Christians Only: Is Christianity a Religion or Not?

[Windwalker]

God The Father 100%
God the Son, our self 100%
The Holy Spirit our neighbor 100%

I can't disagree with it.

But our authentic self, the Son of God, is wrong. One Lord to obey, Jesus Christ. One Leader to lead, Jesus Christ. One baptism. To ourselves? No. To Jesus Christ. We are not Jesus Christ.

Why is this wrong? I did not say we are Jesus Christ. Jesus was a man. Christ is a title. So is "Son of God". I have a name too, and it's not Jesus. But I too can be as Jesus and be the Christ as he was. In fact to be the Son of God is our Realized Identity.

I quoted this the other day in another thread but it bears adding him to exactly this point of how and when we are the Son of God, the same as Jesus. To quote from the 14th Century Christian mystic Meister Eckhart something I read from him that I had recently come to realize myself while deep in meditation (his words leaped off the page as it mirrored my recent insights),

"The hearing of God’s Word requires complete self-surrender. He who hears and that which is heard are identical constituents of the eternal Word. What the eternal Father teaches is his own Being, Nature, and Godhead – which he is always revealing through his only begotten Son. He teaches that we are to be identical with him.

To deny one’s self is to be the only begotten Son of God and one who does so has for himself all the properties of that Son. All God’s acts are performed and his teachings conveyed through the Son, to the point that we should be his only begotten Son. And when this is accomplished in God’s sight, he is so fond of us and so fervent that he acts as if his divine Being might be shattered and he himself annihilated if the whole foundations of his Godhead were not revealed to us, together with his nature and being. God makes haste to do this, so that it may be ours as it is his. It is here that God finds joy and rapture in fulfillment and the person who is thus within God’s knowing and love becomes just what God himself is."
​

If we are to be identical with him, are we somehow less? I love how John Martin refers to the Christ up there/us down here teaching as "spiritual apartheid" It denies us our inheritance, in real, practical right here in this life, ways. "We can't be like him", automatically creates our separation we can never then get past. It is a belief that denies Life.

100% is the target to aim for. It is good to aim for it. How many times do you think we actually hit it?

Never if you continue to believe and tell yourself it's not possible. But speaking for myself, the question of how many times am I fully in touch with my Authentic Self? Quite often, actually. It's a processes of integrating that Nature into all states of awareness, a permanent fully Realized Identity. That is a matter of growth through devotion to awakening. Meditation is an indispensable part of this. Less and less I feel myself separate. But through Grace and surrender, we can all awaken.

 

[savagewind]

If we are to be identical with him, are we somehow less?

How can we be identical to him if he is Leader?

Also if we are Christ is Jesus Christ coming back, according to you? According to The Christian Religion he is coming back.

 

[Windwalker]

But what about Jesus' message itself? Do you think that would be a religion in itself?

They are spiritual principles that transcend any and all religions, but can be practiced and realized within them all.

I mean, loving God, loving our neighbors, loving and praying for our enemies, not condemning others, showing mercy, etc. Can we do all of those things without really any of the rituals we have done?

To learn to integrate these, to embody these as living Truth within yourself, does in fact require discipline. Rituals are useful tools to develop conscious awareness of these things, and personal devotional practice helps to realize them in yourself, and then to integrate them. The rituals are incidental, and can be any meaningful form if it facilitates these well for you.

I'd like to clarify that I've always seen my belief as a faith which is can be religious: A religion.

True Religion, with a capital R, is a heart matter. Faith with a capital F, is of the heart.

 

[Windwalker]

How can we be identical to him if he is Leader?

Then we become Leader too. Why do you insist on making him exclusive? Do you wish to keep God at arms length from you?

"Kicking Christ upstairs" is spiritual apartheid. "Christ IN YOU." Where do you imagine that is? In the stomach? The lungs? The entire Christian message is about transformation into the image of Christ. Christ in you. YOU are the light of the world. And so forth. How can we be the light of the world, and not be that very self-same Leader?

Also if we are Christ is Jesus Christ coming back, according to you? According to The Christian Religion he is coming back.

