Christians: What does Jesus mean by worshipping God "in spirit and in truth"?

[Niatero]

It can't be any kind of temple worship. What else is called "worship" in the Bible, that Jesus could have meant by worshipping in spirit and in truth?

(later) Sorry, I forgot to quote the verse.

But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

- John 4:24 KJV

 

[Nakosis]

It can't be any kind of temple worship. What else is called "worship" in the Bible, that Jesus could have meant by worshipping in spirit and in truth?

I've no idea what "spirit" means except non-material. How would one go about non-material worship?

NVM, I think I figured out the answer. You worship the non-material, i.e. non-existent.

So you worship both the material and non-material.

 

[Niatero]

I've no idea what "spirit" means except non-material. How would one go about non-material worship?

NVM, I think I figured out the answer. You worship the non-material, i.e. non-existent.

Thanks for reminding me to specify in the title who my question is for.

 

[Brickjectivity]

It can't be any kind of temple worship. What else is called "worship" in the Bible, that Jesus could have meant by worshipping in spirit and in truth?

Very controversial question outside of the catholics.

 

[Brickjectivity]

The phrase comes from the gospel of John and is not in any other place in the canon. Since John coins his own terms, and since John has figurative imagery its a good idea to consider this phrase to be part of John's peculiar speech and to place it into his scheme. What is 'Spirit' in John? What else does John say about 'Truth'? John treats these terms differently than other authors do. For example John chapter 15 talks about the Advocate and Truth where the Advocate is another description of the Spirit.

[Jhn 15:1-6, 26 NIV] 1 "I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. 2 He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful. 3 You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. 4 Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me. 5 "I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6 If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. ... 26 "When the Advocate comes, whom I will send to you from the Father--the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father--he will testify about me.​

 

[Brickjectivity]

What is John's scheme? He begins by describing Jesus ministry and John the Baptist's ministry as a creation complete with 'In the beginning' and a division of light from dark. We can refer to Genesis as a model for this imagery, and prominent in there is 'Spirit'. In Genesis the Spirit of the LORD changes the waters to create Israel. Out of the water comes dry land and sky, and when John talks about the spirit in his book he is borrowing this spirit. The original Greek language uses the term 'Pneuma' which means 'Breath' in imitation of the Hebrew in Genesis which is a similar word. It is a creative breath, and it creates. The spirit in John is a creative breath just like the spirit in Genesis is. Now a question arises: "What (in this context) does John mean to worship in spirit and in truth?"

This is where John 15 helps, because it calls the creative spirit 'The Advocate' which unlocks how he is thinking about it. John is a catholic book, and the predominant question it deals with is how to add of lots of non-Jewish people to Abraham without circumcising them. They need an advocate: someone to sponsor them. Another NT author (James) refers to something he calls the 'Spirit of adoption' which cries within the person 'Father!' I'd say this is what John is referring to; however John focuses on saying that we must stay in the vine, worship in the spirit. There is an advocate (the spirit), however John also quotes Jesus saying "I am the vine, and you are the branches." Most likely this refers to remaining in fellowship with other Christians. Many other NT authors talk about this.

 

[Brickjectivity]

What does John mean when he talks about worship? That is controversial, too. I'd say he means serving others. Many people would say it refers to other things like participating in sermons and in singing or in various other activities. Some people believe lifting hands is worship or praying to God is.

 

[PearlSeeker]

John is all about believing in Jesus and his words and keep in love/righteousness. Whoever is doing this honors and believes his Father who sent him and receives the Spirit and eternal life. Some context from GofJohn (emphasis added);

John3​

31 He [Jesus] who comes from above is above all. He who is of the earth belongs to the earth and speaks in an earthly way. He who comes from heaven is above all.​

32 He bears witness to what he has seen and heard, yet no one receives his testimony.​

33 Whoever receives his testimony sets his seal to this, that God is true.​

John 6​

63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.​

John 7​

38 Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, 'Out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.'"​

39 Now this he said about the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were to receive... ​

John 14​

15 "If you love me, you will keep my commandments.​

16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever,​

17 even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you.​

John 15​

12 "This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you.​

John 18​

37 For this purpose I was born and for this purpose I have come into the world--to bear witness to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth listens to my voice.​

John 20​

30 Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book;​

31 but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name .​

 

[PearlSeeker]

What does John mean when he talks about worship? That is controversial, too. I'd say he means serving others. Many people would say it refers to other things like participating in sermons and in singing or in various other activities. Some people believe lifting hands is worship or praying to God is.

