Christians: Whatare your views on the Rapture of the Christian Church?

[sooda]

If I may say, your right.

Alot of Christians are being taught about a rapture all because their Pastors, Preaches have no clue or idea what the book of Revelation is about themselves.

Christ Jesus given in the book of Revelation the last Prophecy that is to happen, that when this last prophecy happens the tribulation is over and then Christ Jesus returns.

Christ Jesus can not return until the last Prophecy happens first. By the time the last Prophecy happens, the tribulation is over.
So what good is the Rapture going to do, when the last Prophecy happens brings the end to the tribulation and then Christ Jesus returns and not until the last Prophecy happens first.

When did some churches begin to teach TWO tribulations?

Jesus told them to flee to the mountains .. and they didn.

 

[Faithofchristian]

Do you know what the Scofield heresy is?

There's your problem, you listen to man's teachings and not Christ Jesus teachings.

Do you what Christ Jesus said in his word.
That the great tribulation will effect the whole earth

 

[Faithofchristian]

When did some churches begin to teach TWO tribulations?

Jesus told them to flee to the mountains .. and they didn.

Had you back up to Matthew 24 verse 15,
Jesus speaking to his elect down thru the ages, that when they shall see the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the Prophet stand in the holy place.

Then they are to flee into the mountains.
And not until the elect of Jesus sees the Abomination of desolation stand in the holy place in Jerusalem.

 

[sooda]

There's your problem, you listen to man's teachings and not Christ Jesus teachings.

Do you what Christ Jesus said in his word.
That the great tribulation will effect the whole earth

The rapture as espoused by Edward Irving 1825 and Margaret McDonald 1830 and the so-called dispensationalist theory espoused by John Nelson Darby and Cyrus Scofield-author of the Scofield Reference Bible is a lie and bad theology..

No the tribulation was LOCAL just like Noah's flood. That's why the Christians did as Jesus told them to do and fled to Pella.

 

[Faithofchristian]

When did some churches begin to teach TWO tribulations?

Jesus told them to flee to the mountains .. and they didn.

That's because those churches listen to their Pastors and Preachers before they listen what Christ Jesus has to say in his book of Revelation.

 

[sooda]

Had you back up to Matthew 24 verse 15,
Jesus speaking to his elect down thru the ages, that when they shall see the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the Prophet stand in the holy place.

Then they are to flee into the mountains.
And not until the elect of Jesus sees the Abomination of desolation stand in the holy place in Jerusalem.

the Abomination of Desolation and the Man of Lawlessness.

Look at how Gessius Florus, the Roman procurator over Judea in AD 66, attempted to rob the temple of all of its imageless coinage and force the Jews to bring in coins with Nero's image engraved on them.

This would have been an abomination of the temple, and easily explains why the Zealots and Priests revolted.

 

[sooda]

That's because those churches listen to their Pastors and Preachers before they listen what Christ Jesus has to say in his book of Revelation.

Lots of pastors are preaching the Scofield Heresy.. It was made popular by Hal Lindsey and taught at the Dallas Theological Seminary and the Moody Institute.

 

[Faithofchristian]

The rapture as espoused by Edward Irving 1825 and Margaret McDonald 1830 and the so-called dispensationalist theory espoused by John Nelson Darby and Cyrus Scofield-author of the Scofield Reference Bible is a lie and bad theology..

No the tribulation was LOCAL just like Noah's flood. That's why the Christians did as Jesus told them to do and fled to Pella.

Well there you go listing to man's teachings and not the teachings of Christ Jesus.

Don't you think, That since Christ Jesus gave the book of Revelation, that Christ Jesus would know exactly what is to happen.
And seeing Christ Jesus spoke those words in the books of Matthew 24,
Mark 13 and Luke 21, That Christ Jesus would know more than of them put together.
It seems you would rather follow man's teachings, Than the teachings of Christ Jesus.

 

[sooda]

Well there you go listing to man's teachings and not the teachings of Christ Jesus.

Don't you think, That since Christ Jesus gave the book of Revelation, that Christ Jesus would know exactly what is to happen.
And seeing Christ Jesus spoke those words in the books of Matthew 24,
Mark 13 and Luke 21, That Christ Jesus would know more than of them put together.
It seems you would rather follow man's teachings, Than the teachings of Christ Jesus.

If you believe in the Rapture you are promoting the Scofield Heresy.

 

[Faithofchristian]

Lots of pastors are preaching the Scofield Heresy.. It was made popular by Hal Lindsey and taught at the Dallas Theological Seminary and the Moody Institute.