There are many understandings within Christianity what Jesus' second coming means. I don't share the view of a literal, bodily descent in the next decade or two where the fundamentalists all get crowns and Cadillacs for being rigidly insistent in their inflexible beliefs.

But then if you must, again, "Jesus Christ". Who's returning? Jesus? Again, Christ is a title. You could rightly say of any soul how is One with God, as John Christ, Mary Christ, Brian Christ, Susan Christ, etc.

 

[Desert Snake]

We can't deny that the various denominations of Christianity do involve some kinds of rituals. I could name a few, but I think we know what they are. But what about Jesus' message itself? Do you think that would be a religion in itself? I mean, loving God, loving our neighbors, loving and praying for our enemies, not condemning others, showing mercy, etc. Can we do all of those things without really any of the rituals we have done?

I'd like to clarify that I've always seen my belief as a faith which is can be religious: A religion.

The framework of the belief system makes it a religion.
The beliefs, The Bible, this is the framework.

If someone goes outside of that framework, it isn't Christianity, and it isn't necessarily a religion anymore, either.
Basically, every Christian is practicing a religion despite what church they attend(or don't) etc.

After that, we have Denominations(or not), which signify different peculiarities among the broader context(Christianity).

 

[Vouthon]

But what about Jesus' message itself? Do you think that would be a religion in itself? I mean, loving God, loving our neighbors, loving and praying for our enemies, not condemning others, showing mercy, etc. Can we do all of those things without really any of the rituals we have done?

I'd like to clarify that I've always seen my belief as a faith which is can be religious: A religion.

Interesting question Christine

I would say yes, personally. Think of the examples that you give - they are all ethical injunctions but Jesus did not merely teach morals. He preached a conception of reality and formed a community of followers with a leadership structure under the apostles and their own central rituals - baptism, the Eucharist, laying on of hands, confession of sin - that was designed to enable that distinctive 'worldview' to spread and to pass on to future generations.

This worldview recognised the validity of the Tanakh - it assumed the truth of the Jewish dispensation with its rituals - in addition to envisioning a new scripture that would be composed by the apostles and their immediate converts, in tandem with the oral tradition passed down from Jesus himself.

Christianity was thus, from the very beginning, a religion and a way of life.

 

[InChrist]

"Kicking Christ upstairs" is spiritual apartheid. "Christ IN YOU." Where do you imagine that is? In the stomach? The lungs? The entire Christian message is about transformation into the image of Christ. Christ in you. YOU are the light of the world. And so forth. How can we be the light of the world, and not be that very self-same Leader?

I think the scriptures indicate we are lights to the world only in Jesus Christ and through Him exclusively and His resurrection power, not our own strength or self ability. I believe you are imagining a "Christ' of your own creation and not the real Jesus Christ revealed in the scriptures.

But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. For if he who comes preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or if you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted—you may well put up with it! (2 Cor. 11:3-4)

There are many understandings within Christianity what Jesus' second coming means. I don't share the view of a literal, bodily descent in the next decade or two where the fundamentalists all get crowns and Cadillacs for being rigidly insistent in their inflexible beliefs.

But then if you must, again, "Jesus Christ". Who's returning? Jesus? Again, Christ is a title. You could rightly say of any soul how is One with God, as John Christ, Mary Christ, Brian Christ, Susan Christ, etc.

[/quote]

There is nothing in the Bible about Cadillacs, so I guess that is just your way of attempting to spiritually elevate yourself and scorn anyone who believes in the fundamental doctrines of the Bible, including the literal return of Jesus Christ. I believe the scriptures are clear and rigid as you mockingly assert because accuracy in spiritual truth is eternally important. The message of Jesus Christ and of the scriptures is that all humans including, John, Mary, Brian, and Susan are sinners in need of a Savior and that Savior is exclusively Jesus Christ alone, who also will Personally return to the earth.

