Christians: How do you know Lucifer is evil?

[Rapha]

Okay, I know the common reply to this, but, why does hell exist in the first place? Why do people end up there?

Its basically a permanent prison. This world was for Gods' followers only. Everyone else will be going with the devil and his fallen workmates to hell.

Its a bit like a person with a virus on their computer. Firstly save the good, uncorrupted programs (Christians) and trash the rest to hell. Format the drive if need be - a.k.a Judgement Day or Armageddon in the valley of Megiddo.

Often, people respond to the former by saying without it, heaven would be full of chaos - but that is contradictory to saying there is no freewill in heaven. If there is freewill in heaven, heaven could possibly, and most likely, have chaos because the souls that entered are able to commit sin.

Yahushua knows your perfect path without the need to sin. Would you gladly turn down the opportunity to have a perfect job working for YHWH where everyday is a day of joy ?
No souls can pass through Heavens Gates that still contain sin in their DNA.
Its impossible.

The common response I get for the latter is that God doesn't send people there, it's a person's choice to go there. Like holding a gun up to someone's head and saying "You have the freedom to give me your money or the freedom to not give me your money - but I will shoot you if you don't"

Actually its the sinner that is holding the gun to their head.
Every sinner has a choice.
However, due to the concept of self preservation it makes logical sense for a sinner to put the gun down and allow YHWH to pull the sinner out of the dirt.
People don't because their heads are often stuck in the sand like an ostrich.

Another question that would draw from that response would be - God didn't have to create hell, God didn't have to create a realm of suffering for those who do not follow his rules. The existence of hell, as much as who is decided the fate of hell, is totally on God's hands. He determines who goes and who doesn't.

God created tartarus for sure as it is a prison for the fallen angels and rephaim. God created the Lake of Fire for lucifer and the fallen angels to fall into on Judgement Day.
Sheol (hell) was once a paradise where all spirits would rest once their host body perished. After Jesus rose from the tomb all goodness, paradise and good spirits went with Him to a new paradise.
When a sinner dies they still go to sheol. Its just that now sheol is full of boiling mud pits with worms that never die.
So yes, YHWH created Sheol. However, now sheol is just a torturous miserable hellhole after YHWH removed all goodness from it.

Now, if you agree with me so far - I really think this proves God to be the evil one. Without God, there'd be no hell.

Without God, there would be no life, nothing, zilch.

If lucifer was not such a naughty boy, sheol wouldn't have gone from paradise to hellhole in one day. Prison Tartarus would never have been constructed.

 

[CynthiaCypher]

Isaiah 14:12-15

Revelation 12:9; 20:2

How you have fallen from heaven,
morning star, son of the dawn!
You have been cast down to the earth,
you who once laid low the nations!
13 You said in your heart,
“I will ascend to the heavens;
I will raise my throne
above the stars of God;
I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly,
on the utmost heights of Mount Zaphon.[a]
14 I will ascend above the tops of the clouds;
I will make myself like the Most High.”
15 But you are brought down to the realm of the dead,
to the depths of the pit.

That Isaiah passage when taken in context is obviously about the King of Babylon and says nothing about Lucifer. You are taking the passage literally when it is obviously figurative.

Why are you taking these passages out of context?

 

[savagewind]

That Isaiah passage when taken in context is obviously about the King of Babylon and says nothing about Lucifer. You are taking the passage literally when it is obviously figurative.

Why are you taking these passages out of context?

It is what people do. I am sure you understand.

There was much written about Jesus Christ under the inspiritation of the Holy Spirit. Do you believe when all scripture about Jesus was written before Jesus that it was all "in context"? How could it be?

Lucifer means light bearer. All authority was given Jesus and Jesus is the light. So Lucifer wanting to be light instead of Jesus is Satan.

The Bible is about spiritual matters. What has the king of Babylon have to do with God's will be done?

 

[savagewind]

How can a human king "raise his throne above the stars of God?" Do you not know human kings are about money and sex?

 

[savagewind]

Please name just one who isn't.

 

[savagewind]

Oh and horses too.

 

[CynthiaCypher]

How can a human king "raise his throne above the stars of God?" Do you not know human kings are about money and sex?

I guess from your reading of the Bible the Brides breast most be two fawns and her neck is really an ivory tower.

It is not a literal passage, it is figurative.

Here, so you may learn:

Examples of Figurative Language

Learn it, live it, love it.

 

[savagewind]

I guess from your reading of the Bible the Brides breast most be two fawns and her neck is really an ivory tower.

It is not a literal passage, it is figurative.

Here, so you may learn:

Examples of Figurative Language

Learn it, live it, love it.

WHAT? Oh you are saying the king of Babylon is described as wanting it. I say Earth's kings do not have time to ponder heaven as they are interested in money and sex. Did you see my request? Please name one king who isn't so busy making money, having sex and defending his money and worrying his sex who has time to ponder stuff like Satan does. Please.

 

[savagewind]

Figurative language. Sounds interesting. I should go read up about it and then read Revelations again. Huh?

 

[CynthiaCypher]

Figurative language. Sounds interesting. I should go read up about it and then read Revelations again. Huh?

It would help.

 

[savagewind]

It would help.

What would help?

 

[CynthiaCypher]

What would help?

 

[savagewind]

Shame?

 

[savagewind]

OK Answer me this please. Why does the king of Babylon rate a place in the Holy Word of God?

 

[savagewind]

The Scriputes are for learning. "All scripture is inspired and beneficial for teaching". You believe the king of Babylon has something good to teach me. What is it please?

 

[savagewind]

I am going to troll you as I need some posts. I shall read up on figurative speech if you read up on logic. Deal?

 

[savagewind]

It is not logical that the thoughts of a sinful man not even of the nation of Israel should have his thoughts recorded for all eternity. He is just a man with a very short life. What does he have that I need for my life? Figuratively.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I used to think Satan/Lucifer was "evil", too, before I started looking at the Abrahamic narrative in a more objective light. Most people go along with that idea because that's how they've been socialized. Even most non-believers still believe that Satan is "evil".

 

[Erebus]

Even though it's from a film rather than scripture, I've always liked Al Pacino's rant in The Devil's Advocate. Hits the nail on the head as far as I'm concerned.

Fair warning, there's a bit of swearing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGR4SFOimlk

 

[1137]

Nobody educated on the subject would ever say "Lucifer" is evil.