I agree. John is not centered on any rituals and immersion in emotions.

 

[Niatero]

John is all about believing in Jesus and his words and keep in love/righteousness. Whoever is doing this honors and believes his Father who sent him and receives the Spirit and eternal life.

That's what you think Jesus means when He says. "But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him"?

 

[PearlSeeker]

Also Paul:

Romans 12:1
I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship.

 

[Niatero]

What does John mean when he talks about worship? That is controversial, too. I'd say he means serving others.

That seems likely to me too. At least that's part of it.

 

[Niatero]

Also Paul:

Romans 12:1
I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship.

That is an absolute winner. Thanks.

 

[Tomef]

It can't be any kind of temple worship. What else is called "worship" in the Bible, that Jesus could have meant by worshipping in spirit and in truth?

(later) Sorry, I forgot to quote the verse.

- John 4:24 KJV

I always took that to mean something like from the heart, in a pure and natural way, by the spirit of the law as opposed to the letter.

 

[PearlSeeker]

I always took that to mean something like from the heart, in a pure and natural way, by the spirit of the law as opposed to the letter.

Yes, spiritual worship is purity of heart. The way we live from the heart (daily offering of love) is the primary worship. It's not that other forms of worship are without value but without spiritual worship every other worship is in vain. Actually it's hypocritical.

Matthew 23
23 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cumin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.
24 You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.
25 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence.
26 Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.
27 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of the bones of the dead and everything unclean.
28 In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.

Matthew 15:8
These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me.

1 John 4
20 If anyone says, "I love God," and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannot love God whom he has not seen.

 

[wellwisher]

It can't be any kind of temple worship. What else is called "worship" in the Bible, that Jesus could have meant by worshipping in spirit and in truth?

(later) Sorry, I forgot to quote the verse.

- John 4:24 KJV

Truth is not what others tell you to believe with words; memorize and repeat. Truth goes beyond the words. Truth is also connected to coming to these bottom line conclusions, based on direct experience.

As an analogy, say you live in labyrinth of caves. One day you are told of a bright light called the sun, that lights the world outside the caves. This is true, but it is not the truth to you, until you see it for yourself. Before you see it for yourself, you have to depend on your imagination, to fill in the blanks of the truth; is it really there and what does it really look like?

So, to seek the truth, you work your way through the many paths of the caves, and find your way outside. You finally see the sun and how everything is so bright and colorful. Now you have the full truth. What was true in words is no longer only an imaginary rendition of the truth. Now it is a genuine truth to you. Truth is very personal; brain feedback.

Spiritual truth is not about materials things, which need the sensory systems, to see the full truth; seeing the sun. Rather the experiences of spiritual things, use the brain in other ways, to gain insides the mind experiences, that reach your initiative core, like any experience; spiritual truths. Faith is about making yourself receptive, to what is true in words, so you can experience the truth.

Many people learn what is true in school, but they never reach the truth. This can make people argumentative or feel a need to control speech, since there is still a layer of imagination, that is not part of the truth. The words alone are not quite enough. Jesus was suggesting self reflection of what is true, and what is the unfiltered truth.

 

[Anthony H Miller]

Wellwisher,

To worship in spirit is to worship with your voice. This would include singing songs of praise, prayer, and anything having to do with bringing honor and glory to God using ones voice. Your words are spirit.
To worship in truth is to do those things commanded of us like loving one another. Living a life as close to the commandments of don't lie, don't steal etc,etc.
I would invite you and others to view the ongoing religious debate between Anthony H Miller and Harel13. Look under religious then spiritual debates then under threads.

 

[Kathryn]

I believe that prayer is communication and worship is adoration and reverence for a diety. So you can worship through prayer but you don't have to - they aren't the same thing.

 

[Tinkerpeach]

Yeah it’s not really that confusing.

Think of having team spirit for whatever team you are rooting for. It means you get behind it, support it, go that extra mile like wearing jerseys and going to all the games and stuff like that.

Just replace your sports team with God.

Worship in truth is obviously following what we are commanded to do.

 

[Anthony H Miller]

In reference to Romans 12:1. It is imperative that scripture be quoted accurately. If you reference the original Greek you will not find the mention of spiritual worship. The correct wording is reasonable service. Much confusion enters in when these things happen. Service is a work and would be considered as part of worshiping in truth.