Well your doing the same thing,
Teaching man's teachings and not the teachings of Christ Jesus.

 

[Faithofchristian]

If you believe in the Rapture you are promoting the Scofield Heresy.

What did I just say, I said the rapture is a false teaching of man's.

That Christ Jesus given in his book of Revelation the last Prophecy that happens, brings the end to the tribulation and the return of Christ Jesus.

Christ Jesus can not return until the last Prophecy happens first.
That when the last Prophecy happens, the tribulation is over and Christ Jesus returns.

And not until the last Prophecy of Revelation happens first.

 

[sooda]

I see. Thanks.

Most Catholics I've met reject Riberas ideas on the subject. Typically we believe that a lot of these prophetic events already tool place during the time when the Jewish Zealots began killing moderate Jews.

Of course they do.. This heresy didn't catch on until the Dust Bowl years and the Great Depression.. Scofield published his bible in 1909.

 

[sooda]

The Great Tribulation is a time of war, famine, earthquakes, persecution, and death. Jesus describes it in Matthew 24 and Luke 21 as a horrible period of time with much suffering, then he prophesies that the end will come. Sounds like something that most would want to avoid! Thankfully, Jesus goes on to describe how his followers can avoid the Tribulation:

…then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath.
Matthew 24:16-20

Jesus was giving those who would listen a special advanced warning. For some reason, this passage has been used to teach a belief in something called the Rapture.

Telling us we need to be fleeing to the mountains, not be wasting time getting our things, the mention of winter making travel more difficult— these tips don’t sound like the Rapture. That is because the Rapture is not a thing. Rather, Jesus is describing specific instructions for people living in Palestine at the time.

The Tribulation Already Happened

The Great Tribulation described by Jesus is not a 7-year global tribulation that many have been taught (this belief comes from a misunderstanding of Daniel 9:24-27).

The Tribulation was the destruction of Jerusalem and it already happened in 70 AD.

Jesus makes it emphatically clear that the tribulation would happen within 40 years when he says, “this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened” (Matthew 24:34).

Jesus made this statement to his disciples who were alive and present with him at the time. They were the primary audience Jesus was addressing. He was telling his disciples that their generation would still be alive to see all this. Everything described in Matthew 24 and Luke 21 has already happened. This is very good news because of what Jesus says after describing this period of tribulation:

For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.
Matthew 24:21

Since Jesus claimed that things will never be as horrible as they were, that means that the worst this world has seen has already happened. We don’t have to anticipate things getting worse. We are left with the promise that the best is yet to come.

Throughout Church history most Christians believed the great tribulation had already happened.1 It was a horrible event that was well documented by first century historians. Still not convinced? Keep reading to see how everything that Jesus prophesied came to pass between the years 66-70 AD.

Back to the Future Tribulation: PART 1 – Rival Nations​

 

[sooda]

Well there you go listing to man's teachings and not the teachings of Christ Jesus.

Don't you think, That since Christ Jesus gave the book of Revelation, that Christ Jesus would know exactly what is to happen.
And seeing Christ Jesus spoke those words in the books of Matthew 24,
Mark 13 and Luke 21, That Christ Jesus would know more than of them put together.
It seems you would rather follow man's teachings, Than the teachings of Christ Jesus.

The Rapture is man's teachings.. See Scofield heresy.

 

[Faithofchristian]

The Rapture is man's teachings.. See Scofield heresy.

Your right about that

 

[sooda]

I see. Thanks.

Most Catholics I've met reject Riberas ideas on the subject. Typically we believe that a lot of these prophetic events already tool place during the time when the Jewish Zealots began killing moderate Jews.

I think they are completely separate.. The priest's motives were purely political.

Martin Luther began teaching the Pope was the anti-Christ and Rome was the Whore of Babylon which was very bad theology even then.

Ribera's invention was to counter that Protestant teaching, but it didn't catch on until the American Zionist Samuel Untermyer hired the felon Cyrus Scofield to write the Scofield Bible in 1909.

 

[sooda]

I see. Thanks.

Most Catholics I've met reject Riberas ideas on the subject. Typically we believe that a lot of these prophetic events already tool place during the time when the Jewish Zealots began killing moderate Jews.

That would be preterist or partial preterist. Studying first century history helps when you are being bombarded by the Rapture Ready crowd.