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.(John 14:6)

Jesus said, “I am. And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven.” (Mark 14:62)

Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen. (Rev. 1:7)

 

[John Martin]

Other words other than perfect can certainly be used, the word "perfect" has come to mean something that is done correctly in our usage of (humankind's usage) and I can see how that wouldn't fit. Jesus used the word "Holy". It means, they way I used it, what you have said in your reply: Fullness, Wholeness, Holiness.

I used that the word "perfect" because it was from the verse in the translation I used.

Thank you, ChristineES.

 

[ZooGirl02]

I definitely believe that Christianity is a religion. Why some Christians don't believe it is a religion really makes no sense to me. Yes, an essential part of Christianity is having a relationship with God but that doesn't mean that it's not a religion in my opinion.

 

[Desert Snake]

I definitely believe that Christianity is a religion. Why some Christians don't believe it is a religion really makes no sense to me. Yes, an essential part of Christianity is having a relationship with God but that doesn't mean that it's not a religion in my opinion.

Agreed, It's a 'religion' in any form it takes, the mere fact of Scriptural adherence makes it so.

 

[Windwalker]

I think the scriptures indicate we are lights to the world only in Jesus Christ and through Him exclusively and His resurrection power, not our own strength or self ability. I believe you are imagining a "Christ' of your own creation and not the real Jesus Christ revealed in the scriptures.

What I bolded is what I believe. It's not through our own strength and ability, in the manner in which we try to attain, achieve, or posses a thing. It is only through self-surrender, we find our true Self, that which is Christ in you. All we do is get out of the way. And then, when filled by that Love, YOU are the light of the world, just as Jesus said, "I and my Father, are One". It's you, just as it was Jesus in relation to the Father. No difference.

There is nothing in the Bible about Cadillacs, so I guess that is just your way of attempting to spiritually elevate yourself and scorn anyone who believes in the fundamental doctrines of the Bible, including the literal return of Jesus Christ.

No, but according to fundamentalists, it's all about them and their salvation, their paradise home and blessings of God. I was being sarcastic about the Cadillac, because it is part and parcel with the whole getting God's special favor and blessings gospel, and it sounded cool with crowns. My point was to point out how utterly missing the point a narcissistic focus is with the Gospel message of self-surrender! I don't see that as spiritually elevating myself, but legitimately critical of unspiritual practices, such as when Jesus scorned the Pharisees and overthrew the money tables in the temple. I suppose one could call that spiritual pride too. So be it then.

I believe the scriptures are clear and rigid as you mockingly assert because accuracy in spiritual truth is eternally important. The message of Jesus Christ and of the scriptures is that all humans including, John, Mary, Brian, and Susan are sinners in need of a Savior and that Savior is exclusively Jesus Christ alone, who also will Personally return to the earth.

I am not mocking the scriptures. I am deriding bad interpretations of it. And yes, we are all sinners. But we can be made whole and be free of sin with the living Christ within us. Right?

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.(John 14:6)

Amen. And when we have the Life within us, We are the Way, the Truth, and the Life. You don't see that? How can we have that Life within us, and not be? Are you saying that isn't Christ in us?

Jesus said, “I am. And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven.” (Mark 14:62)

Why does heaven have water molecules that form clouds? Are we talking our atmosphere here? Apparently Jesus must be speaking symbolically, not literally.

Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen. (Rev. 1:7)

So, this will be televised on global stations, and all parts of the world will be awake watching their T.V.s at the same time of day/night when he returns? And we have tribes in the world today? Which tribe do you belong to? I've done extensive genealogial research on my family tree, and for the love of me I see no tribal references in there. Does this mean the Native Americas will mourn? I'm very confused. :sad:

Perhaps this too is symbolic language and not meant to be taken literally? Yes, I'm pretty sure it cannot, try as hard as we may, take it literally.

 

[TheScholar]

Yes, it is a religion. We worship a god. We have our own set of rituals, and we a belief system. Christianity is the prime example of a religion.

 

[Nadia Faiazova]

Religion is the form of worship. If Christians whom you know practice what their (as they claim) Lord Jesus taught, then their beliefs are Christian and based on what Jesus' teachings were based on- the Holy Scriptures.