How? How do I think I know? I want to know. How do you know you don't know?
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Christians: How do you know Lucifer is evil?
- Thread starter Mycroft
- Start date
How? How do I think I know? I want to know. How do you know you don't know?
I will have to hear first from forum if this is off topic.
Okay, but:
- how do you know this is what Lucifer does?
- what would make this evil?
- would it be similarly evil for God to oppose a person's search for Lucifer?
Mycroft
Ministry of Serendipity
You're either not reading or refusing to answer the question at hand: How do you know?
For example how do you know that Lucifer isn't trying to save you from a being who wishes to exterminate all who do not believe in him? As far as I know, Lucifer has no such policy.
You know? OK. Do you mean lucifer has no such policy which policy is putting it's self between the person and the True God?
It's people who say God is destruction. I don't believe them. I believe Jesus is God's son and is the way the truth the life. So then God is the way the truth the life because the son cannot do a single thing except what he sees The Father doing. I believe that. You will ask me how I know. I study. I search. I want to believe it. People will believe what they want to believe. I am no different.
I do not know if the Bible Lucifer and Satan the tempter of Jesus are the same. I do not know whether or not the thing called Satan wants to be satan. Do you?
Is it off topic to be interchanging Lucifer and Satan please?
I shall guess yes.
Well maybe it is off topic. Maybe not.
Surely, if I see someone tempting me to sin, and he is not crawling on his belly, I might use this information to rule out the Satan scenario. Unless, of course, God's condemnation of the serpent was basically useless.
Even if the belly-crawler is still evil, he is also vastly less dangerous. Easy to spot, so to speak.
Ciao
- viole
Mycroft
Ministry of Serendipity
But isn't that what God does? Oppose people's search for Lucifer (or any God or Deity they wish) by offering eternal damnation and suffering for refusing to follow God?
I don't. I know how to role play. It is what I doing. I am going along with your questions
The getting in the way of my drawing close to God would mean evil to me. For some other people it would mean a blessing I guess.
I would say you are off topic. The Bible is way to complicated to reach that very simple conclusion. Now your role playing the jster. Is this not so?
I shall venture to say it is Lucifer who came up with that gem.
Which gem? This one:
God offering? God is calling people to sight. Without sight people fall into a pit. It's just true.
God offering? God is calling people to sight. Without sight people fall into a pit. It's just true.
Did you answer my question? Lucifer and Satan the same or different?
Sir Doom
Cooler than most of you
I'm assuming that you would have a similar objection to using other religious texts aside from the Bible?
I really have to say, I'm not sure what else you expect people to formulate their opinion on. Is there some kind of non-religious information source on Lucifer? If there is, I'm totally unaware of it.
CynthiaCypher
Well-Known Member
There is no such entity as Lucifer in the Bible.
Isaiah 14:12-15
Revelation 12:9; 20:2
How you have fallen from heaven,
morning star, son of the dawn!
You have been cast down to the earth,
you who once laid low the nations!
13 You said in your heart,
“I will ascend to the heavens;
I will raise my throne
above the stars of God;
I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly,
on the utmost heights of Mount Zaphon.[a]
14 I will ascend above the tops of the clouds;
I will make myself like the Most High.”
15 But you are brought down to the realm of the dead,
to the depths of the pit.
The great dragon was hurled down--that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.
He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time.
Matthew 4:8 - 9
8 Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. 9 “All this I will give you,” he said, “if you will bow down and worship me.”
8 Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. 9 “All this I will give you,” he said, “if you will bow down and worship me.”
Okay, I know the common reply to this, but, why does hell exist in the first place? Why do people end up there?
Often, people respond to the former by saying without it, heaven would be full of chaos - but that is contradictory to saying there is no freewill in heaven. If there is freewill in heaven, heaven could possibly, and most likely, have chaos because the souls that entered are able to commit sin.
The common response I get for the latter is that God doesn't send people there, it's a person's choice to go there. Like holding a gun up to someone's head and saying "You have the freedom to give me your money or the freedom to not give me your money - but I will shoot you if you don't"
Another question that would draw from that response would be - God didn't have to create hell, God didn't have to create a realm of suffering for those who do not follow his rules. The existence of hell, as much as who is decided the fate of hell, is totally on God's hands. He determines who goes and who doesn't.
Now, if you agree with me so far - I really think this proves God to be the evil one. Without God, there'd be no hell.
Probably because he's not a totalitarian communist.