 

[Faithofchristian]

That would be preterist or partial preterist. Studying first century history helps when you are being bombarded by the Rapture Ready crowd.

In the speaking about Martin Luther, known as the Father of the Reformation.

God had planted a true prophetic Vine which had been accepted by millions of people and all the rest of the reformers for 400 years.
Luther and the Reformation fathers taught that the beast power with the mark, mentioned of in Revelation 13 and 14, had
been active in the pass and would continue to be active in the future until Jesus comes.

In order to counteract this true prophetic Vine, A Jesuit priest named Ribera, who studied the prophecies for 19 years, was requested by church leadership to publish a book in 1580, circulated it in Europe, and won back many of the Balkan States and part of Germany to the church.
He taught that the beast power with the mark had not been active in the past, was not active in the present, and would not be active in the future until the end of the age.

The Jews would then be converted and the Book of Revelation, from Chapters 4 through 18, would then be fulfilled.
Ribera also taught that the Jews would be the remnant who keep God's Commandments.
They would know what the Mark of the beast is, encounter the AntiChrist, give the warning message of the Judgement, and the fall of Babylon - thus taking away from the last Generation the book of Revelation from Chapters 4 through 18.

To further the true Vine, during the 1830's, Margaret McDonald, a member of the Brethren Church in Glasgow, Scotland,
went into a trance at a church meeting and said that Christ Jesus could come tonight.

Then it was further taught that, if
Christ Jesus did come tonight, this would be the "end of the age" at which time the church would be "Secretly" raptured"

Then those remaining upon Planet Earth would be taught the book of Revelation
Prophecies, from Chapters 4 through 18, by converted Jews, thus supporting Ribera's interpretation.

 

[sooda]

In the speaking about Martin Luther, known as the Father of the Reformation.

God had planted a true prophetic Vine which had been accepted by millions of people and all the rest of the reformers for 400 years.
Luther and the Reformation fathers taught that the beast power with the mark, mentioned of in Revelation 13 and 14, had
been active in the pass and would continue to be active in the future until Jesus comes.

In order to counteract this true prophetic Vine, A Jesuit priest named Ribera, who studied the prophecies for 19 years, was requested by church leadership to publish a book in 1580, circulated it in Europe, and won back many of the Balkan States and part of Germany to the church.
He taught that the beast power with the mark had not been active in the past, was not active in the present, and would not be active in the future until the end of the age.

The Jews would then be converted and the Book of Revelation, from Chapters 4 through 18, would then be fulfilled.
Ribera also taught that the Jews would be the remnant who keep God's Commandments.
They would know what the Mark of the beast is, encounter the AntiChrist, give the warning message of the Judgement, and the fall of Babylon - thus taking away from the last Generation the book of Revelation from Chapters 4 through 18.

To further the true Vine, during the 1830's, Margaret McDonald, a member of the Brethren Church in Glasgow, Scotland,
went into a trance at a church meeting and said that Christ Jesus could come tonight.

Then it was further taught that, if
Christ Jesus did come tonight, this would be the "end of the age" at which time the church would be "Secretly" raptured"

Then those remaining upon Planet Earth would be taught the book of Revelation
Prophecies, from Chapters 4 through 18, by converted Jews, thus supporting Ribera's interpretation.

Ribera created the futurist version to combat Luther's accusation that the Pope was the antichrist and the Whore of Babylon was Rome.

Luther had a low view of Hebrews, James, Jude, and the Revelation, and so when he published his New Testament in 1522 he placed these books apart at the end.

In his Preface to Hebrews, which comes first in the series, he says, "Up to this point we have had to do with the true and certain chief books of the New Testament. The four which follow have from ancient times had a different reputation."

Luther's criticism of these books will perhaps be found disgraceful and even shocking to modern Christians, but it should be pointed out that his attitude was not so shocking in the context of the late Middle Ages.

continued

Luther's Antilegomena

 

[sooda]

@ faithofchristian

According to Luther:

I say what I feel. I miss more than one thing in this book, and it makes me consider it to be neither apostolic nor prophetic.

First and foremost, the apostles do not deal with visions, but prophesy in clear and plain words, as do Peter and Paul, and Christ in the gospel. For it befits the apostolic office to speak clearly of Christ and his deeds, without images and visions.

Moreover there is no prophet in the Old Testament, to say nothing of the New, who deals so exclusively with visions and images.

For myself, I think it approximates the Fourth Book of Esdras; 8 I can in no way detect that the Holy Spirit produced it.

Luther's Antilegomena