church leaders stopped following the Holy Spirit, God needed to give them something to guide them. So he had people assemble the written Word.
The Church leaders did not stop following the Holy Spirit. It was the Church leaders themselves, not just "people," as you say, who assembled the written word as guided by the Holy Spirit.
 
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angellous_evangellous

Guest
If people knew the truth, and wanted to live the truth, they then would change the way the church was led, and what it taught.


People don’t truly want to live the commandments of God. The leaders of the church just are giving people what they want to believe.

My message causes much discomfort, because it show all those who hear it that they need to ignore much of God’s Word to continue to believe what they want to believe.

... and you're just preaching that you're perfect. I wonder if that's not what you want to believe and preach?

I'm not sure that you will find a responsible person who would believe your message.
 

Forever_Catholic

Active Member
Don't need to. Anyone with a brain stem who has undertaken serious biblical studies knows this is common knowledge. If Moses existed, he could not have written the Pentateuch, because the Pentateuch wasn't written until only about 650 years B.C.E. Moses most likely would have been illiterate, and he couldn't have written about his own death. Furthermore, there's ample evidence that just Genesis had four different authors.
The apostles, Peter, James, and John saw Moses and Elijah with Jesus at the transfiguration, so your doubt that Moses existed doesn't correlate with that. Your argument doesn't correlate with what Jewish scholars say either; that Moses wrote the Torah, except for the last verses of Deuteronomy pertaining to his death and burial, which they say were written by Joshua.
 

Forever_Catholic

Active Member
The Roman Catholic Church stopped being led by the Holy Spirit when it first allowed its leaders to let people fight in Constantine the Great’s Army.
The scriptures make it very clear that military service is not a sin. On the contrary, it has always been God's habit to support military forces engaged in a cause that is united with his will -- and the well being of Saint Constantine's holy empire was certainly God's will.

Aside from that, Jesus said that the Catholic Church would always be guided by the Holy Spirit, and that he, Jesus, would never leave it; that "I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world." (Matthew 28:20)
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
The apostles, Peter, James, and John saw Moses and Elijah with Jesus at the transfiguration, so your doubt that Moses existed doesn't correlate with that.
No, the gospel writers say that Peter, James and John saw Moses and Elijah. The gospel writers say a lot of things that probably never really happened.
Your argument doesn't correlate with what Jewish scholars say either; that Moses wrote the Torah, except for the last verses of Deuteronomy pertaining to his death and burial, which they say were written by Joshua.
Not all Jewish scholars say that. Apparently just the ones you want to believe.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
If people knew the truth, and wanted to live the truth, they then would change the way the church was led, and what it taught.
"The people" don't control the church -- never have. The church has always been controlled by its clergy, who are commissioned by Christ for that specific ministry.
 

Johnlove

Active Member
The scriptures make it very clear that military service is not a sin. On the contrary, it has always been God's habit to support military forces engaged in a cause that is united with his will -- and the well being of Saint Constantine's holy empire was certainly God's will.

Aside from that, Jesus said that the Catholic Church would always be guided by the Holy Spirit, and that he, Jesus, would never leave it; that "I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world." (Matthew 28:20)
Yes that is the teaching that the church had to make people believe in order for it to seem to be of God.


The Church before Constantine the Great knew and lived as pacifists. The Early Christians obeyed Jesus’ teachings.


(Matthew 5:44) “But I say this to you: love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you;”


(Matthew 5:39) “You have learnt how it was said: ‘Eye for eye and tooth for tooth.’ But I say this to you: offer the wicked man no resistance.”


Notice Jesus said offer the wicked man no resistance.
 

Johnlove

Active Member
"The people" don't control the church -- never have. The church has always been controlled by its clergy, who are commissioned by Christ for that specific ministry.

The true Church that Jesus established is made up of all those people who hear the Word of God and live that Word.


Those are the people who love God and are of God.


(John 14: 23) “Anyone who loves me will keep my word and my Father will love him, and we shall come to him and make a home in him.”


Notice Jesus said those who love him keep his Word.


(John 14:21) “Anybody who receives my commandments and keeps them will be one who loves me; and anybody who loves me will be loved by My Father, and I shall love him and show myself to him.”


Those who Jesus has shown himself to obey and live God’s commandments, and those people believe my message.


I have seen Jesus, and he told me he is God.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
The true Church that Jesus established is made up of all those people who hear the Word of God and live that Word.


Those are the people who love God and are of God.
Ok. Doesn't refute my point. At all.
Those who Jesus has shown himself to obey and live God’s commandments, and those people believe my message.
Still doesn't refute my point. Not all followers believe your message, because you have no authority to preach it.
I have seen Jesus, and he told me he is God.
Uh huh. While Jesus is God, I doubt you've seen him. Your theological stance is just to narrow for that to be true.
 

Johnlove

Active Member
Not true. The gospels portray Jesus as offering passive resistance.
So you are saying that scripture has it wrong?

Also you need to understand that Jesus is God, and God is the law giver, and the law enforcer.


Jesus told us to love our enemies. He did not give us authority to punish our enemies.


(Matthew 5:44) “But I say this to you: love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you;”
 
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